Our NY college list..feedback please..

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>Ok we are getting our final list of colleges to consider. We are doing the New York colleges first. Then will do CA and then will do misc. (ie we will relook at Berklee and also want to look at Miami)</p>

<p>For New York we want a school that will offer voice or commercial music..not interested in classical.. we want it to be close enough to go to New York to explore the city or do an audition and we want it to have dorms of some sort.</p>

<p>Here is our final list to ltake a second look at for NY. If anyone has thoughts on these I would appreciate it very much! </p>

<p>New York University
Five Towns University
Pace Universtiy
Hofstra
Suny Purchase
Suny Binghamton..</p>

<p>I am not sure of the location of all of these but I think they are in our target. IIf not PLEASE let me know.</p>

<p>I would greatly appreciate input on these.</p>

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<p>SUNY Binghamton is HOURS (3? or more) away from NYC. SUNY Purchase, which is near where I live, is probably a 40 minute train.</p>

3

<p>Angstridden, I don't have time to do in depth research for you but here is my take on the "surface"....others may not know but I (and other posters) tried to help you with suggested colleges where your D might be able to pursue popular/contemporary music last year on the Parent Forum. I still believe Berklee is one that should be seriously considered. But I know your D is very set on being in NYC or LA. So, last year, I did some research looking for schools for you in LA or NYC that MIGHT offer what she wants but you'd have to delve deeper and look at their offerings in music to see if it really would fit. I know you do not want classical. So, first I am going to paste the list of NY and LA schools that I suggested to you last year:</p>

<p>Brooklyn College of CUNY (BM)
California Institute of the Arts (BFA)
Cal State Fullerton (BM)
Cal State LA (BM)
Chapman University (BM)
Colburn School of Performing Arts (in LA) (BM)
Five Towns College (BM)
Hunter College - CUNY (BM)
Juilliard School (BM)
Lehman College of the City Univ. of NY (BS)
Mannes College of Music (BM)
Musician's Institute (BM) in Hollywood....commercial music
NYU-Steinhardt (BM)
Nyack College (BM)
Aaron Copland School of Music at Queens College of CUNY (BM)
SUNY Purchase (BM)
Univ. of California Irvine (BM)
Univ. of California, Santa Barbara (BM)
UCLA (BM)
University of the Pacific
William Patterson Univ. of NJ (BM)...not far from NYC</p>

<p>Second, in preliminary search for possibilities NOT in NYC or LA (I know I know she doesn't want that but just as she doesn't want classical voice programs, she also might have to really look hard for the best fit of music programs which may not just be in those two cities) and so even if you disregard these, I'm gonna post 'em anyway:</p>

<p>University of the Arts (Phila.)
Berklee College of Music (Boston)
Belmont University (Nashville)
Florida Atlantic University
Millikin University
Shenandoah University
University of Denver
Carleton University (Ottawa)</p>

<p>Looking at your list...I would have to really research each school's website of music offerings and do not have the time but here are a few tidbits of feedback. You sure Pace has what she wants? In performing arts directories, they do not come up as being in this particular field. I just looked at their website and see nothing offered in the area of your D's interest. Binghamton is NOT near NYC at all and in fact, if you are willing to look at Binghamton which is in the middle of nowhere and would not be convenient to NYC, she would do WAY better at Berklee and Belmont which are in cities with thriving music scenes and both schools actually have the type of program she is looking for, which is not classical voice. Also, Hofstra has jazz and contemporary music but is this for voice or just instrumental? It sounded like it was for instrumental not vocal performance. I'm not sure NYU is right for your D. She would have to audition into Steinhardt. Tisch is strictly musical theater and drama and she does not want that and nobody should study in a BFA program in MT unless they really want THAT field. Steinhardt would be vocal performance (classical) or MT, I'm pretty sure. Neither is a good fit unless she is willing to study vocal performance at colleges in which case that opens up more classically based programs. Purchase appears to be classical and opera.</p>

<p>I tried to reserach schools that MIGHT have more contemporary music programs. </p>

<p>Why don't you take each school on my list and research their websites thoroughly and see what they offer. Some might be really wrong (I did not have time to read up on each one) but some might be what you are looking for. As well, research the schools on YOUR list to make sure they really have what you want and are not simply near NYC. I'm not sure each of the schools on YOUR list do have it and also if you had looked at the websites, you'd see that Binghamton is not near NYC. I can't tell from your post the degree with which you researched those schools. Did you simply look for schools near NYC or at their actual programs?</p>

<p>Of your list, Five Towns stands out as most suitable. Have you thought of some BA programs like Sarah Lawrence where she might be able to pursue this interest? Just another idea. I think most music programs are going to be vocal performance with a classical bent and a wrong fit unless she is willing to study voice which is not a bad way to go. But if she truly wants contemporary/popular music, I encourage you to research the schools on the list I provided to see if any would have what she wants. I'd also consider the programs that were in other cities like UArts, Berklee, and Belmont as all three have what she is looking for and are in vibrant cities for music. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Susan,
I know you posted a list last year and I thank you for that. </p>

<p>We are now narrowing our search and are focused on NY first. Will do CA later. And are including University of Miami to look at and possibly Berklee. We are not looking at the other schools because she wants to be in NY or CA as I have said..though we will look at the latter two I mentioned. </p>

<p>We got the NY schools narrowed down (and we used the list you provided last year and other names) to the 6 schools I listed above. </p>

<p>We would like to eliminate the NY schools further so thats why we are asking for feedback here on those 6 schools only. </p>

<p>So we appreciate thoughts on those 6. We will do CA later and get input on those..but we are trying to stay focused on NY schools for now..</p>

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<p>Nytheatermom ..thank you for eliminating Bringhamtop (sp)..that is great to know.
I thought it was only 1 hour away. So that takes care of that one..</p>

<p>Down to 5 now! Thoughts on the other NY schools appreciated.</p>

<p>(We are doing CA later)</p>

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<p>Angst- I have a son who attends Five Towns College. He is studying music business with a concentration in audio technology (wants to be an engineer). Just wanted you to know that they do have a contemporary music program.But...the college is very small and is in a suburb of Long Island about 40 minutes out of NYC. They do have a few dorms, few clubs etc. but it is very different from a school like NYU or Purchase. Just wanted you to realize that. There are few electives-they pretty much give you your schedule for 4 years. It just depends on what she wants.</p>

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<p>angst, as Susan said, you can eliminate NYU from your list as well. It does not offer the type of program in voice that you're looking for, as Steinhardt would require classical and Tisch is a Musical Theatre program which also is not what your D wants.</p>

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<p>just wanted to add that i just looked at the Five Towns College course book-they have a jazz/commercial music -vocal concentration/musical theater. You come out with a MusB (bachelor of music). The first 4 semesters is alot of harmony, sight singing, ear training, performance ensembles, keyboard. The 5-8 semesters there is alot of MT-stage movement, play production, acting fundamentals etc.
Then there is a jazz/commercial music-composition/songwriting concentration with a MusB degree as well. First 4 semesters is again harmony, sight singing, ear training, keyboard, performance ensembles. In semesters 5-8 there is choral conducting, popular songwriting, and alot of music history classes.
Lastly, there is a jazz/commercial music-performance concentration. Again you graduate with a MusB degree. First 4 semesters is similar to last two majors I described (sight singing...etc.). Semesters 5-8 have commercial arrainging, improv, computer music, songwriting and music history. So, I am not sure which one is most applicable to your daughter's interest-maybe the third one??</p>

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<p>Angst, I gave you some feedback on NYU, Hofstra, Pace, Purchase, and Five Towns. </p>

<p>Am wondering if Hofstra's jazz and contemporary music program includes vocal performance? What have you found out with that school? I did not see that in that major. With Pace, I saw nothing for music. They have it? Purchase's program appeared to be classical voice and opera. NYU Steinhardt either has classical voice or musical theater. Five Towns does have contemporary music and that is why I said of the five there, it seemed the most fitting. A vocal performance major is going to be classical at many schools though is good training for any singer though I don't think your D wants that so I'd rule those out in that case. By which method did you pick these schools? Just because they are in NYC or have you found them to have appropriate programs for her interest? That is what I am trying to understand. The schools I listed above were based on a very preliminary search of what you said she was interested in but I'm not positive they have it. Did you visit the websites for these schools I suggested to look into that are in NY (besides the ones on your list)?:</p>

<p>Brooklyn College of CUNY (BM)
Five Towns College (BM)
Hunter College - CUNY (BM)
Juilliard School (BM)
Lehman College of the City Univ. of NY (BS)
Mannes College of Music (BM)
Nyack College (BM)
Aaron Copland School of Music at Queens College of CUNY (BM)
William Patterson Univ. of NJ (BM)...not far from NYC</p>

<p>I took a quick look at a few of these and again, most do not focus on contemporary and popular music but I see that William Patterson has jazz and that may be a good vocal performance major for your daughter in a BM program. </p>

<p>Is she willing to look at BA schools? What about Sarah Lawrence? They have conservatory style program that is self directed and can be individualized. They have various music courses including jazz vocals. She may be able to create an individualized program in the style of music she wants to pursue. What about Wagner? </p>

<p>Few of the schools have an actual concentration in popular or contemporary music but if you examine their curriculum, you may find certain programs to be conducive to her interest areas. To get specificically the exact major she wants, often you are talking more of a specialized school like Berklee, UArts, Belmont or some of the ones I listed for LA. If you must have NYC, you might have to change course in terms of which type of major or program she'd be interested in enrolling in.</p>

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<p>Angstridden,</p>

<p>Have you given any thought to the Clive Davis Institute? It is a Tisch Studio. I really don't know much about it. But I know that it deals with recording and more contemporary music. I am not sure if it more production oriented but it may include some performance classes. This is a new program at Tisch and from what I understand extremely selective.</p>

<p>The web site for the curriculum is: <a href="http://clivedavisdept.tisch.nyu.edu/object/remuCurriculum.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://clivedavisdept.tisch.nyu.edu/object/remuCurriculum.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Alwaysamom or Soozievt do you know anything about this program and whether it is something that angstridden's daughter should check out?</p>

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<p>I am pretty sure Clive Davis is production only-it is more about becoming a record producer, finding the talent, management etc. From my understanding there is only 24 students in the program-very selective. I could be wrong, but I do not believe there is performance involved.
what about Wagner-Staten Island? Not sure if this is just MT, but I think I was told they had vocal major, but it may be classical-check out website.</p>

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<p>I just thought I'd pop in here with something a little off topic, but related. I apologize up front if it seems to upset the applecart of this discussion. </p>

<p>A college degree is a lifetime investment. No matter how one ends up using one's degree, it must be valuable or why would we waste four years and the money it costs to pursue obtaining that diploma? I know that a high school student generally has certain dreams in mind and living in a certain city can be part of those dreams. But should a college be selected for the city or for the school and what it has to offer? I'm just curious because to me it seems a realistic view of college to look it at for what the college has to offer the student. Choosing the city first, then trying to find a school that is in that city that fits or sort of fits one's interests, does not seem very goal (education, career, etc.) oriented. This is a difficult process, helping one's child find a college, because it's impossible to know when we are guiding too strongly and when we are letting them flounder too much at too young an age with so much at stake. I mean this in general, not in terms of Angst's D.</p>

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<p>Right, Clive Davis is more about the business of the record industry, not actual performance. I heard the head of the program speak last weekend at the Tisch Parent Day and that really is what it is about. Sounds really great (and selective) for those wanting to go into that end of the business. It does not seem well suited to Angst's D's academic/training or career interests. </p>

<p>I mentioned Wagner as many we know go there for a BA in Theater Performance with a Musical Theater emphasis, which is by audition. It is a strong program for MT and one that others on this forum may want to look at as a "tier" down from some of the BFA in MT programs often discussed on this forum. Not positive it is for Angst's D but I am thinking that if it MUST be NYC for her D, then she may have to forego finding schools with her exact major or area of study. The schools best for her interests are not any of these schools. I believe they are the three I mentioned: Belmont, Berklee, UArts and also there might be some on that CA list I gave but I would have to delve into them further. I suggest that Angst peruse each school's website. I have done that for a few just now for her and it does not take that long. You can easily find the distance to Manhattan, the curriculum, the specialities, etc. </p>

<p>Further, she doesn't HAVE to do a BM degree in music (performance) to go into what she wants to do. She can major in something else and pursue a career as a pop singer in various other ways extracurricularly too. I also suggested Sarah Lawrence where she might study music in an indivdualized program and also can form her own ensemble and get gigs, etc. </p>

<p>I have shared with Angst before about a girl from my teeny little town who is a few years older than my girls but did musicals with my younger one and we know her well. She took one year off before college. Her parents used tuition money that year to have her cut a CD in a studio. She got many gigs in the region. She then went to a liberal arts school and continued to perform with a band and got gigs. Her band has recorded a couple CDs and so has she. They got more and more gigs in the region and got a following. She stopped going to college to pursue her career. She is now finishing a national tour and she has even opened on this tour for Dave Matthews and Taj Mahal at some of the places. I am seeing her perform tomorrow night as she is coming to her hometown (here). She is doing a coming home tour now. My daughter recently saw her perform in Boston and will again in Providence and my younger one is going to her show in NYC. A couple nights ago I saw Bonnie Raitt (this girl has similar style) and Bonnie even told the concert goers about this local girl in Vermont. She has taken it slow and is not anxious yet to sign a big record label with the band. She wants to maintain creative control for now. She has built this slowly. She composes songs (what I recommend Angst's D does more of) and accompanies herself on piano (recommend her D also play piano or guitar). I recommend Angst D also get gigs regionally, as you have to start somewhere. This girl from here is going places and has created quite a following and is working outside our region now. Many feel she is going to make it big. This is one way to get into that business. She did do liberal arts as she pursued this though did not finish college when she was becoming successful with it and it was taking off. But Angst D COULD do a liberal arts type degree and still pursue her ambition of becoming a pop singer. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>First off I would like to thank you all for your most wonderful information and help. </p>

<p>I want to share something about my D. ..right now she is in the performing arts school in music. Each day she does computer music composition, singing, theory etc. And she has two classes English and something else.
She is a good student with excellent grades. HOWEVER she told me that if she was not in the music program she would not be having a good time because she wants to do music..so a liberal arts program is not in the picture because she would not get in as much music as she wants. Last year she told me she was sick of school..then she was in a general academic program
This year..she LOVES it..and I know its the music keeping her interest.
So a liberal arts degree will not do it for her.</p>

<p>Next to the schools - we looked at Mannes, Julliard and they were classical.
And most of the Cuny schools (from what we saw)did not have a traditional campus such as Aaron Copland School at Queens.
So its looking more like a CA school.</p>

<p>Audi I would love to hear more about 5 towns..I will email you privately.
Also if anyone knows more about PURCHASE? </p>

<p>Susan we will check into William Patterson..(had not heard of that one) but had looked at all the rest.</p>

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<p>Angst, have you visited these schools' websites? I mentioned that I did a quick view of several of them for you and that is how I eliminated some or at least told you what they have. Purchase appears to be vocal performance and opera and more classically based. I've said before that a BM in music MIGHT be a good route for your daughter as it is still vocal training but you have said she will not take a classically based voice degree. So, that is what you are looking at in MANY of these BM programs. That means she must decide if she wants a BM (you said no liberal arts) but it may very well be classical, OR is willing to go outside NYC and go to a school that has the KIND of program she wants (popular or contemporary music), or to do something like maybe Sarah Lawrence with an open curriculum and lots of individualized plans that has music and even some jazz and where she might be able to devise a degree program along her interest lines. </p>

<p>So, decide which is most important....location? Then she must give up a contemporary music program specifically (though look into Five Towns). Or music program? Then she might need to think about a BM degree in voice but it will be classically based....like Steinhardt or Purchase. Or does she want a program geared toward popular music? Then maybe look at Berklee, Belmont, University of the Arts. Even if she does a more traditionally based vocal performance major, she can pursue pop music as an extracurricular and form a band and get gigs. She'd be getting music and voice training and a college degree (good for anything in the future) but also be doing her specialty of popular music in her activities. For example, a good friend of my D's at Tisch/CAP21 who she knew from Stagedoor (she is now 20 years old) recorded a demo CD in high school (is really good) where she wrote all her own songs and accompanied herself on piano. Now, in college, she has a band, where she is the vocalist and they get gigs. My D saw them perform at the seaport. She also is in the a capella group that my D is in which is all pop and contemporary music. So, she is doing a lot with contemporary music but also getting a degree in college in MT. So your D can form bands and write music and get gigs while going to school anywhere. If she wants specific training in contemporary music, which sounds to me like she would MOST enjoy, let alone help further her career, she should be willing to look into Berklee, UArts, or Belmont. If she merely is using colleges in NYC as a way to "be in NYC" where her career can take off, I don't think that will do it. </p>

<p>Yes, being in NYC can be helpful but she need not go to a misc. college just to be in NYC. She can go to NYC without the college (not that I am advocating that necessarily). OR she can be someplace else, further her craft, get herself out there and start small regionally, and THEN move to NYC after her degree. She has to decide which is more important now...her college? being in NYC? I would not pick a school in NYC JUST because it was in NYC but only if it was a VERY good fit with what she would like to be doing in college. Being in NYC is great, no doubt about it. My D has already met MANY in the theater world in the short time she has been there. She has seen numerous shows. She now is excited that her boyfriend has tickets to attend the premiere of the new RENT movie with her which will be attended by the cast, and a private party Robert DeNiro is giving. I could go on about each week who she has met and what she has done. She is starting an internship on Monday. She had a Broadway director who wanted to cast her in his equity showcase of a new musical but her school UNDERSTANDABLY would not allow it as freshmen can't do shows and it is at their studio but they have said when the take the show to the next level, they will call her in to audition for it. A well known Bdway producer has viewed her work and is taking her resume. Her boyfriend at school (he is from SDM too) just got a gig on two Law and Order episodes, one airs in a week. Being in NYC has had some benefits in terms of networking. But she did not pick her school because it was in NYC. She picked a school that best suited what she wanted for her education. Being in NYC has added perks. But her chances to make it in this field are just as good as if she had done a BFA program some place else and then moved to NYC. Getting the training is the step of her process that she is on now. Finding where to best do that is the key. Just something to think about. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

16

<p>Ok D. did some research..here is what she came up with.</p>

<p>Pace..(no music really but theater)
Suny Purchase ( appears to be classical)
Wagner ( appears to be classical)
Sarah Lawrence..(lovely but lacks the musical excitement she wants)</p>

<p>Five Towns (great possibility but likely too small)</p>

<p>NYU..( she thought they had a commercial music program ..but if she is wrong then ???)</p>

<p>So far New York is not looking like the right spot.</p>

17

<p>Thanks Susan, I just saw your post after writing mine.</p>

<p>Sounds like your D. is having a fabulous time! And great opportunites!</p>

18

<p>My daughter is looking into Purchase - VERY classical (intense Italian first year then French and German) as far as I know and moves into a graduate opera program.</p>

19

<p>OK, at least now I understand what my initial question was with the first post which was to ask if you had researched those schools (more than the fact that they were in NY, though one really wasn't) and now I see that you have read about them now but had not before as much. That's what I was getting at. In a quick search myself, I could see that many of those schools were not what she wanted. </p>

<p>And she is not my daughter but knowing so much about what SHE wants from all your posts over the years, I can't help but saying that I just now read about the programs (online) at Berklee, Belmont and University of the Arts and it excited ME to feel BINGO, these are IT! They have contemporary or commerical music for performance. If you want this, you gotta look at these schools. How bad does she want that? I feel excitement when I see a match. Maybe that's just me because it is what I do for work, helping kids find schools that fit them. These schools seem like just what she wants. They are in major cities full of music opportunities. They can lead to careers. Ask people who go there. How did they get started? Did they get work in those cities while in school and then move to NYC or LA? Many who make it do not start in NYC or LA but get known in a region and then their career builds. If your D wants NYC or LA NOW for her CAREER, look into her taking a gap year and pursuing her career there if she wants. But I would encourage her to get a degree (a college degree serves one well in life) and in her field ....like the three schools I just mentioned....and her career will build....the schools will guide her with opportunities. She will perform in those areas and then maybe take it to NYC or LA. Belmont has some kind of showcase. Others in the industry will network with these schools like casting people do with BFA programs in theater. </p>

<p>You can't always go straight to NYC or LA to "make it". You sometimes start regionally. Sometimes you start with an education in your field that will lead to opportunities. OR you can skip all that and try to be the next Britney in LA or NYC. Frankly, that last one is REAL hard and I don't advise it. OR she could go to a college she likes in the NY or LA area that has vocal training (won't be commercial music) and hone her voice while pursuing popular music gigs on the side, if she wants to be in NYC or LA now. But honestly if she is going to college, she is not going to be able to pound the pavement and audition for record producers. Either give her a year in NYC to do that (gap year) OR go to college to be trained more and pound the pavement when she graduates. But just being in college in NYC is not going to necessarily further her career. She will mostly be busy at school. I can tell you that a BFA is very time consuming. I imagine a BM type degree is as well. These are all paths to think about.
Susan</p>

20

<p>Angst, out of my own curiousity, I am looking up each school's website and sure enough one of the ones I told you about initially last year and posted at the start of this thread, has commercial music geared to being a vocal performing artist...just what your D wants....Musician's Institute in Hollywood, CA. So, while I still think Berklee, UArts, and Belmont are great matches, this one is too and is in LA. I have not looked up each CA school yet but like I thought, some are more classically based voice degrees but some may not be. That is why from the start, I was encouraging you to actually look at each one's website. It does not take that long as I already got you a preliminary list from where to start. You still have to figure out which "path" she will take to get there but IF you want a degree program with the specialty of contemporary/popular/commercial music, already I've found you about five. If you add in some place like William Patterson with jazz vocals, you have more.</p>

<p>Another thought as there are not THAT many schools that have commercial music and she is dead set on being in NYC Or LA, can't she take a BM in Vocal performance even if it is classically based training for her voice? I know she does not want that but I am curious how you said she really is enjoying her two year music program at HS now and isn't that classically based music training? Might she study voice and supplement that with some pop work on the side in ensembles and such? Just a thought. Otherwise you are limited by very few programs on the college level in her area of interest and you are limitting that even further if just saying LA or NYC. </p>

<p>Susan</p>