Opinions on going to a school below your academic level?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>So I've been researching Virginia colleges lately, and I've found some that do look nice (Longwood, Mary Washington). The only problem is that their average SAT/ACT and GPA scores are a lot below what mine are. For example...
Longwood:
Average GPA: 3.07-3.61
Average SAT (without writing): 930-1080
Average ACT: 19-24</p>

<p>My scores/projected scores
GPA: Unweighted 3.8, weighted 4.15 with a lot of AP (Chem, Physics 1, Physics C, Statistics, Calculus AB, Biology) and honors (All English and Social Studies classes)
SAT projected (without writing): 1400 or higher
ACT projected: 30+</p>

<p>Are colleges like these worth going to? Or would I be completely bored? Any opinions and personal experiences would be very helpful! Thanks! </p>

<p>Oh and I'm in Virginia :)</p>

2

<p>If you’re aiming for merit scholarships (and even if you aren’t), you will apply to several colleges where you are above average or maybe significantly above average. The key is to carefully evaluate each school to determine whether it will provide appropriate academic opportunities and challenges for you. I don’t know enough about Longwood or Mary Washington to make this call (though Longwood does seem to be at the low end score-wise.) What are your reasons for considering these particular schools?</p>

<p>A thread you may find interesting: <a href=“"Top student" at a 3rd tier school... Four years later - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/905843-top-student-at-a-3rd-tier-school-four-years-later-p1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

3

<p>I like the idea of going to an in-state, small school with small classes and nice campuses. If I did go to one of these schools, they would have to have my major though (physics or biochemistry) </p>

4

<p>Just be sure to check any colleges out for the factors that “fit” you. You won’t be unhappy if you have strong reasons for attending. In every college there are strong students, and also students who party. If you are at the top of the application pool, consider programs such as honors colleges. Although there is plenty of debate on CC about the prestige of them - or not, that isn’t necessarily the main reason. Many come with honors housing, or research opportunities, and those may appeal to you.
Pay attention to location, school culture, what programs fit you. Its’ important to visit them too. Apply for any merit scholarships you may qualify for.
Senior year is a long time, and during that time, students grow and change their outlook. Certainly apply to the schools that interest you, but don’t eliminate any opportunities. If you “under-apply” you might have regrets for overlooking other possibilities. Keeping your options open during the application by following a “reach, match, safety” strategy will let you know what all your choices are. You don’t need to decide until spring of your senior year. Keep your options open. You can include choices like UVA, and William and Mary is a relatively smaller school.
Some colleges outside Virginia may offer you merit aid as well. If you don’t want to venture far from home, look at neighboring states for small schools that meet your criteria.</p>

5

<p>Get a copy of the Fiske Guide and poke around on CC’s SuperMatch tool. By plugging in your numbers/preferences, I came up with the following list of possibilities: University of Richmond, Washington and Lee, William & Mary, Emory & Henry, Mary Washington, Christopher Newport, Virginia Tech.</p>

<p>Also, make sure to get an accurate perspective of your financial standing. How much are you/your parents able to afford each year for college? What is your Expected Family Contribution, as per net price calculators?</p>

6

<p>Based on your stats, yes Longwood wouldn’t be good for you. You’d be too much of an outlier. Same thing with Radford, UVA Wise, ODU. However, JMU, UMW, VCU, CNU may be good safeties yet their top 10-25% would not be so much below your own stats. If you applied early enough + to honors, you’d have your acceptance early on with merit scholarships, and then you could apply wherever you wished regardless of reach or risk (such as W&M, Vtech, or UVA, which someone with your stats could aim for.)
Based on what you said, you like smaller schools, so LACs would be especially appropriate.
As of now, you can fill out the “request info” forms for: Davidson, URichmond, Guilford (safety), Rhodes, Elon, UNC-Wilmington, UNC-Asheville, College of Charleston, Centre, Oxford of Emory.
A bit further away: Allegheny, Wooster, Dickinson, Muhlenberg, Goucher, Franklin&Marshall, Ursinus, Susquehanna, Kenyon, UDayton, Hendrix, UAlabama Honors - and even further North if you were adventurous, Carleton, Macalester, St Olaf, Grinnell, Kalamazoo, Vassar, Colby, Hamilton, etc… </p>

7

<p>I went to a college where my SAT scores were way higher than the averages. I liked the school for a variety of other reasons - school culture, the student body, tight alumnae relationships (fellow alumnae jump up and down and embrace me like a sister) and a beautiful campus.</p>

<p>I had a complete blast, and I wasn’t bored at all. I felt intellectually challenged in a different way. I didn’t feel like my classes were so challenging that I felt stressed out and felt like I had to study all day to keep up with my peers, but I did feel challenged to think deeply, to analyze, to critically challenge things. My classmates brought diverse perspectives to the classroom.</p>

<p>And I am now finishing up a PhD program at a great place, so clearly I got good enough preparation to move on.</p>

8

<p>My DD is a student at Longwood, and her “stats” are way above the average: HS GPA of 3.87 with all honors or AP Classes, ACT of 27 varsity sport all four years, employment, NHS and plenty of community service as well . She was admitted to the Cormier honors college along with a merit scholarship. She has done very well her first year and has made some really nice friends. She has really connected with some of her professors, and it’s definitely nicer for her to be Able to establish a relationship with them. She is not just a “number.” She was accepted to every other college that she applied to, but the small classes and beautiful campus really appealed to her. If academics are very important to you, you will seek out other like-minded students. My oldest son graduated from VT and my other son graduated from William & Mary. So our family has had experience with small, medium and large colleges. Each has their advantages/disadvantages. You need to go to a school where you can feel like you are part of the community. </p>

9

<p>There is a recent nonfiction book by Malcolm Gladwell called David and Goliath about the power of underdogs. In one chapter he explains that good students at average colleges actually are far more successful than good students at top colleges. The reason is that we compare ourselves with our immediate peer group (such as a classroom or college) and we feel more capable and successful when we at or near the top of that group. This is true whether you are the “dumbest” student at Harvard or the brightest student at a community college. In fact, Gladwell found that many students at top colleges and ivies did not pursue the major of their choice if it was in a more lucrative but challenging field such as engineering & techonology, because they were worried about not measuring up. Many would-be doctors and engineers majored in something “easier” if they were attending a reach college. So my answer to your question is that there is nothing wrong with attending a college where you can be an academic star - in fact, you’ll probably get great grades and recommendations that will set you up well for grad school or a career.</p>

10

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<p>Well said, and same here. I was fixated on trying to match others’ expectations of where I should go college. The thought process was old and formulaic - you have X sat scores, you go to these schools… you have Y sat scores, you go to those schools… so on and so forth. No if, ands, or butts. There was no consideration of the quality of the program offered at any of the schools, nor was there any consideration of my desire to go to any of the schools. </p>

<p>Despite all of that pressure, I ended up going to a school where my GPA and scores exceeded the average, and to this day, I could not be happier with my decision. I had some awesome memories there, and in hindsight, I would not have changed my decision.</p>

<p>Overall fit and quality of the program take priority over exclusivity IMO.</p>

11

<p>Please don’t take the Gladwell book as fact. While he is a good and interesting writer, that is his own subjective conclusions. My own daughter thrived in the challenging environment at Brown. And one of his examples of a student forced out of their major because of brilliant peers was a Brown student who couldn’t pass organic chem so, wawa, couldn’t be a doctor. It is really hard to say if she would pass organic chem at an easier school and if she did, would she be properly prepared for the MCAT and med school? But most importantly–at Brown you can fail a class and it will not be recorded on your transcript, it simply is as if you had not taken it–no blot on your med school applicaton, they even teach it in summer. So anyone who wanted to be on track for med school can simply take it again. This girl didn’t have the drive to do that. So really bad example!</p>

<p>Gruber, I don’t know those colleges you mention, but I think it is one thing to be at the top 10 percent of your class, and quite another to go to a school so far below your stats and achievement level. I do think different people will have things to teach you but you will not be surrounded by people used to doing the level of work you are capable of. I would look for alternatives colleges that have qualities you like in a smaller school but a bit stronger peers than it sounds like here. At least have some on your list so you have options next spring, do some visits, etc.</p>

12

<p>If you were my child one question I would ask you is whom are your friends in high school. Do you hang out with a variety of kids? mostly with the kids who are smart as you or smarter? mostly with kids who are not as strong students as you? Given your current friends do you see yourself fitting in at a school where you are smarter than the vast majority of the other students? There is not aright or wrong answer to these questions … what is a good fit for you?</p>

13

<p>Thank you for all of your responses. @3togo my closest friends are all strong students, but many people at my school just do not care at all about school and learning. When I was interviewing for this summer research internship, I met so many great people that are so different then kids at my high school; they care about school, science, and learning. I honestly think that I would rather be surrounded by those types of people rather than repeating high school. </p>

14

<p>I agree with you, BrownParent, on your point about taking Malcolm Gladwell’s conclusions with a grain of salt. I currently work with undergrads at my competitive graduate university, and students often rise to the challenge. If you are in a competitive atmosphere it changes the way you think - especially in the particularly malleable 18-25 years. For example, I don’t think that many 17-year-olds dream of being financiers, but I think the atmosphere and expectations of the Columbia/Barnard community make many students want to work these kinds of jobs. I was actually talking about this to an undergrad the other day, and she says being around the kinds of peers whose families could afford vacation homes and trips to Europe - even if you didn’t have that yourself growing up - makes you want those things. Moreover, if what your peers value is fancy hedge fund jobs and med school acceptances, you’re going to try to get those things to stay in step with people you consider your peer group.</p>

<p>And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that - that’s the way peer groups are supposed to function. The upside to that is that here, a B- is like OMG NOOOOO. It encourages you to do really well because your peers value As. (Now, of course that contributes to stress! There are trade-offs.) The community at Spelman, my alma mater, was not so much focused on straight As, and I admit that because that wasn’t valued there I didn’t work as hard as I could have to maintain, let’s say, a 3.8 GPA (which is fine - that’s what I wanted from college). It was, however, focused on giving back and doing service. So most of us worked in at least one - and frequently 2 or 3 - service projects while at Spelman as extracurriculars, as well as tried to find careers we felt would give back and help others. Even if you worked at a bank or financial services firm, you tried to find one that gave to charity and appreciated community and pro bono work. That was the culture; it’s what you felt like your peers, and your alma mater, expected you to do. It pervades you, even when you don’t expect it to.</p>

<p>So let me temper my original post - I’m in total agreement that you have to select your college carefully to have a peer group that challenges you and encourages you to meet your potential. My only point is that SAT scores don’t tell the whole story, and a lot of people here have a much narrower view of the kinds of colleges/universities that can challenge you in that way. You don’t have to go to a college at which you fall in the middle 50% of SAT scores in order to be challenged and rise to your potential. At the same time, though, you don’t want to be in a demotivating place where you won’t be challenged. For example, a student used to writing 10-15 page tightly-written literary papers for English class doesn’t want to go somewhere where senior seminars only require 3-5 page papers, much less freshman comp. Someone who wants to become a master debater and public speaker doesn’t want to go to a college that never requires class presentations.</p>

<p>I think the best way to gauge that is to visit when school is in session and sit in on a sample class. I did this at Spelman before hand and I LOVED the class discussion, and nearly all of my classes were actually like that. I think you have to go on a normal day, though, because professors (like everyone else) are on their best behavior on the special visit days and sometimes plan something different.</p>

15

<p>Note also that among various schools where you are significantly above average, some schools (or majors within the schools) may have a sufficiently large high-achievement-oriented peer group subset of students while others may not.</p>