Overly involved parents

Applying to College
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An article worth reading from admissions dean at MIT

Parents get too aggressive on admissions
By Marilee Jones

Last April, a few weeks after sending the acceptance/rejection letters for the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Class of 2006, I received a reply from a father of one of our applicants. It was curt and written on his corporate letterhead: “You rejected my son. He’s devastated. See you in court. ”All threats aside, receiving a letter like this never warms anyone in admissions. The very next day, I received another letter, but this time from the man’s son. It read: “Thank you for not admitting me to MIT. This is the best day of my life. ”And so it goes. More and more, today’s parents are getting too involved in their child’s college-admissions process, and in many cases, their actions and attitudes are getting out of hand…

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<p>Amen, Amen, Amen...we've seen this all along...from the over-involved mom at the preschool to the overbearing dad coaching the Little League team, to the parents suing the HS over the val/sal issue.....gosh, when do the kids get to just be kids and then how do they ever grow up sane??</p>

<p>Our neighbors held a grad. party on Thurs. night for their son with inflatable slides, clowns, a DJ....the kids 'graduated' from kindergarten!!!! There are several threads on CC that mention how students don't think they can stand the concept of a shared or communal bathroom or even the dorm room itself....am guessing the problem is not really the bathroom or dorm room - it's more the apparently unknown concept of 'sharing' at all in those households.</p>

<p>Good heavens, people...please get over yourselves and let these kids breathe!!</p>

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<p>...except for the tiny, tiny little problem for those who live 3 or more hours distant in time zone. Sorry, but my D who already arises quite early for a considerable commute to h.s., was not about to arise an <em>additional</em> half-hour or so early so that the time frames would allow her to connect with a distant admissions office. (And by the time her school day was done, the college offices were long closed. Cell phones do not work in virtually all areas of the school building, so similarly calls were not possible at noon, for example, on this <em>closed</em> campus.) A few times I had to call on her behalf for clarification on some procedure or critical deadline: at those times, I would mention the time zone problem, make the question brief & business-like, & often ask how my D should next proceed if <em>she</em> had further questions, etc.</p>

<p>And frankly, most of the calls I made (didn't make many) had nothing to do with her obligations regarding apps, etc. They had to do with financial docs required of the parents/guardians. (You know those little -- uh large -- areas on documents with headings that say "PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN.")</p>

<p>Another teeny, weeny detail: Post offices have the same problem with regard to open/closed times. My D couldn't <em>personally</em> deliver these to the post offices, because she leaves before they're open & returns home after they're closed, & it was necessary to get confirmations of mailings -- Oh, just little things like certified mail, express mail, etc.</p>

<p>I think someone else (maybe MIT?), needs to get a reality check, or 2, or 3.</p>

<p>I would never write my own student's essays, go to an interview (!), etc. In fact, I did not accompany my D once on any college visit, including return visits. But I make no apologies for providing different & appropriate aid.</p>

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<p>wow, parents gone wild..............</p>

<p>is MIT THAT greater than GeorgiaTech?</p>

<p>i dont see a BIG difference</p>

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<p>Wow. I'm lucky my parents aren't anything like that. Infact... everything school related I've had to figure out and do all by myself.</p>

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<p>yeah for me it was a completely independent thing. my parents didnt know any of the schools I applied to or what were my top choices until I got in. I kinda liked it better that way</p>

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<p>Epiphany - I don't see you in the OP's article at all, really.</p>

<p>But I do have a question - in terms of logistics - why did you need to visit the post office at all? My kids never entered a post office in any of their college apps sagas - a simple stamp slapped on the envelope (or more - if they thought it needed it), purchased during a regular grocery trip, then drop the thing in the nearest mailbox....none of them had any problems with mail not getting to its destination undamaged and in plenty of time...either with their paperwork or ours (parents financial papers).</p>

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<p>beachy,
yes, mail does make it most of the time. OTOH, one of the six transcripts that our HS theoretically sent was never processed by the college it was sent to - a mere 25 miles away. It was the only one that didn't contain one of our reply card. My husband, who works at the college, had to make weekly visits to admissions to get it straightened out.</p>

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<p>Ohio_mom -</p>

<p>Ahhh...the HS guidance office - I can sympathize - ours is a glaring black hole in what is generally considered an otherwise pretty fine school district. And admissions offices certainly tend to 'temporarily misplace" (but never 'lose'!) some paperwork in the crush of apps....but I still don't get the certified and express mail thing being critical.</p>

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<p>If you parents would let your children do all these work for them, you would never have to stress about "mail not making it to the post office" <em>gasp</em></p>

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<p>parents like that, even if their kids get in to MIT they'll still have to get them into grad school and get them a job. it wont work forever</p>

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<p>and believe it or not, parents stay involved even when their kids are in college. they've been labeled helicopter moms. professors don't like them, and many universities have a policy that prohibits a teacher from talkiing to a parent without the students consent -- in writing.</p>

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<p>epiphany: that article is not discussing you or your situation, as you yourself noted:</p>

<p>"I would never write my own student's essays, go to an interview (!), etc. In fact, I did not accompany my D once on any college visit, including return visits."</p>

<p>you did not do those things, and the article refers to people that did...i don't see what the problem is, this doesn't refer to you</p>

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<p>beachy - there really are places that do not have postal boxes - ours are only at the post office - and several trips I have made to the post office cuz the DD was unable to get there when it was open due school hours and EC's she was involved in - so ya - this MOM was involved a bit but not overwhelmingly at all.</p>

<p>MCHS - actually once the kiddo turns 18 - the parents are not allowed to cross that line legally - without the students written permission - not just for college stuff - but for MD/health issues also.</p>

<p>My involvement now has been relegated to the financial aid pile - I get all the fun - well most of it anyways.</p>

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<p>A freshman was acting up at my HS, and the science teacher disciplined him...evidently, he was a little blunt (he's getting on in years, and he used to teach at a university level, so he's not used to "little kids"), and the kid ran home to his parents, who managed to get the teacher fired, no doubt via a threat of lawsuit (it's a private school, but it's running really low on funds). And that's at a <em>Christian</em> school...BTW, our school now no longer has a chemistry teacher OR a physics teacher OR a precalculus teacher OR a calculus teacher...all because of that one idiot...</p>

<p>Technically, I'm not supposed to know this...the parents shushed up the school administration...</p>

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<p>doctorrobert,
yes and no.
(1) While the article doesn't seem to address parents like myself, certainly replies #7 and #10 <em>do</em>. </p>

<p>Oh my gosh, imagine (<em>gasp</em>) being enough of a friend to submit someone else's documentation to a post office I'm already travleing to for my own needs -- on behalf of someone who is without a car, whose post office is in a crime-ridden part of town for a teenage girl traveling alone on public transportation, & who is working, & has worked, her buns off since maybe kindergraten or so (including school days of 6:45 a.m. to about 5 pm). </p>

<p>I'm glad that other people here are so trusting of the "local mail box." Ours is a joke. (not nearby, infrequent pick-ups, often vandalized, etc.). That's not to mention the fact that I personally never send my <em>own</em> documentation casually with a guess at the cost of a non-standard envelope, & lacking a postal scale at home. Not to mention the fact that an applicant (including her) often wants or needs last minute changes to an essay, or realized that she had forgotten to include something, while the app's receipt was time-sensitive.</p>

<p>You're all so right. It is definitely important to Teach That Lazy Girl A Lesson by forcing her to travel alone to said Crime City during dark hours of the evening [um, generally, her apps were due during Standard Time months, not Daylight Time months]. There have been maimings, murders, muggings, armed robberies near the only post office branch that is open after she comes home. That would be why she would need to learn Independence after all. No time like the present to scare her to death -- or to endanger her. I mean, this is the REAL meaning of parental love.</p>

<p>That would be teaching her absolutely nothing, except what it would prove about what a total jerk I was to do that.</p>

<p>(2) Mailing a letter (more like a package) is not being a helicopter Mom, but hey, who cares about such fine points of distinction? I think some of you need to check in with some of the helicopter <em>Dad's</em> on CC, btw. It seems that plenty of those Dads were the mail clerks in the family (as opposed to the Moms).</p>

<p>(3) There is a major imbalance in the whole admissions process. What the MIT adcom director is probably really upset about, is that even the tiniest bit of assistance from any adult -- be it counselor, parent, whatever -- affects the extreme imbalance of power that the colleges have been enjoying for so long. Not only do they not want their secrets known, or to have more disclosure about the process available to students & parents, their jobs will be far easier if they can exclude apps based on late receipt, incomplete info, etc. And if more students had to skip after-school extracurriculars in order to make daylight trips to post offices, that would make the adcom's jobs just so much easier. (Fewer qualified candidates to sort through).</p>

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<p>Epiphany - I must have hit a nerve with you somehow....I meant no disrespect with what I thought was a legit question. Judging by your last lengthy and ohhh-so-melodramatic post, I have insulted you and for that I humbly apologize.</p>

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<p>beachy,
apology accepted.</p>

<p>As to the "ohh-so-melodramatic," there was really only one paragraph in that post that could be described as "dramatic" of any sort. The other paragraphs were explanatory, for the benefit of those repliers (including yourself) who seem or seemed not to understand (by your own question) why anybody would actually need to visit a post office. The 4 categories of crime I named are recent & real -- not exaggerations or melodrama. Some of us really do live in urban areas, & need to rely on services that are unfortunately located in the most dangerous areas of town. My town has some lovely areas -- just for some reason not where any late-night post offices are located.</p>

<p>The "nerve" you hit was mostly the article itself. People --, Don't believe everything you read, & especially don't believe all that emanates from admissions committes for public consumption. It is ohh-so-melodramatic of them to talk about overly involved parents as if that situation is something of epidemic proportions. It is not. There is a small percentage of very over-the-top parents who can't let go, & who are control freaks. Sadly, they probably negatively affect their children's chances of admissions when they do <em>some</em> of the behaviors alleged by colleges, or witnessed occasionally by other families. But this is such an exception. They are just more memorable than the normal parents precisely because they're so visible!</p>

<p>Most of my D's friends also leave the house at 6:30 or 6:40 a.m. No post offices are open then (for customer business). On most days, they are all home after 5:30 pm after a variety of e.c.'s are completed. In some cases, that would be almost 10 pm on certain days. I'm only drawing it out because I doubt seriously as if they are unusual. It seems that that is the norm for those students -- across the country -- very engaged in various activities that they have committed to & really enjoy. Those other parents also make a trip or two to post offices on their behalf, after THE STUDENTS complete the apps & write the essays & draw up e.c. lists. I know several such parents, & they are not inappropriately or excessively involved any more than I am. Many of these parents are fathers.</p>

<p>Admissions committees like to whine, & parents are really fun to trash (including by other parents who are jealous or resentful because they are <em>under</em>involved), & I'm getting really tired of it. Sorry; I'll try not to react, I guess.</p>

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<p>it is definitely hard dealing with overly involved parents... this is especially true when they exert themselves upon you and force you to do what they want and go where they feel it would be best for you.</p>

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<p>I can relate to epiphany ... our kids left before 7:00 and were home at 5:30, often later. I mailed stuff and had to call the (MIT!) admission office a few times, as one of the teacher recommendations never reached them (or they lost it?) and we had to get another sent right away. (And I say "we" here without any apologies, as it was a joint effort between student, teacher, parent, and postal worker! :^))</p>

<p>I agree with the jist of Marilee's letter, though ... I don't think she is reacting to reasonable parents like epiphany and me. (Maybe she should have made that point better.) I think that there ARE parents who, instead of letting students do the work when they are perfectly able to do so, do the work for them. (I don't know any parents like that personally -- don't really want to know them -- but do believe they exist and can annoy the heck out of the folks in admissions offices.)</p>