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Whether it is public or private does not matter.
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<p>wait, wait, wait. you just got done saying what a huge advantage Private schools have in financial aid situations. And now you are directly contradicting that by saying that it "does not matter." huh?</p>
<p>^^ He's talking about the quality of education and recognition/prestige, not financial aid situations.</p>
<p>"The State of Michigan contributed $320M do the general fund of UM for fiscal 2007-08. That represented 24% of the general fund revenues of UM. Total enrollment at UM (undergraduate and graduate) is about 41,000, so that represents about $7,800 per student. Those are rough numbers, but I wanted to get some idea of what the general landscape was."</p>
<p>that is the general fund, it is only for the daily running of the university. It does NOT include the constructions of new academic buildings. So it is less than 24%. Even if it is 7800 according to your calculation, the gap between IS and OOS is way more than 7800, that means more of the non-state money goes to IS than OOS, which is ridiculous.</p>
<p>Alexandre: On average, Michigan (along with Berkeley) is not a good deal when compared to some of its peers, like UVA and UNC. UVA and UNC are both known for giving really good financial aid packages, meanwhile Michigan, not so much. The average student would save between ~35-45k by going to UNC or UVA instead of Michigan.</p>
<p>How did I get my math...
Michigan average oos cost...32.5k
UNC average oos cost...21.5k
UVA average oos cost...24k</p>
<p>UNC = {(32.5)-(21.5)} X 4 = 44
UVA = {(32.5)-(24)} X 4 = 34</p>
<p>Alexandre: It seems like in every other post I've seen you make, you are arguing with someone. Stop arguing. Besides, you're not that good at it.</p>
<p>As for Sam Lee and Post #31...Why did you post that? Michigan residents, the majority of the time, pay less to attend Michigan than OOS students, so listing the average amount of debt for graduates means absolutely nothing to me. Now if you listed the average amount of debt for graduates from oos, then I'd say good job.</p>
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He's talking about the quality of education and recognition/prestige, not financial aid situations.
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That's pretty pointless, seeing that this thread is titled "OOS Tuition," and all my posts have been on that topic, not about prestige.</p>
<p>bearcats, I wasn't making a value judgment about what was right or wrong, just trying to put some numbers around the discussion. I know these numbers are very broad, and I understand what the general fund covers, but I think this information gives a general idea of what the state funds. It is too difficult to get precise here about what the calculation would be. For instance, you mentioned the building fund. The building fund is supported by an allocation for room & board, which is the same for both instate and OOS students. In addition, the building fund is supported by specific endowments designed to financially facilitate the construction of new buildings. So I think an attempt to draw an inference about the relative value of other funds to instate vs. OOS students is well beyond the scope of this discussion.</p>
<p>Also, you will note that I included grad students in the total enrollment which scews the numbers for state support number downward. Generally, the difference between instate and OOS tuition in grad school is less than undergrad. For instance, OOS tuition is $2,000 higher than instate in the law school and $5,000 more in the business school.</p>
<p>lol I agree with Bearcats, the gap between IS tuition and OOS tuition is really a big load of bs.</p>
<p>Of course, in the end there are two very straightforward solutions to the OOS tuition problem:
a. Have your family move to Michigan, or
b. Go to state school in your state of residence
Given the terrible mess that Michigan's economy is in, it's nice to know that there is one benefit to being a resident of the great State of Michigan.
ps Our politicians are so inept here that we totally disenfranchised our vote in the Democratic primary. Good luck with Michigan getting any help if a Dem is elected...</p>
<p>SBDad, without the international students and OOS students, U of M will just be another ordinary state U. just in general and on average, OOS and international students are of higher calibre than instate. Last year, 80% of the summa cumlaude's are OOS/international.</p>
<p>You're also forgetting that Michigan has a much larger endowment than any of these schools to spend on scholarships and students. UM has a 7.5 billion dollar endowment vs 1.5 billion for UW madison, 2 for ucla, 2.5 for uc berkeley, and 2 for UNC. The only public university that even comes close is virginia with 5 billion.</p>
<p>SBDad, with all due respect that is a pretty sad response. Where do you think the University of Michigan would be without it's OOS/International students? I think it is fair for OOS/International students to complain about the gap between IS and OOS tuition seeing how much they contribute to the overall prestige of UM.</p>
<p>I agree with SBDad, and I am international. Michigan is a state university, and owes a great deal of its current success to the past support it got from the state.</p>
<p>This said, I agree that the state is currently providing only a small fraction (15% or so) of Michigan's operating budget and the University should respond by decreasing the in-state population from 65% to a figure that is more reflective of the state's contribution to its current operations. I think a 25% in-state population would be fair. Today, 75% (not 35%) of Michigan's undergraduate student body should be OOS/International.</p>
<p>But I would hate it if Michigan were any cheaper for OOS students. Can you imagine if the Four Seasons or the Peninsula started charging Marriott or Hyatt rates for their rooms? Or if one could dine at Per Se or the French Laundry for the same price as they could at Applebees or Chilis? Or if one could buy a Patek Philippe or a Mercedes Benz at the same price as a Seiko or Honda? Yikes! People will always associate quality with expense. That is why the four most expensive state universities, Cal, Michigan, UCLA and UVa also happen to be the best state universities. </p>
<p>One area I think we can all agree on is that Michigan should do more to meet the financial needs of their OOS applicants. Currently (and on average), Michigan meets roughly 80%-90% of their demonstrated needs. That's not good enough. On average, Michigan students are still graduating with the same debt as students graduating from their peer institutions, including Cal, Cornell, Northwestern, Penn and UVa. However, that is good enough (of any of those universities). Michigan, like any other top university, should continue to develop its endowment to help support its less fortunate students. </p>
<p>I also think it is time that Michigan develop an aid fund for international students. Currently, Michigan does not provide aid or scholarships to international students. That has got to change, and fast.</p>
<p>SBDad, you have your point. Basically I agree the tuition for IS students in general should be lower than OOS student for a public state university. No matter what, state still provides the funding, and those fund are coming from the in state tax payer. Just like every other state university have IS and OOS tuition. But in order to attract top clibar students from all over the nation, you have to some how lower the tuition gap, other wise there is no incencitive of OOS to even apply UofM. </p>
<p>I live in NJ, I know some of friends kids they both chose to out of state universities while they can free ride to Rutgus (don't know what got into these kids in NJ, all those teens try desperately get out of state), one chose to University of Connectic, the other chose to Penn State. While both are OOS, but somehow they got tuition cut basically pay as much as an IS student. And from what I read and heard both universities ranking are in a up swing.</p>
<p>Alexandre, I don't see there is any more reason for those state university to provide scholarships or fa to internationals than an OOS. After all more or less these schools are funded by tax money. And the earning of endowment are tax exception which, imo, more or less part of it should go toward OOS (who are US residents). </p>
<p>I know UofM does provide some scholar ship to OOS, but it is need-based. Not merit based.</p>
<p>Heck, the % of IS students should be even lower than 25% if you want to make it proportional to how much the state of Michigan is contributing to UM.</p>
<p>I know FUTBIL, but you cannot discount history. Michigan would not be where it is today were it not for the century and a half of state funding.</p>
<p>I understand Alexandre, and I am not disregarding Michigan's role in the advancement of the university. However, I think even with the history, the IS student percentage should still reflect what the state of Michigan is contributing now. Also, having 70-80% of OOS students would, I think, dramatically increase the reputation of UM.</p>
<p>Yea, having more OOS student would end all of troubles with the "anti-state school" squad. And no more people thinking that any random school is better than Michigan if their average SAT is higher than 1300. And now we got these Florida people thinking UF is just as good as Michigan, something needs to be done.</p>
<p>I completely agree. I think Michigan should reduce its overall size from 25,000 undergrads to 20,000 undergrads. 25,000 is just too much for any university to handle. I think Michigan's undergraduate student population should be 25% in-state, 65% OOS and 10% international. The descrease in size would allow for smaller classes and more individualized attention. Michigan already does a great job given its size, but it can do better. And the increase in OOS and international students would give Michigan a more widespread appeal, although given its size, Michigan already enjoys a tremendous reputation in most major cities, including Chicago, DC, LA, NYC and San Francisco as well as internationally.</p>
<p>it's too bad these changes will never happen..</p>
<p>I would not go so far as to say never. However, it will take a long time to get there.</p>