I’m wondering if I even have the slimmest chance of admission at top schools like Duke, or a level down, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Tufts, etc.
I have an excellent GPA (~3.9 unweighted out of 4), a very heavy courseload (took 4 APs so far, all 5’s, many honors classes that don’t offer APs) at a well-renowned private prep school (that doesn’t rank), strong EC’s, lots of community service, and I’ll have great recs and excellent essays.
However, I didn’t do too hot on my SATs, my math (610) and verbal (670) scores are below most of the schools I really like. My writing score, however, was an 800; I missed no multiple choice questions and got a 12/12 on the essay.
I’m retaking the SAT, but I’m not expecting the scores to go much higher because I’m trying not to get my hopes up. I hope I can break 700 with the verbal (since I got a 780 on my PSAT and I qualified for the national merit scholarship), and I hope to get above a 650 on the math since math has never been my strong suit.
Are my SAT scores going to REALLY hurt my chances, or do you think they can be overcome with all my other strengths?
<p>If you are white or asian, you won't get into those schools with less than average (for the school) scores. They just have too many candidates that have all the numbers. Given that most of the below average scores are those of athletes/URM/development candidates, most white and asian aceptees with have closer to the 75% scores.</p>
<p>SAT 1 scores are as important as your transcript at some schools. At schools like Duke, you don't want an adcom to have to lower his/her class average to accept someone with below average stats, unless they nationally-ranked in something. However, the math portion is the easiest for which to practice. With your strong psat score, your sat was probably just a bad day. Practice each weekend till Oct and you can raise your total score, which would drastically improve your chances.</p>
<p>Suze, I see you comment a lot, and I think that you severely overestimate the importance of SAT scores. While I see what you're talking about and I obviously wouldn't be posting if I didn't fear that it might be true, I don't believe that SAT scores are really the be-all end-all of admissions. For example, Harvard rejects many applicants with perfect numbers in favor of those that offer more personally or extra-curricularly.</p>
<p>Also, let's not forget that the Class of '10 is getting a break on SAT scores since most colleges don't quite know what to make of the new SAT yet. I don't like it when people say that it's the same as the old one if you eliminate the writing; that's not true. It was about 50% longer, laid out differently, and contained different types of questions. Although I achieved a great score on the PSATs, the extra time, strange "switching" layout where all the math and english were intermingled, and other factors lead me to do much more poorly, and I think colleges are (to some extent) taking that into account.</p>
<p>Plus, I did get an 800 on one section! And writing happens to be the subject area in which I most excel, and my transcript, EC's, awards, and recs will reflect that.</p>
<p>Semi, colleges care a great deal about their rankings. They are in competition with one another. If you look at the numbers, SAT scores have gone up at every elite college each year for several years now. They will for several more years. There are clearly many people that can get in with below average scores as the top colleges have their pick of many, many with perfect or near perfect scores. So they do a balancing act. They get the athletes to fill their team, the URMs for their needed diversity, the development candidates to keep the money rolling in and the exceptionally accomplished to have stars in every arena. After that they fill the rest of the class, and those people need to have numbers to make the stats jump again that year. What's the mystery?</p>
<p>As for a break on SAT scores, many colleges will not be considering writing this year as they wait for the college board to get this together. Many did far worse on the new writing segment than the old SATII writing, leading many to worry that they don't have the scoring down. They are using a wide range of scorers and don't have consistent methodology down. But no way the math and cr scores will not rise again this year. So just go for it, work your a** off to raise your scores!</p>
<p>semiserious, I think you have a chance at the schools you mentioned with those scores, but why not just ask the college counselors at your high school. They are your best source. The counselors know where students with similar stats were accepted.</p>
<p>I think the role of SAT's in the college admissions process has diminished slightly over the years. Colleges tend to place less emphasis on SAT scores as they did a decade ago and focus more on EC's and personal qualities. However, the fact of the matter remains that they are still a significant part of your application. </p>
<p>Consider these statistics of the 25%-75% range of the schools you're applying to. (Note: These numbers are taken from CollegeBoard and are probably outdated. I expect the averages have increased since then).</p>
<p>Your current 1280 places you below average for all the schools you listed. Even if you retake and score a 700 CR and a 650 M (a combined total of 1350), you only meet the average for Wake Forest. If I were you, I'd study math intensely this summer and raise both CR and Math to a solid 1400. It's not terribly difficult if you follow the Xiggi Method and all the advice posted on the SAT forum. </p>
<p>It's a bit ridiculous not to prepare for the SAT's as much as you can. Your 1280 clashes with your 3.9. A stronger SAT score will strengthen your application while a low one gives off the impression that you work hard for your grades but are not a strong overall student. Schools like Duke and Tufts whose admission rates hover in the 20's might reject you just because of your SAT score.</p>
<p>While I think SATs are important and it is key to try to get you score above the average to remain competitive, I don't see how a 3-hour test can trump 4 or more years of hard work in extracurricular activities or college level classes. Study, and try to get your SAT/ACT as high as possible, but don't base your entire application around one number.</p>
<p>How did you get a 78 V on the PSAT and only a 670 V on the SAT? </p>
<p>Take practice tests to bring your score up... also, check out the SAT-II's. Those could really bring you up, especially if you apply to a school that uses AI.</p>
<p>Have you looked up your colleges on collegeboard? If you go under the tab labeled "Admission," you can see how colleges prioritize SAT scores. For example, Duke says that SAT scores are "Very Important," but Tufts only finds them to be "Important."</p>
<p>I dont think SAT scores are as important as people make them out to be. I've heard of many students with perfect SAT scores who got rejected from top colleges.</p>
<p>A private college counselor says (on his national speaking circuit): "Great scores won't get you in, but low scores will keep you out." A 1500 (old format) is a check-off, and just means the adcom moves onto other parts of the app to see if there is a good fit. But, a 1200-1300 for a non-hooked candidate is likely to automatically go to the reject pile without further review. No adcom can defend a recommendation that will lower their stats, unless that app has a serious hook. </p>
<p>Moreover, I do not think there will be any "break" for this year's SAT bcos: 1) there are just more kids applying to top schools, and stats are an easy way to make a first cut; 2) more kids scored a 2400 than CB had even remotely projected. Conclusion: new test ain't that difficult for some. IMO, the only SAT slack will be that adcoms will tend to ignore the Writing portion (excluding the UC's, of course).</p>
<p>A lot of people with perfect SAT scores do get rejected. But how frequently do hear that a person with a below average SAT gets into a top university? Also how frequently do you hear that someone with a below average SAT gets rejected by a top university? A lot more people with below average SAT scores get rejected than the people with 1600. I'm not saying that SAT is everything but many here are significantly understating its significance in the process.</p>
<p>"Great scores won't get you in, but low scores will keep you out."</p>
<p>I agree with that statement. Even though admissions is a lot less about SATs these days, the decrease emphasis applies mainly for the high-end scorers for elite admissions.</p>
<p>You should raise it up as much as possible.</p>
<p>The SATs matter because they are the only mehtod colleges have to combat grade inflation and put every applicanton a 'level' playing field. I get sort of frustrated when I see some students here trying to downplay the significance of the SAT, when if you read any book written by a former admissions officer, they will say in no uncertain terms "We weight SAT scores a lot" Be realistic, you can apply to any school you want, but with scores under or towards the bottom end of the range, you should know that your chances are slim.</p>
<p>Yeah, I had a strong suspicion that those numbers were way off. That's why I had a disclaimer. CollegeBoard hasn't updated the average SAT range of scores for schools for awhile.</p>
<p>Hate to say this, but it's absolutely obvious that SAT scores matter. Of course the college adcoms are going to feed you stories about how your personal qualities are oh-so important. But then again, is it easier for them to identify with a number or a story? </p>
<p>Statistic: At the top colleges (actually, Harvard in this case), a perfect SAT score results in about 50% (yeah, this doesn't imply that SAT scores don't matter.) Then getting 10 points less is less than 50%. The lower you go, the lower the percent admittance rate. So, yeah, the better you score, the better off you are. It's always a great tie-breaker too, (or a over-the fence kind of thing.) There's no such thing as "a 700 or more is good, it's all the same." The better you do, the better the odds you get in.</p>
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While I think SATs are important and it is key to try to get you score above the average to remain competitive, I don't see how a 3-hour test can trump 4 or more years of hard work in extracurricular activities or college level classes.
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<p>A 3 hour test's result can be easily seen, understood, compared, used. 4 or more years hard work are much more vague, hard to understand, compare, etc... </p>
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Study, and try to get your SAT/ACT as high as possible, but don't base your entire application around one number.
<p>one of the Ivies boasted how their admissions this year was (if I remember correctly) ~40% Vals, ~30 Sals, etc. THOSE are the kids who can "slide" by on a 'mere' 1450, IMO.</p>
<p>Semi: if you are from The OC, unless you live in Santa School District, adcoms will expect a fine suburban school, and matching test scores. The expectations of adcoms are just higher for suburbanites.</p>
<p>I go to a very respected private school where many kids recieve high scores with little or no prep, but I also notice that many students with lower scores get into top schools, I assume because of my school's excellent reputation. My friend's sister got into Vanderbilt two years ago with a 1220 and a 3.7 GPA. I realize that was 2 years ago the average is a bit higher nowadays, but it gives me some hope.</p>
<p>Are adcoms really going to weigh it just like the old SAT and ignore the writing (translating what was a 2080 into just a 1280)? I really don't feel that it can be translated like that; the new SAT was very different from the old SAT/PSAT. Also, I read that Vanderbilt's projected average on the new SAT is a 2050, which I am above--unfortunately, all the weight is in one area. </p>
<p>I honestly have no idea how my scores dropped so drastically from PSAT to SAT. I qualified as a NM semifinalist! Maybe I just had a bad day, I don't know. I looked at the questions I missed and I only missed 10 on each section, a total of 20. It doesn't seem like missing 20 out of the 300 something questions should really be worth that huge of a drop, but I don't get to decide. :(</p>