<p>Would the universities that decline 90+% of their applicants respond to a bill from the non-selectees for reimbursement of their application fee?</p>
<p>further: “ov4,5… pressured her to come”</p>
<p>it is not the coaches fault that your D scheduled the 4th and 5th OV. Your D should have never accepted if she intended to not go if blown away by earlier OV’s. And to my early point, if the blown away just happened, she should have still given OV4 and 5 a chance.</p>
<p>If I was the coach I would feel used and I think that’s why he wants the airfare money back.</p>
<p>Wow–pacheight am I glad I don’t live in your house. I happy that your D was admitted to her 1st choice school- but I hope she has not inherited your “holy than thou” attitude.</p>
<p>My S also cancelled his 5th and last OV scheduled in November after receiving his LL. Yes the coach was disappointed –but not surprised (and did not ask to be reimbursed for train fare he had purchased). He knew that this happens especially so late in the year.</p>
<p>As he was told at all his OV’s that the coach would push for LL for him --so he was not having “anxiety over the possibility of not getting an offer (LL, commitment, or something like) that causes an athlete to commit and not finish any remaining OV’s.” Can’t belive you said that.</p>
<p>Why canceled OV’s ?</p>
<p>During OV’s my son spent 2 sleepless nights a week sleeping on a floor of a college dorm room. Sometimes with other recruits or hosts throwing up in the bathroom (yes -from drinking, yes- at Ivy’s- how shocking!) . He found very little if any time to do homework, and was missing important tests back at high school. He was missing time on his fall sport, and missing other senior year activities. His first and second choice schools told him they would get him a LL—So…why not let recruits who are not a coaches 1st choice maybe have a shot a little sooner? Why let the OV’s effect his grades -even his health? Sorry an OV is NOT that kind of commitment.</p>
<p>thrill: regular students are not jetted across the country, taken out to dinner, and get field seats to a football game. And then essentially offered admissions 7 months before most kids will get rejected from said university.</p>
<p>seems to me a little respect for the coach OV’s is warranted.</p>
<p>fasttrack: we just call it polite where i was raised, not holy:)</p>
<p>how would you feel if a coach called your child a few days before the OV and cancelled on him? would that be OK with you?</p>
<p>or how about this, I send you a non refundable ticket for a job interview, and you call a few days before and say too bad I got a job at another firm in our industry.</p>
<p>you think telling me to eat the ticket is correct behavior, you think that helps your reputation in the industry, reputation with your coworkers. </p>
<p>I’m surprise you and a few others think it’s OK to teach your kids to take advantage of a what is a very generous situation for them. </p>
<p>"holy than thou” ya right, i suspect in your neighborhood you take the wheels off and call it home!</p>
<p>I think the OP did the right thing to cancel the visits once she knew she wouldn’t consider attending. I think the coach should not demand reimbursement, but should make a practice of buying trip insurance and figure you win some-you lose some. And no student should feel compelled to take all the OVs once the decision has been made. </p>
<p>OVs are terribly difficult for kids, especially if they don’t live close to schools in the league they wish to play in. We’re far from most D1 schools, so it means two 8-10 hour trips, missed school, loss of focus at HS competitions held on the same weekends, not to mention the missed sleep, meals and homework time mentioned here. The kid should be allowed to stop the process whenever he feels done. He can’t know when this will happen when he agrees to the trips in August, but the whole thing can become crystal clear midway through the process.</p>
<p>Pacheight- interestingly enough we did have a Ivy call and “reschedule” a OV 2 days before we were to be there. How did we feel? Like that’s the way things sometimes go- It’s expected that these things sometimes happen during this process.</p>
<p>Wow- you were jetted accoss the country and taken to dinner? Given prime tickets to sports events? We must have signed up for the wrong OV’s. We simply dropped our D off and left. </p>
<p>No wonder you went to all 5 OV’s!</p>
<p>my D only went on 3 OV’s. but all three required jets:)</p>
<p>rescheduling is way different than canceling, but I can see from your arguments you don’t see the difference. So wow, there’s just a big difference in how we raise kids. I’m big on when someone offers you an opportunity and you accept that opportunity you need to follow through to hear and see that opportunity. Plus, its a small world and your reputation follows you. </p>
<p>it never occurred to my D or us, to cancel. Not after multiple phone calls, emails, and months and months of courting. Seemed rude not to give the 3 you promised to visit an actual visit:)</p>
<p>No, once your mind has been made up you’re not doing the coach any favors by going through the charade of a visit - eating their food, inconveniencing the athletes who host you, taking up time with the coaching staff, ground transportation, etc. The coach should have sent you a thank you rather than a bill.</p>
<p>alright, let’s use football as an example. you’re the number 1 recruit in the country and you’re set to go to your dream school, UofT. Nothing will budge you off that.</p>
<p>But you promised another coach a visit, say USC. You get to LAX and Will Ferrell is there to pick you up in his Mazzarati (which Will does for some recruits, it’s either him or Marcus Allen in his Ferrari, or snoop dog, i kid you not). And after 48 hours, guess what, you have a new dream school!</p>
<p>That’s what coaches are trying to do (although in a smaller way for most sports), so it’s not valid to say you’re doing them a favor by canceling. By canceling you’re being a kid because you found your dream, or your tired, or whatever, but you’re not acting like collegiate athlete who is respectful to their coach or potential coach.</p>
<p>what’s next, you don’t feel like going to practice? Just cancel, should be easy to cancel going to practice, you’re already practiced at it!</p>
<p>During this past year we have found College Confidential a wonderful sourse of information. In re-reading tonight’s posts, I find the some of the derogatory comments posted (such as Patcheights “take the wheels off and call it home”) not in keeping with the usual helpful and friendly tone of these pages. Let’s keep these pages helpful- not negitive.</p>
<p>Interesting discussion with a lot of different points of view.</p>
<p>I am still struggling to understand why it is hard to process that this is a fairly high stakes endeavor where all parties are acting in their own best interests. Each sports has its norms and relationships, but at the end of the day its about the school’s need, the athlete’s performance, and the relative leverage that each party has.</p>
<p>Perhaps I’m a little jaded because of my DS’s sport (turn on ESPN this evening and catch a few minutes of the 24 hour NCAA basketball marathon to catch a profile of the athlete’s in our sport - #33 on Louisville’s team is a NE prep product- [YouTube</a> - Batty Roundball Classic 2009- Mike Marra '09 (Louisville) windmill dunk. Northfield Mount Hermon.](<a href=“Batty Roundball Classic 2009- Mike Marra '09 (Louisville) windmill dunk. Northfield Mount Hermon. - YouTube”>Batty Roundball Classic 2009- Mike Marra '09 (Louisville) windmill dunk. Northfield Mount Hermon. - YouTube) ). There is a lot of money and lives being affected here. Even in the Ivies, consider the impact of Cornell’s Sweet Sixteen run last season on its prestige, finances, and desirability among applicants that want to attend a school with a high profile sports program. This year, in the face of the benefits accrued to Cornell, there are four new men’s basketball coaches in the Ivy League - Penn’s coach was fired mid-season last year.) Recruiting is being expanded and the AI hurdles for basketball recruits are being loosened (presumable at the expense of the non-revenue sports in order to comply to Ivy League standards.)</p>
<p>I know that there are diverse participants on this board. Most of the athletes participate in non-revenue sports. From the friends I have in the lacrosse and soccer world (in which my son also participated before his height got the best of him), many of these sports are intimate (even a little clubby) with tight knit communities and norms and mores represent of the backgrounds of the majority of the participants in these sports. </p>
<p>I respect the different feelings and attitudes being expressed on this topic. Please extend your understanding of the different circumstances that many of the athlete’s and their families have before projecting absolute and rigid values and solutions to deal with complex and individual situations. I’ll assure you that there are no “one size fits all” set of solutions that apply.</p>
<p>I am the recruite and I would no more make a decision based on meeting a movie star than I would skip a practice.<br>
Canceling OVs is not about being lazy. Its about missing fall sporting events for teams that I have committed to be a part of and maintaining my grades so that I can be sure I am accepted to the college I want to attend. Once I had made my final college choice, I wanted to return to my other commitments and not waste my time, the college teams time, my hs teams success, and give other recruite a chance at a LL.<br>
A meeting with Will Feral would be cool, but not worth letting down my hs teammates.</p>
<p>glick: you’re the one who said: “holy than thou” attitude" and you hope i didn’t pass that on to my daughter."</p>
<p>your comments are derogatory, so you should be able to take a little joke about wheels. and if you don’t want snarky comments coming at you than you shouldn’t pop off to begin with. </p>
<p>my opinion of not canceling OV’s is just my value, it’s not holy. jeeez, I just don’t think it’s a good idea why is that so disruptive to you? Or is no one suppose to disagree with you?</p>
<p>fastrack: consider the coach you just signed with, you love the team, love the school, love the coach, and now cancel on them. is that who you want to be?</p>
<p>or how about you’re having a party, and people that earlier rsvp’d are calling you up and saying I’m not coming I’m going to another party instead.</p>
<p>how does that make you feel? </p>
<p>you know coaches are people to</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Pacheight I have to admit I’m having a hard time understanding your perspective. I have been the hiring manager or central player in the hiring of about 100 people and the above comment makes no sense to me at all. So the alternative is an applicant has a visit planned to our business site and accepts another offer before the actual trip to our company (this happens all the time). There are two ways this can go
- The candidate calls us up, thanks us for the interest, and tells us about their other offer and cancels the trip … and maybe we eat a plane ticket
- The candidate accepts another offer and still comes on a trip to our company … and now has cost us a plane ticket, hotel stay, rent-a-car, and meals … as well as the time of the people on site who interview her/him … and then tells us they have already accpeted a job at another company. And we are supposed to think this is the more honorable choice? Or they come on the visit to our company and decide to join our company and renig on their acceptance to the first company … and this is honorable?</p>
<p>Folks on both sides of recruitment understand how it works … and from my perspective … both parties owe the other honesty and communication as soon as possible after decisions are made so the other party knows what the situation is.</p>
<p>pacheight</p>
<p>You reference the relationships between the recruiting coaches and the athletes like they are social in nature (rsvp’ing, etc.).</p>
<p>While the vast majority of the coaches are good people, with the best interest of the athlete in mind, that concerns pales in comparison to their obligations to their families and their school. They are charged with identifying the best prospects possible and gaining their commitment to attend their school and participate on their team.</p>
<p>This is a business relationship. There are certain obligations. Don’t lie. Do what you say you are going do. If things change, give adequate notice. Once your decision is made, communicate clearly and directly.</p>
<p>Since analogies are creeping into this thread, let’s assume you are buying an automobile (clearly a less critical decision that a school, but still important). Initially you are scanning the market. You form relationships with sales people at several dealerships. They are all eager to help you meet your need (and sell a car). You settle on going further with three different models at three dealerships. You call and make appointments with each sales person. At the second dealership, you decide that this is the car for you. In your mind, you are sure you need to look no further. You purchase the car.</p>
<p>But what about the third salesman. He had set aside time for you. He had the car you were interested in detailed. He told his boss you would be there. And you only called an hour before to cancel. Is your cancellation inappropriate. You have used his time and resources. You have denied him a chance to convince you that his vehicle is the best for you. You have embarrassed him in front of his boss. Such bad form - if you are engaged in a social relationship, not a business one.</p>
<p>What the last sales person gave up is called the cost of doing business. Did you owe it to the sales person to show up anyway, even after you had made your decision? Were you obligated to spend your time and resources unnecessarily?</p>
<p>Absolutely not. This is business. You acted in good faith until you made your decision and then you notified the salesman of your choice and cancelled the appointment. Perhaps you should compensate him for detailing the car.</p>
<p>The same holds true for the plane ticket in question. Things change and people’s plans change. The coach chose to potentially save a few dollars, but put the whole investment at risk if their was a change in plans by purchasing a non-refundable ticket. This was his choice. This is the school’s cost of doing business. It’s unsaid, but he was probably more upset that he failed to deliver this particular high level prospect for an OV. This is one of the ways he is evaluated.</p>
<p>This is business. The coaches make every attempt to cloud this process with feel-good interaction. They want you to feel obligated to them. That’s there objective.</p>
<p>I normally would not grind on this to this extent, but there are families reading this thread whose athlete may not have the performance of your child or the leverage she had in her decision making.</p>
<p>Key to getting through these discussions is an understanding of everyone’s motives and managing the relationships appropriately, but effectively, to the benefit of the athlete.</p>
<p>I remember how fuzzy and confusing the recruiting process was, and how much time we spent trying to interpret every spoken or written word of the coaches, in an attempt to accurately assess the school’s level of interest and the strength of our D’s position with regard to that particular team. In some cases, both parties are dancing around a commitment until all their respective ducks are in row. Therefore, I think it’s understandable that there will be misreading and misunderstanding. It’s unfortunate that the OP’s family tried to do the honorable thing given how they viewed the process, but the coach didn’t see it the same way.</p>
<p>At the same time, I tend to agree with pacheight about the purpose of the OV: to give the school a chance to sell you their program. The time to eliminate schools you know for sure you’re not sufficiently interested in, is BEFORE accepting an OV from them. That’s what unofficial visits and other types of prior research are for–to narrow down the list of schools to only those 5 or fewer you would most prefer to attend. And if you already know in advance you will be offered a LL or NLI at all of the ones you visit, then there is even less reason to schedule a visit with any school you are already convinced that you don’t like as much as the others. After all, being in this position means you are a highly desirable recruit and are the one doing the choosing, rather than begging to be chosen. Thus, by agreeing to come on a visit, you are saying you are interested enough in the school to let the coach try to woo you. So once you commit to go, I think you should. Not only is that being polite, frankly it’s also in your own best interest to fully consider all your options. Some of the inherent fuzziness of this dance disappears when you visit and read all the clues that are only visible seen from that vantage point. Who knows if your ranking of schools will be completely reordered after the OV’s are completed? That happened with D! Also, as was pointed out, college athletics is a small world of musical chairs. The coach you cancelled on could end up being YOUR new coach in a year or two!</p>
<p>Pacheight- You should re-read posts from the start. I am not the one who said “holier than…” I will repeat that this is not the place for derogatory comments. If you re-read carefully you will see I didn’t “pop off”.</p>
<p>In todays environment there are many people who are living in cars and shelters. Your comment was not appropriate. We are blessed to have scholar athletes being recruited at some of the best colleges in the world. We should all be grateful to be in this position.</p>