<p>In addition to SATI, Wellesley requires 2 SATII scores. Did you send them and how well did you do on them? It was not clear from your OP. According to the numbers posted on the Wellesley forum, Wellesley admits close to 50% of its ED applicants (many are deferred). Your SATs are just a fraction of the whole picture, since this is one of the colleges that pays very close attention to the other parts of the application (your GPA, ECs, your “Why Wellesley?” essay, etc.). If your application file paints a picture of you that adcoms like, your chances of getting in are not that slim - my unhooked, very average (by CC standards) young lady from overrepresented part of the US attends Wellesley.</p>
<p>
That threshold, at Wellesley, is a score level of around ~550 – we know that from the numbers Wellesley has published, as it is the point when we start seeing a significant drop off in admissions rates. (Since we don’t have the ability to look at all 3 scores, I’ll weight it up slightly and guess that the threshold is around the 1800 mark – but the point is that 1970 is well within range for Wellesley.)</p>
<p>I think the problem is that the common data set happens to adopt the metrics of looking at middle 50% score range, which leads people to focus on the 25th percentile as if it were a cutoff. (And some people compound that error by looking at the 75th percentile as if it were a cutoff). It doesn’t work that way – 25% is still a big chunk of the admissions pool. Statistically, you probably want to go down to -2 standard deviations to arrive at the level where scores are a deal breaker.</p>
<p>Xani: Your 4 years of High School Record (Academic and Non Academic) will have more weight in to the admission than the SAT1 score. But even then SAT1 is important.
Your is on lower (25th percentile) side so your high school record has to be on the higher (75th percentile) side to be able to have a good shot.</p>
<p>Not to break out Venn diagrams or anything like that, there is one thing I don’t understand about this “hook” debate. Why does it seem like everyone assumes that every hooked candidate, or at least a large percentage of them, falls in the lower 25% of scores. For example, a legacy is a “hook” and I suspect that legacy candidates have at least, and probably more competitive stats than any other typical candidate.</p>
<p>So even if 40% are hooked, that doesn’t necessarily mean they all occupy the lowest 40% stats, leaving only the upper 60% to the “unhooked.”</p>
<p>I also wonder whether that 40% hook statistic (assuming it’s accurate) applies to Wellesley. Does it recruit athletes the same way other schools do?</p>
<p>To the OP: The daughter of a good friend of mine got into Wellesley ED with SAT scores similar to yours – she had no hooks at all.</p>
<p>Xani- </p>
<p>You don’t have a technical typical hook, but people here seem to not know something. The fact that you’ve applied ED <em>AND</em> want to go into the Sciences says something. I took one science AP (Environmental) and they sent me an email straight away about my interest in science. </p>
<p>Take a look:</p>
<p>"Wellesley is widely recognized as one of the nation’s best colleges. Our students enjoy some of the finest facilities and most generous funding available to science undergraduates anywhere. </p>
<p>With a student-faculty ratio of 8:1, Wellesley classes are small and are taught by professors who are accomplished and devoted scholars, teachers, and mentors to our students. </p>
<p>Students who pursue the sciences at Wellesley conduct research with faculty as early as their first year, often co-authoring the published results. </p>
<p>Students present work at national meetings and train on equipment comparable to that found in top research universities, including nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectrometers, a confocal microscope, high-power pulsed tunable lasers, and a gas chromatograph-mass spectrometer, to name a few. This equipment is wholly dedicated to undergraduate research. </p>
<p>Minority and first-generation students are invited to participate in a program sponsored by the Howard Hughes Medical Institute. Students in this program enjoy one-on-one relationships with professors who mentor them through their first two years of college.</p>
<p>Wellesley maintains a long and storied history of educating women in the sciences. Our distinguished alumnae in the sciences include the first woman to earn a doctorate in mathematics at MIT, the first woman to receive the Draper Medal from the National Academy of Sciences, and the first woman to be named a full professor at Harvard Medical School. With superb graduate program acceptance and job placement rates, this impressive record of achievement continues today. </p>
<p>For an overview of the many reasons why Wellesley students excel in the sciences, math, and computer science, please visit our website: [Admit:</a> Science - 10 Reasons](<a href=“http://www.wellesley.edu/Admission/science/science_10reasons.html]Admit:”>http://www.wellesley.edu/Admission/science/science_10reasons.html). </p>
<p>[student request for info here]</p>
<p>You are also welcome to write directly to our science faculty at <a href=“mailto:thesciences@wellesley.edu”>thesciences@wellesley.edu</a>. </p>
<p>Sincerely, </p>
<p>Nancy H. Kolodny ‘64
Professor of Chemistry and
the Nellie Zuckerman Cohen and Anne Cohen Heller Professor in the Health Sciences"</p>
<p>Try asking questions, show some interest? If you’re a minority this will help even more. ^_^</p>
<p>I can’t say you’ll get in, but I can say you’ll be glad you tried!</p>
<p>EDIT: This letter would have been great if it weren’t for the fact that: 1.) I decided not to apply to Wellesley and 2.) I’m interested in the Humanities! XD</p>
<p>Out of curiosity, I dug through the admissions material I saved from my D.</p>
<p>The brochure I have listed the Class of 2008’s AVERAGE TEST SCORES as:</p>
<p>SAT VERBAL=698
SAT MATH=678
Also, ACT=29 and
TOEFL=629(paper)</p>
<p>I do think these may be slightly out of date, but not so much that it would create a huge disparity.</p>
<p>The brochure also says:</p>
<p>“At Wellesley, admission decisions are never based on a single factor. Academic achievement, motivation, and creativity are all important attributes for Wellesley candidates for admission.”</p>
<p>“Among the factors used to evaluate your application when you apply: High school record, level of challenge of high school curriculum, extracurricular involvement, rank in class, letters of recommendation, essay, standardized tests, demonstrated leadership, special talent, interview.”</p>
<p>In a letter from the Dean of Admission encouraging my D to attend, she listed the talents (of some of the admittees) as: "aerial dancer, a pilot, a volunteer firefighter, a ballerina, a belly dancer, a fly-fishing enthusiast, a Chinese brush painter, an organic farmer, an apprentice chef, an aspiring food critic, a Celtic fiddler, a documentary filmmaker, an EMT, and competitive athletes, including a curler, figure skaters, runners, rowers, golfers and fencers. " Adding that Wellesley women are “active in student government and community service, and truly exemplify Wellesley’s mission to educate women who will make a difference in the world.” And that volunteers have participated in “human rights organizations addressing issues from public health to child trafficking, launched nonprofit programs to donate books and medical supplies to communities in need around the world and closer to home.” As well as conducting scientific research in “nanotechnology, molecular neurogenetics, geophysical sciences and cognitive psychology,” … “designing projects to study Parkinson’s disease, hydraulic jump mechanics, the growth and development of the horseshoe crab, and the domestication of the huckleberry.” </p>
<p>I think this shows that Wellesley is interested in a certain type of candidate and that test scores alone do not make the Wellesley woman.</p>
<p>Wellesley’s median score range (based on mosts recent available statistics) is: </p>
<p>SAT Critical Reading: 640 - 740<br>
SAT Math: 630 - 730<br>
SAT Writing: 650 - 740</p>
<p>Wow, this has elicited an amazing response!
Thank you again to everyone who has contributed, I appreciate it!</p>
<p>While I am worrying a bit over college (who doesn’t?), I think I can relax a bit now.</p>
<p>My main question was about the representation of SAT scores.
Most students who seek out the CC community are in the higher score range, and most suggestions on “Chance Me” threads for Top Unis/LACs ect. mention something about a 2100+ SAT.</p>
<p>From the replies I have received, I am assuming that the actual importance of the SAT varies depending on the school. </p>
<p>I’m assuming from the many replies that it is safe</p>
<p>I looked at some of your posts on the other forums–I see that your SAT II scores are quite good for Bio & Lit and that you have a range of AP scores from 5 to 2. So, you are capable of scoring well on standardized tests, but unfortuantely you are not consistent.</p>
<p>Why do you think that is? Do you stress out too much sometimes?</p>
<p>That said, there is a Dec 5, 2009 SAT offered if you are really worried that you won’t get in ED and want to improve your RD chances.</p>
<p>^^ I can attribute my 2 & 3 on the AP’s tests to several things:
They were my first two AP tests and in my Sophomore year. Also, I am lousy at Government.</p>
<p>I do worry and stress a lot, but I can’t blame anything on that. haha</p>
<p>Calmom, those were very wise posts.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thank you! :)</p>
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<p>Statistically, the deal would be “broken” long before you got to - 2 standard deviations. In a normal bell curve distribution, a span two standard deviations from the mean will contain ~97% of the entire population. Saying you have to be in the last 3% of the population before you can really be counted out seems way overly optimistic to me.</p>
<p>“Overexaggerated” is a pretty bad one, too. It’s just “exaggerated”. The “over” part is redundant.</p>
<p>Peace, out.</p>
<p>Based on everything I have seen, I tend to agree with hmom5. I have seen her posts for a long time, and in almost all cases, her opinions are actually right on the mark. Well, this is just my opinion, so let’s not get into a fight over this.</p>
<p>One thing I noticed in general whenever folks here get into a heated argument is the fact our belief often reflects our bias and desire. </p>
<p>For instance, parents whose kids turned down a tippy top private school and opted a public university with a great merit award WOULD LIKE TO believe that their kids did not miss anything out by not having gone for the big names. On the other hand, parents who are paying through the nose for the expensive private school WOULD LIKE TO believe that the diploma from Ivy and the like is a real game changer. Hence, we tend to argue endlessly defending the choices we already made rather than the pure merit of the choices from a completely objective perspective. Often it’s ourselves that we want to convince most rather than other people who hold different opinions. Nobody wants to be plagued by an endless self doubt of “what if”.</p>
<p>Same thing about private vs. public high schools. The same about SAT scores. I have seen parents discount or inflate the importance of SAT. And surprise!!! Often it’s the parents whose kids’ weakness is SAT that play down the importance of SAT, while the parents whose kids’ excellent SAT scores must compensate for some other weakness play up the importance of SAT. </p>
<p>Well, with regard to SAT, I can be very balanced. S1 is a minor genius when it comes to standardized tests. He got 1430/1600 in the 8th grade when he was tested for some special program, and in the 11th grade got 2400 first try without even finishing a single practice test at home. On the other hand, standardized tests are S2’s nightmare - a true Achilles heel. Life is so unfair, isn’t it? S2 blames his brother for using up the family quota for test taking genes. (on the other hand, S2 got a lot of genes for good looks 
)</p>
<p>So, what am I doing??? I steered my high school junior S2 into early diagnostic mock SAT tests, and based on the results, I have arranged intense one-on-one private tutoring (today was first day: went very well!). This is going to go on until it is no longer necessary (hopefully no later than next June). We started this well in advance with ample room for course correction and additional help, so that we don’t panic at the last minute with sub par SAT scores. Why did I do this? Because:</p>
<p>(1) No matter what the adcoms say, SAT is an important factor (otherwise, why are they all put down SAT scores as REQUIREMENT?). “How important” is subject to discussion, but scores DO MATTER.</p>
<p>(2) SAT is the EASIEST factor to correct and improve upon. You can’t go back to past and do better with GPA in freshman and sophomore years. You can’t suddenly start 100 wonderful ECs overnight in the spring semester of JR year. But, you can prep for SAT and come up with your personal best. When everything is down to wire, why would you NOT work on one factor that is easily susceptible to tinkering (as in, prep course, etc - I am being facetious here). </p>
<p>So, in my mind, telling students and themselves that SATs don’t matter that much is counterproductive and not helpful. It may make us feel good for a while, but how does it help the students in their quest to come up with the best possible strategy for getting into their dream school? Whether is it as important as some claim to be is a secondary question. As long as it is part of the criteria, and as long as it is the most localized and easiest thing to fix, not fixing it because we want to believe that it’s not that important is not a smart strategy. </p>
<p>S2’s mock tests puts him down at around 1700-1800/2400. My hope is, he will be able to raise it to 2000 (super scored): already this puts him in a very good position for his ideal school and an ROTC scholarship at that school (full tuition, fees, books plus monthly stipend: all together worth about $180K!!!) . I think this is pretty doable given that a big part of his problem is a weakness in test taking tactics and a lack of understanding in what they were looking for in the writing section. His personal goal is 2100 (single test), we will see. </p>
<hr>
<p>P.S. I have extensive training in statistics. I looked at enrolled students’ SAT score distribution in many top colleges. My conclusion??? There is practically no chance from statistical and probabilistic point of view that SAT scores were NOT important part of admission decisions, not withstanding the adcoms loud protests otherwise (the lady doth protest too much). Without that explanation, there is no way the enrolled students stats fall where they do. Well, I don’t want to get into this heated debate again. If you are interested, I will send you a link to the analysis I performed that I posted on other threads. </p>
<p>Peace! We are not trying to change the system on this board. We are dealt with a deck of cards. Let’s play them as well as we can and help our kids.</p>
<p>Whenever I read Calmom’s posts on women’s colleges–rightly or not–what I see and hear is “oh. just ignore stats, my daughter got into Barnard with below 25th percentile scores so you can too.”</p>
<p>And while I know nada about Calmom’s DD, I’ve just assumed she was a candidate who had something very significant to offer beyond scores that Barnard wanted. The simple FACT is that someone with below 25th percentile scores who does not have something they really want is left outside the gate.</p>
<p>While women’s colleges, in general, have lost their day in the sun and take less to get into thean they did in the dark ages when many of us entered colleges, the 25th percentile means about the same at them as at any other colleges–most with them will be rejected.</p>
<p>They recruit athletes, have legacies, URMs, staff kids and even a few development–leaving little room for the unconnected at the bottom of their pool. Simple fact.</p>
<p>OP</p>
<p>I don’t know your story. If this was the umpteenth SAT you took with some prep in between, let it rest. However, if there is a reason to believe that this is an under reporting of your “true” score (meaning, you did not really prep or this was only the first test, etc), then I don’t think it’s a bad idea for you take another one on Dec. The reasons:</p>
<p>(1) If you don’t get ED acceptance, you still have to compete for RD and other schools.</p>
<p>(2) There are schools that give out merit awards, and in many cases, SAT is an important part of the merit award decision.</p>
<p>(3) Believe it or not (I was quite amazed when I learned this), some (yes, NOT ALL) employers hiring freshly minted bachelor’s degree holders ask for their SAT scores (most notably tippy top Wall Street firms like Goldman Sachs). So, depending on what you want to do, your SAT scores may cast a really long shadow.</p>
<hr>
<p>Standardized tests are a fact of life. If you have any ambition for graduate education, almost all reputable graduate schools require some form of standardized tests. I had to take GRE, and later GMAT also, and both were very important part of the admission decisions. I hear that LSAT scores are extremely important for law school admission. So, you see, there is no escaping!!! (sigh for my S2!!!)</p>
<p>^The OP wants to major in biology. Of course, plans do change, but I highly doubt (based on her preferences and strengths) that she’ll be going to either law school or business school in the future. And she’s probably not unethical enough to want to work at Goldman Sachs (semi-joking.) I don’t believe her SAT scores, which are not THAT awful, will haunt her for the rest of her life. She’s anxious enough without dumping that on her.</p>
<p>It’s one thing to give the young lady advice she asked for, but quite another to scare the **** out of her. What happened to the sensitive soul with the orchid metaphor?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Ii don’t understand this sentiment. Sharing straightforward facts without any harsh words - why is it considered “dumping on her or scaring her” It’s not like the poster was making things up. Don’t shoot the messenger. </p>
<p>Also, if I were Xani, I would rather hear this since it gives me a choice of what to do and what not do to. I may not like the fact that SAT scores may cast a long shadow, but if it does, I would rather know it now so that I can do something about that while I can if I choose to act upon it.</p>
<p>I come to the parents forum since most of the input students give each other is pretty pathetic: like the blind leading the blind. We are a sturdy bunch. Don’t treat us like porcelain dolls. We would rather hear the facts. We will make a decision. I hope the wise parents are not self censoring in fear of scaring us. As long as the language is civil, we can take it (even uncivil languages - trust me, we dealt with worse at school).</p>