Hi everyone! I’m going to apply for Law this fall of 2020 at the University of Oxford.
I’ve graduated from a top 20 public uni in the US (that also is very well-known from its name, but it’s not an Ivy League) with a double major GPa of 3.7+, so I’ve got As and A-s for almost all of my classes at my 2nd uni (I transferred half-way through because I just did not like my 1st uni choice at all).
I have one relevant work experience I can write about in my personal statement along with my grades & passion for Law that I’ve had for the last 3 years.
I also am planning on asking for a reference from an Ivy League professor who has always highly believed in my academic and professional abilities because I did exceptionally well in their classes for one of my majors.
Do you think I have a shot at Oxford given that I’m already an American undergraduate? On their website it says they have no hard feelings about people applying for 2nd undergrad degrees.
I plan on moving abroad for Europe (especially the UK) as well, so I would much rather go there for my Law studies instead of staying in the U.S. It would just be so much easier for me to transition while still in university, I believe!
I also plan on applying to Uni of Glasgow, Exeter, and Durham!
Thank you very much. I’m only worried my application will not be accepted because I already have a degree. :x
** Sorry for posting in the wrong forum! I don’t know how to use the site yet.
It was very common in the past, for example most Rhodes scholars took a second undergraduate degree (one reason the scholarship is two years, which is the usual length of a second undergraduate degree). It’s less common now because most graduates going to the UK want to do a masters or PhD instead, but still perfectly accepted, although typically it would be in a different subject from your first degree.
A student visa is a realistic plan (assuming you can show you have the funds for the degree). A work visa for a fresh graduate in the UK, isn’t.
If this is the only plan for moving to the UK, I also question the wisdom of doing law there (same reason I question why Europeans would want to study law in the US).
You do not need an undergraduate law degree to practice law in the UK. You go to law school or bar school (those are post grad professional institutions in the UK) for a year if you have a law degree, for two years if you don’t, you just complete a so called law conversion course in the first year. That would be a much better environment and use of your time and funds than spend another three years with 18 to 21 year olds.
It is much more important to find an employer to accept you for the two years of professional training after that (and sponsor you for law school, if you are lucky. Oxford students will have those lined up by their second year, when they apply for internships and seal the deal after if they have done well). You should get on that one ASAP - if you can’t find an employer interested in your specific background for your training period, you can’t qualify as a lawyer in the first place.
Oxford university and Oxford Brookes university (the Former polytechnic, sort of like a CSU to Oxford university’s Cal) run a law school together, where the conversion classes are held mostly by Oxford professors. Look into it.
Many people have been surprised to learn they can not freely work in another country, nor will they be sponsored for a work visa. With all the uncertainty around Brexit I would not expect a work visa for an American to occur, certainly not for a lawyer.
And you won’t be able to find an employer to enable you to qualify without the right to work in the UK.
Also note that Europe doesn’t have the same legal system as the UK so qualifying in the UK wouldn’t be particularly useful for working in other parts of Europe, even ignoring the current Brexit debate.
Unless you have a coherent reason for why you want to do a UK law degree (as opposed to a US degree) then Oxford are not likely to look favorably on your application.
Adding another dose of realism to all of this: It’s very common for U.S. law graduates to work in Europe (and elsewhere abroad) for international law firms. I have no idea how the immigration/work permit issues are handled, but they get handled. I know U.S. law graduates in my generation and my kids’ generation who have spent long periods of their careers in London, Paris, Den Haag, and Frankfurt (and also Tokyo).
I’m not saying it’s easy to do that. The people I am referring to went to top law schools and did very well. (Not necessarily crazy well, but top-half-of-the-class well.) They got hired by famous firms that are quite selective in whom they hired, and they spent at least 2-3 years working in the U.S. establishing their reputation for intelligence and hard work before they got an opportunity to go abroad. And in order to make it work, they either had to be single or they had to work out a bunch of family issues. But without doing any actual research I am reasonably sure more Americans get to work as lawyers in Europe by starting at U.S. law schools than by going to European law schools.
^^what @JHS said. This is how most US lawyers end up working in the UK OR the EU.
^^ also what @Tigerle said. The Oxford law undergrad degree is particularly academic - you should look at what is covered at different universities (available in detail on their websites). The system for becoming a solicitor (it’s different than for becoming a barrister) in the UK is:
Path 1: take undergraduate law, do a 1 year Legal Practice Course (LPC), and do a 2 year traineeship at a a law firm
Path 2: do any undergraduate degree, do a 1 year Graduate Diploma in Law (GDL), commonly referred to as a ‘law conversion course’, then do the 1 year LPC, followed by a 2 year traineeship.
Path 3: 6 year apprenticeship straight after HS
As @Tigerle noted, most students (law or other subjects) nail down their traineeship during the summer after 2nd year, when they do an internship. When they finish undergrad they get a small stipend (which is an advance on their salary) to cover their GDL (if needed) and LPC years, then start to work full time in their traineeships. You might want to consider a graduate entry LLB, which is essentially an expanded GDL over 2 years- but the program would make you eligible for a summer internship which could then turn into a training contract (for the 2 year apprenticeship)*.
I will say that all of these are high risk strategies: as an American you are more work for them to take on- so you have to be extra dazzling. You could go do any of these things, and not get a training contract. One of the reasons for the changes to the system coming in 2021 is that training contracts are so hard to get- for locals, nevermind international students.