<p>hmm … I think my family approaches this topic very differently than most families on CC.</p>
<p>We ignore colleges when we talk to our kids about the course selections in HS. To be fair we have discussed that colleges are looking for the best grades in the toughest classes … however we focus on our kids finding the classes that interest them. will challlenge them, and will help them grow, and that they will do at least OK in. That may lead to AP courses and in may not. From our perspective the college thing will take care of itself when the time comes and our kids course selections will likely self-select them into the appropriate tier colleges when the time comes. We’re through course selections with 2 of our 3 and it has worked out fine so far … and frankly, IMO better than if we had pushed them into the highest courses we could have from the get go (one has grown into her/his academic potential). We’ve been lucky that the choices our kids have discussed have been in the rhealm of reasonable choices (an honors course which could have been an AP … one easy elective when there could have been another tougher course) and not proposed schedules that are totally non-challenging and a waste of their potential.</p>
<p>PS - Our kid’s HS is not a big fan of APs either … it is one of the top public high schools in Mass but a student on the regular track (not skipping years of subjects) can not take nearly as many APs as many of the kids on CC do … and the placment record of the students is top notch.</p>
<p>S2 made the decision of which APs to take based on his strengths, his interest level, and what he planned to pursue. He will graduate with several ‘weighted’ classes, however technically 6 AP’s. I believe this will be on the lower end of the students graduating at his rank (meaning no grade inflation for him). There are some students that do manage to get nearly twice that. But that is a rarity. Students are offered 1 in their sophomore year so they are bound to the 14 blocks their Jr & Sr year. My son stayed with math, science & english. History/government here required a huge amount of reading and written work.</p>
<p>He has an EC that is time intensive. He made the choice that was right for him that he could reasonable keep his GPA up and keep with his EC. Will he be a less attractive candidate than a student that had APs in foreign language and social studies? Perhaps. It depends on how much weight his EC holds (before you tell me ECs don’t matter, colleges don’t care, some do care about academic teams that compete nationally). He made the choice that was right for him. The admissions office will look at his resume and decide if what he offers will fit with their university. It may be that they value all around very high academic achievers. It may be they are interested in students that want research and hands on opportunities out of the class (as he offers). Some times it is a matter of fit, not ‘better’.</p>
<p>He would have been foolish to have shunned AP classes altogether however. Unless you are willing to take the time outside the classroom to get higher level academics at a university or become involved in a very unique program that would be considered a ‘hook’, if APs are offered at your school and your student is capable then it’s important to pay attention to corse rigor. The colleges are.</p>
I agree with this 100% … and hopefully when your son applies to schools his choices will jive with the adcoms of schools that will be a good fit for him! Those schools who do not appreciate the choices he made are probably not the best fit for <em>him</em>.</p>
<p>Why not to take APs if they are offerred? D. had very few because her school did not offer many. Whateve she had definitely has helped her saving time/money at college and avoid lowering college GPA by taking difficult class (in her case, History). the most useful is to take AP classes that are difficult for you and you have no interest in them. There is no reason to spend resources taking these classes in college.</p>
<p>^ I would respectfully disagree. Taking classes you are strong in and in your intended field of study helps you get ready for SAT2 subject tests (APChem, AP Physics, etc.) that will be helpful in admissions to an engineering school. The same would hold true for APUSH or APLit for a Liberal Arts major. If your target schools do not require SAT2s you will still get the benefit of a head start in these subjects when you get to college.
If you take APs in subjects in which you do not excel in high school you risk your GPA as an expense.</p>
<p>Take this scenario into consideration: the ad com has many, many apps to review. It is crunch time at the admissions offices. They are now in the mode where they are looking for reasons to NOT accept students instead of the other way around since they have already admitted a now fixed number and they are running into limits. Your student is at a school that offers all sorts of APs and he has not taken any. He doesn’t have anything else that is so special that it gives an “aha” reaction. Just didn’t take APs, whereas most of the top 5-10% of the kids at his school do . (This info is often on the school profile). What do you think the decision is going to be? </p>
<p>On the otherhand, if the college is not that selective where this is not such an issue, then as long as the SAT scores are nice and high and the gpa is good, there isn’t going to be such a focus on the APs. These folks are not so much looking to eliminate kids as they are trying to get the highest qualified class and also getting a certain yield so they are looking for kids that are likely to come to the school. Whole different scenario.</p>
<p>AP’s are a part of the equation. At my son’s public school they are a factor in class rank, and for college admissions, everything I have read indicates rigor of academics is critical. Not taking AP’s that are offered would seem to be a red flag. His school only offers five, so it wasn’t like some of the schools where they seem to slap ‘AP’ on everything. They certainly were not watered down, though I agree with previous posts that that is highly dependent on the instructor. As for receiving credit for the course - LOL and good luck if your student is entering a highly selective institution.</p>
<p>^ Yes, it has to be on their approved list and usually a 4/5. Some schools will take a 3. If you have taken Chem without the lab, you may get credit for the lecture but be required to take the lab. If you took both chem lecture/lab make sure you hang on to your lab notebook. I’d love to give credit to the cc poster who made note of this, however I read here that their student didn’t get credit for the lab portion of chem because their notebook wasn’t deemed complete enough.</p>
<p>So, as initiatelaunch states, don’t be surprised if you hit a brick wall on those APs counting. I would NOT use this as a reason not to take them. In fact there are several within S2s major that we will suggest he retake in college again from a college professor despite an acceptable AP score. Having the knowledge base from the classes in high school will make the classes that much easier.</p>
<p>The only reason my son graduated in 4 years was because of all of the APs he had. He did not want to take any academic courses, and was exempted from most all of them because of high AP test scores and the many APs he had. He needed every one of those credits because he bombed out some terms and had to take some courses a number of times. (Boy couldn’t dance and was taking dance with the dance majors) So they can really make the difference if something happens.</p>
<p>Having AP vs Regular does not quarantee superior prep. by no means. In addition, lots of pre-meds require to take Chem, Bio starting with the first class or are smart enough to do so to insure success at higher level classes. D. took English and History AP to avoid taking them in college. Worked out very well, although, she still had to take 1 semester of English because of “4”, not “5”. History was a definite winner, she has very hard time with this class, potential college GPA breaker. College GPA is the most important stat for pre-meds. Calc AP was useful also. Although it is easy for her, she does not care much for math and did not need to spend precious college time taking more than college Stats. I would advice to perform analysis in each case in regard to requirements of future major and abilities. However, I still would say, if many APs are offerred and school does not limit number / year, then take as many as you wish.</p>
<p>Forgot to mention, that D. will graduate in 4 years, with no single summer class and almost 2 minors and light schedule in jusnior year (because of MCAT prep) and senior year (there are not many classes left to take). She had to drop one minor becuase one of Med. Schools on her list added new required classes in a middle of application process, so D. will have to change her Fall semester that she has already registered for. However, she will have completely unrelated Music Minor that she will have enough time to complete. Smart list of AP classes was very helpful.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP,
It sounds like you spent some time really looking into what was best going to serve your daughter and it has worked out well! Good for her! :)</p>
<p>You make a very good point, that each student has individual needs and shouldn’t just ‘go with the flow’. Sometimes their needs can be better met by doing something different.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for these responses. A friendly note to Limabeans: I was not planning to boycott APs – I raised it as a theoretical question. Similarly, I am aware of the limitations of ranking high schools – I offered the bit about my S’s high school not to brag, but just to help respondents understand the kind of school my S was attending, i.e., one where AP courses are very popular. Thanks to all.</p>
<p>I would not base your decision on the girl took who got into Bard four years ago. Bard has increased greatly in selectivity! Just take the courseload that seems appropriate for your daughter.</p>
<p>^ I agree. Most colleges have become much more selective in the past few years.</p>
<p>One of S’s 8th grade teachers was discouraging students from signing up for some of the HS honors classes and some that lead to AP’s. According to S, she told them that she knows a student who was admitted to a selective school with no AP’s and few honors. That may have been true at our local HS several years ago, but not now. Bad advice in my opinion.</p>
<p>Lamere, my D just finished junior year, attends a public sounding like yours, known in the college adcom circuit for churning out capable students. Regular classes themselves are rigorous, with serious grade deflation, and D made the decision not to take any APs because she needed an occasional night of sleep in balancing everything else. We did not push her. HS offers a ton of APs too. Will it hurt her in the college app process? Perhaps. Instead she elected to take a couple community college courses in her area of interest during the summer, and she nailed them. If you D can balance it all, it’s probably in her interest to take some AP’s if she can swing it. If not, I tend to think it will all work out. Best of luck!</p>
<p>I was recently at a Harvard info session, and a father was trying to convince the Ad Com member fielding questions that it was preferable for his dd to take 4 AP courses instead of the 5 his dd wanted to take. While being polite and pleasant, the Ad Com member said repeatedly, “We want to see the most challenging curriculum. If there is a specific reason for not taking the most challenging curriculum, we need to hear about it.” She was personal and understanding, and I’m guessing that the dad in question thought he had received a green light to make his dd step down from her 5th “most challenging” class, but those of us watching heard it differently.</p>
<p>I also agree that the point of the challenging curriculum is to show that the applicant is the kid who <em>loves</em> the challenge, not the one who is checking off boxes. I think the level of excitement needs to come across in interviews, essays and teacher letters.</p>