Oy, my head hurts from all the thinking..any suggestions?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Hi! I have got the same dilemma as nearly everybody else right now, but I’m trying to look at all the options I have- what to do for next year? My parents want me to go to UC davis, which I really don’t mind… I am just not excited about it. I just want to go somewhere I am really excited about attending- and Davis just isn’t that. People keep telling me (my friends, teachers) that I really belong somewhere unique- not Davis. I plan on majoring in something like English, International Relations…PoliSci, and maybe History, or a minor in Japanese (!) or Russian. </p>

<p>I’ve narrowed down my choices to:</p>

<p>Hampshire College (10k/year scholarship)- 30K/year
UC Davis- 23ishK/year
St. Johns College in Annapolis,MD- 42(AHH!)K/year</p>

<p>I am also waiting for my waitlist schools (Chicago, Reed, Smith) and for my Oberlin decision (they said they would tell me sometime this week when I called… I guess there was some problem with my app) Those 4 are my top choices (I dont have one, i loveee them all) but I probably won’t get financial aid.</p>

<p>But my dilemma really is just that my parents have made it clear that they cannot afford 42K/year- so they are willing to let me attend St. Johns, but I either have to get some more financial aid or transfer to a UC after 2 years. </p>

<p>Now, that seemed like a great idea to me, because, while i am not stupid, i am really not very good at…school. I’m in love with schools liek Reed and Chicago for their ‘life of the mind’ philosophy because it embodies me so well. I just like learning for the learning and want to be at a school where people feel the same way about knowledge and don’t see undergrad years as just a step to grad school</p>

<p>Also, I really am big on this undergrad experience thing- I really, really want to explore around during my undergrad years, live outside of California and return to Cal for grad school, because I really love California. I’m afriad i wont get the chance to live somewhere else if i dont go for undergrad.Yet, i probably cannot attend those, even if i do get off of the waitlist…</p>

<p>Here are my options:</p>

<li>UC Davis </li>
<li>St. John’s college and transfer to eitehr Davis or Cal Berkeley. </li>
<li>Hampshire College</li>
<li>Do a yearlong CityYear community service type…which i am actually quite interested in.</li>
</ol>

<p>and then there is a whole new shady area if I get off the waitlists, or into Oberlin (which has been one of my top top top choices)</p>

<p>So, I guess, I’ve got a few questions</p>

<li>Do people usually get more financial aid/scholarships once they are enrolled in the school?</li>
<li>What are some opinions on UC Davis? I know they offer SO many oppurtunities for studying abroad/etc…and they’ve got a cool honors program</li>
<li>Any opinions on transferring? Any advice about that? St. John’s would sort of be ‘my people’ so I wont be transferring out because I dont like it…but then again, it is 42K/year, and they do not offer many oppurtunities…it’s a pretty standard read/discuss. Is it worth it?</li>
<li>Anyone know a lot about Hampshire? I am slightly apprehensive about having my parents spend 10K more per year for a school I have been getting a lot of mixed reviews about.</li>
</ol>

<p>I’m sorry this is so long =( but your help woudl be really appreciated. Right now, i’m leaning toward Davis, but St. John’s is still lurking at the back of my mind…as is Hampshire. I might visit hampshire because they pay for half of my travelling fees anyway. From a parents POV, which offers the best value for your money? Where would you rather send your kid (i realize i am not your kid … i dont think my parents use CC, anyway… but I just want some opinions)</p>

<p>Thank you VERRYYY much =)</p>

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<p>wow that was SO long..sorry!</p>

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<p>I would go to Davis. I would find out about the Washington DC program. I would also study abroad. Most people I know really like Davis. I hope you like to ride a bike because Davis is a great biking town.</p>

<p>The Mondavi Center is great and the school just built a fantastic rec center. The Arboretum is a nice place to relax.</p>

<p>You will get a very good education too.</p>

<p>Have fun.</p>

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<p>"Also, I really am big on this undergrad experience thing- I really, really want to explore around during my undergrad years,"</p>

<p>You know, Hampshire is nothing if not exploratory. You get to design your course of study, your "major", and you get to pick and choose among offerings at the 5 colleges (I've heard that 70% of courses Hampshire students take, they take at the other 4 colleges in the Consortium. It is nothing if not freedom, and exploration. No, it's not as well-integrated an education as Smith. Nor as bookish as Chicago or Reed (there's some, but relatively not a lot of community service at either.). But you'll meet great people, and take charge of your own education. (My wife - Mini XX - went there - and dropped out, not because she didn't like it, but wanted even bigger worlds to explore, outside of school.</p>

<p>Hampshire really is what you make it - in the extreme.</p>

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<p>I'm jsut afraid that Hampshire students don't take the college seriously- I've heard that a lot of people dont take advantage of the oppurtunities and just slack off..dont do the work all semester and turn it all in the last day ..</p>

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<p>Yup. Probably true. It's more like life - there are slackers, laggards, poets, do-gooders, busybodies, studious, creative, and geniuses - and they let you find out which one you are.</p>

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<p>wondrist,</p>

<p>I think either Hampshire or St Johns gives you more of what you say you are looking for, off the top of my head. I am not that familiar with Davis or the Honors Program. If that puts you with brainy students in small classes, it could be good too.</p>

<p>Most intellectual = St Johns
Most alternative/exploratory = Hampshire
Best Deal= Davis</p>

<p>BTW I visited Hampshire with my D and got the same impression-- that the freedom of Hampshire coupled with the 'alternative' kids can mean derailment, not finishing class, not graduating in 4 years, etc. As a contrast, Brown has a very free environment but much more type A kids who tend to keep themselves moving forward.</p>

<p>OTOH, If you are one of the serious students there, your profs will love you and as Mini pointed out you will have 5 colleges to explore... if H was a bad fit you could always transfer.</p>

<p>If Smith is a high choice for you, you should push re the waitlist, say you'll go if admitted, etc. Smith has good F Aid. Smith wants kids who want to be there. You will get intellectualism at Smith.</p>

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<p>Of your current choice I would choose Hampshire. It has a lot to offer as Mini described and hopefully you could stay the full 4 years. Don't count on your aid going up.</p>

<p>I think you're right to get out of CA and explore. Hampshire and the consortium will bring you together with kids from all over the country and world. You should be excited about your college adventure if at all possible!</p>

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<p>I did post on this a few months ago, maybe on the St. John's board? I LOVED St. John's, and only transferred out after two years because I realized that I wanted to spend 100% of my time studying philosophy. I cannot imagine a better first two years of college for someone with your stated intellectual interests/leanings. It can be a viable strategy, I am living proof of that - with each year that passes, I am more and more grateful that I began my college career at St. John's. (Listening to a few of the questions that S was asked in the Emory Scholars interviews, I was thinking that some professors also should have spent a few years there to learn how to pose a good question). </p>

<p>You have to ask yourself "would it bother me to pull up stakes and make a whole new set of friends somewhere else?" For some people, that would cause hesitation. For me, since I had spent my life as an Air Force brat (7 schools in multiple locations in 12 years growing up) it was not a negative factor. Please feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss this possible strategy further.</p>

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<p>ah yulsie, you are the person who gave me that idea. now i'm stuck on it =P</p>

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<p>I change my mind every 3 minutes. hampshire was out, and now its back in. my parents are a bit worried about hampshire though-they dont want to pour money into a school that would not give me a good chance at getting into grad school. fair enough- i'm not very concerned about prestige, and neither are my parents, tehy just want sufficient bang for their buck =P so..any way i could check that out? Thank you all for your replies, btw =)</p>

<p>SBMOM: the davis honors program's acceptance is based on essays not grades =) that should give you a bit of an idea of what its like- its seminar style discussion about contemporary topics. plus, i hate the davis dorms- they're claustrophobic and, as a dancer, i need space to practice, so another honors plus is that they have better dorms =P it might be superficial, but i'm so picky about where i live. Also, i am most definitely pushing the smith waitlist. </p>

<p>yulsie: i dont know if it would bother me, see. I personally don't think so, currently but i probably will change. and i love philosophy too =) i might study it. btw, i pmed you..though i might as well have just posted it in here. </p>

<p>thank you all again =) this is helpful, muchisimo.</p>

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<p>Others will disagree, but I would not be comfortable paying for a college as unstructured as Hampshire. I view it, and several other similar schools, as failed experiments of the 1970s. I'm sure it's great for some kids, but you can go live somewhere and not have to take classes for a lot less than $10k a year. Heck, you could do that at Davis if you wanted to, and I'm sure some kids do.</p>

<p>It is accredited. However, it has essentially no money with only a $29 million endowment. I would worry that it's even financially viable with an endowment that small. They rely almost exclusively on tuition and less than $1 million a year in contributions for operations. They have to borrow for renovations and maintanence on the campus.</p>

<p>The six year graduation rate is horrible for an expensive private school (only 60%).</p>

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<p>Also, I really am big on this undergrad experience thing- I really, really want to explore around during my undergrad years, live outside of California and return to Cal for grad school, because I really love California</p>

<ol>
<li>Do a yearlong CityYear community service type..which i am actually quite interested in<<</li>
</ol>

<p>I'm going to be the hard nosed contrarian here - you come across like a very confused young person - "not into the school thing" but wants to go to schools where you really will get out of the experience what you put into to it. My daughter looked into St. John's and Chicago - those are the "school thing" in spades, the real deal - just because you sit around in a smal discussion group reading philosophy in the original Greek, doesn't mean the students haven't worked hours outside of that tutorial preparing, aahhh, learning Greek!
And the typical undergraduate experience is not the seling point of any of these!</p>

<p>If you were my child, after I tore my hair out, I would suggest (insist, I think, unless much of your post is off the cuff and not well thought out :)). that you look at UCDavis's policies on deferral/ re-admission. Then I would send you to the gap year, the City year after accepting admission and deferring either at Hampshire, or if possible Davis.</p>

<p>My concern is this - you don't really seem to know what you want, except to get away from home for a time, and that's OK, as long as you are up front about it. I see schools like St. Johns' and Hampshire as either utter wastes of time and money, or the finest experience a person could have - it depends on what the individual brings to the table, and puts into the experience. I just don't get from your post that you have articulated what you expect to get from Hampshire or St. Johns' other than you feel you are "different" and other people have told you that you "belong somewhere different". I think you need to be out on your own, maybe see what it is like to have little opportunity or to have all the deck stacked against you as well as trying to cover expenses on a fixed salary, grow up a little. You may then be ready to design a wonderful program of study at Hampshire, or expand intellectually at St. Johns' or that you want to work in public policy law, and need to save as much money as possible for grad school and go back to UCD.</p>

<p>Go for the gap year!</p>

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<p>Davis is a fine school, but only costs $15-16k for a state resident. </p>

<p>Going to St. John's first and then transferring to Davis makes no sense. If you wish to transfer to Berkeley, best bet is a great community college honors program that has a high placement rate to Telegraph Ave bcos transferring among UC's is difficult.</p>

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<p>You know - looking at ID's post, it reminds me that you might have left the best option of all on the table, though it probably isn't possible now. UMass-Amherst. Party school, zoo, etc., etc. It also provides access to all those classes at Amherst, Smith, Mt. Holyoke, and Hampshire. If you are motivated, it can really work. (I have to report, though, that few do it - likely 'cause they can't get past the party school part.) A real bargain for in-state tuition; no idea for out-of-state.</p>

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<p>I wanted to point out something very important. Because the curriculum at St. John's and Hampshire are both so very unique, it can be difficult - sometimes impossible - to transfer credits to a more traditional school like UC Davis. Yulsie seems to have done OK with tranferring from St. John's but I have heard of kids who have not been able to transfer all credits from there and especially from Hampshire. The UC's can be particularly tough on this. You may end up having to do 3 or 4 years at another school in order to meet their grad requirements, which, of course, will not save you money in the long run.</p>

<p>Just as important, It is also VERY difficult to transfer into the UC system from an out of state private school in general as they give first preference to community college transfers. I have known several kids who went to out of state private schools, decided they wanted to be back in California, and found they were not able to get into the UC system as a transfer. So, please go into this knowing that you may have to transfer to a cal state or another private school if you can not afford to continue at Hampshire or St. Johns.</p>

<p>This doesn't mean you shouldn't consider the two years at St. John's or Hampshire but PLEASE keep in mind that your chances of then being able to transfer to a more traditional school and graduate in two more years may not be good. And, your chances of getting back into the UC system may be slim.
Therefore, if you're going to go to one of these excellent but unique schools with the idea of transferring, I would make sure up front that the types of schools you are hoping to tranfer to will accept the full number of credits. A few phone calls to UC admissions using the St. Johns or Hampshire curriculum guide may answer this question for you.</p>

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<p>wondrlst: You want to get out of California, go somewhere exciting, new, etc., but your parents aren't sympathetic enough about the concept to pay whatever it takes to do that.</p>

<p>My view: You have to earn that opportunity. Could be by having done well enough so far to qualify for scholarships that bring down the cost of out-of-state education, could be qualifying for financial aid that you agree to pay for, could be some other way. But you need to earn it, some way.</p>

<p>I won't comment on the out-of-state schools as I know nothing about them. However, Carolyn is, as usual, right on target. Do not, repeat, DO NOT count on being able to transfer into any UC. The UCs right now are under fire for claiming to be unable to accept all the promised in-state community college student transfers. They are required to give these priority. As a student in a small private out-of-state school, you will be WAY DOWN the list, if not off it completely.</p>

<p>Graduate school - if you want to attend it, them you have to earn good grades wherever you are.</p>

<p>UC Davis is a very good school overall, one of the top three UCs, and has an IR program that is highly rated; poly sci likewise. The overall cost should be a bit less than the $ 23,000 you mention - more like about $ 19,000 or so (but like all schools, it will go up). You might think about going there for two years, getting good grades, then transferring out rather than in.</p>

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<p>while I might disagree with davis being in the top 3</p>

<p>I would still suggest that you go there</p>

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<p>My daughter's friend graduated from Hampshire College with $17,000 in debt. She now has a job, but at first had no idea what she wanted to do and was terrified. She said that if she could have done it over again, she would have gone to a state university. She did NOT like Hampshire College, even though she is a free-spirited and artsy type.</p>

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<p>I agree with Carolyn and DadofSam. Do not count on being able to transfer to a UC.</p>