Parent Concern Over School's Support of Extracurricular Project

Parents Forum
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<p>Cheers, I requested a new title and am glad it was changed. </p>

<p>Thanks all for your interest and support over what truly is just not the biggest deal but another "roadblock" that my D has come across in her schooling at our MS/HS and originally I just needed to vent it but did not mean it to be a huge deal. It has what appears to be a positive ending, I hope. I hope there is support once it gets going and not outward resentments or things of that sort by these faculty members. She works with them a great deal so wants it to feel comfortable all the way around.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone. I felt I owed you what happened after all I shared and all your wonderful feedback.</p>

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<p>Susan,
I'm so glad it seems to have all been worked out. Kudos to your daughter for not letting them get to her, and I'm sure she'll make BOTH shows successes!</p>

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<p>Susan, glad it worked out, and congratulations to your younger daughter.</p>

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<p>Susan, glad to read this wonderful news. Two shows? Amazing!</p>

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<p>Soozie:</p>

<p>So glad that things seem to have been resolved. It's amazing to me that the teacher who was concerned that the kids were not enthusiastic enough about "her" show would believe that if their own show were cancelled, the kids would be more enthusiastic about hers. I'm hoping she came to realize that the reverse was going to be true and that it produced a more conciliatory tone. I hope, too, that she is learning the importance of letting the kids have a sense of ownership of the show they are in.</p>

<p>And now, your D has two shows instead of one! Whew! Good job.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your replies. </p>

<p>Marite, it is a delicate thing talking to a teacher as a parent. I did point out that the reason the kids may have been more focused in the student run production was because it was a different type of endeavor, one they felt ownership of, so their enthusiasm or focus might naturally differ. I did not want to delve too much into this but as an educator and teacher trainer myself, I would want her to examine just why those kids were psyched about THAT project and not as much with select choir? The answer is not to do away with the project that they got engaged in but to think of how she might make some changes to her project/activities/groups that might also engage the kids so they are equally as enthusiastic. For instance, select choir does not differ much year to year. My D says that she and the other kids are not excited about the music they sing. The kids normally do love the musical and eventually did have fun with Wizard of Oz but it is fair to examine what made them less enthusiastic and I do think there were problems with the show selection and the size and age of the cast and the lack of challenge in that production, having done Sondheim the year before, as an example. Some very talented senior girls were shut out of a significant role in that show yet they did SO much in the musical cabaret show so Wizard was a let down for those girls. Basically what she was observing was that the kids were really into their student run show for whatever reason and she saw a different "attitude" when those same kids were in chorus, select choir, and the school musical. </p>

<p>When the teacher said that she would stop by the student run musical rehearsals and see the kids so focused and then when she held select choir following that rehearsal on Thursdays, they were not nearly as focused, my D tried to tell her that actually the kids in her show weren't as focused as she is assuming because the same 18 year old boys (though quite talented) that were not focused in the teacher's activity really were difficult for her to manage in terms of focus too. In fact, my D pointed out to her that she had a new found respect for what it is like for this teacher dealing with kids who are not focused. I added that my D often did remark to me her respect for this teacher who had trouble at times with those kids in her "practices" as she saw how difficult it is to manage such a group. Those kids have since graduated. </p>

<p>You made an excellent point that by discouraging the student run endeavor was not going to make the kids more focused or enthusiastic about her activities. I just see it as some resentments/jealousy/threatening and that is too bad because I think as an educator myself, that I would be thrilled to see my students take on this type of challenge in the interest area that I also tried to infuse a passion for. </p>

<p>This person is certainly a good teacher and the department is well regarded and acclaimed though I think a lot of that is due to the instrumental program. I do think after 30 years, that when someone does things the same each year, it can get a bit stale. Here the kids did something so competely different than anything our school has done before (not just because it was student run but the nature of the show was not like any done there before), and they really loved it. In my view, she could take select choir (the same basic kids with a few differences), and do some songs that are not classical or do some movement like a capella groups do in college or like schools in the midwest do that have something called "show choir" which we don't have here in VT. I recall back in 8th grade, in Chorus, in the spring concert, that she had them do Aretha Franklin's Respect...basically she had my D sing the song solo and the chorus was back up and they really did love that. Last year the regular chorus did do a medley from Les Mis and I could tell they loved that too. In fact, at the last minute she did not have a pianist for the concert and my D who is an accomplished pianist who can sight read music readily, stepped up the night before the concert and played the entire long medley on piano and she had to sing her solo (I Dreamed a Dream) while playing piano in fact. My D has helped this teacher out a lot. The year before, when it was time for auditions for the school musical, Into the Woods, again a mistake was made and no pianist was there that day and my D offered to play and sight read every kid's audition song and did so. She has won state awards giving our school recognition vocally. Originally when this came up last week, I could not see why they would want to disenfranchise a kid who they kinda "need" in their program. She tends to play the lead each year in the musicals since she was in middle school. She is a leader and the kid with the most theater experience and training and so I hate to see them squelch the efforts of those that help bring the program to a high level as well as kids who are not doing this as a hobby but plan to go to college and major in this field so need opportunities in high school within it. There is one other girl in this show also pursuing a BFA in musical theater so they really want and need experiences at school to delve into their intended major and interest area (though both that girl and my D pursue it out of necessity outside of school as well). My D would LIKE to also have some opportunities AT school to do theater and wants to give back to her local school/community in that way. As well, she knows that most of these kids do not do anything in theater outside of school and this is all they have as far as opportunities to engage in their big interest area, whereas she does not rely on school totally to fuel her passion or to give her theatrical experience. </p>

<p>My D has been in a select musical cabaret troupe for 7 summers at her summer intensive program out of state (actually 15 casts of that cabaret) and having done that and LOVED it to the max, she wanted to give the local kids a sense of that great experience and create her own show of that nature for them to do here. Having done such a kind of adult run show in the summers, she had an idea of what that sort of show could be like. The kids here loved it. I am glad they will get to do it again (though she wrote an entirely new show) and for some, this will be the very first time.</p>

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<p>Soozie, I wonder, whether a general meeting of the kids involved in the student- run show would be helpful. It could be used to reassure the teacher that they will not allow their involvement in the student-run show reduce their own level of participation in the teacher's show. It might also provide an occasion for sharing tips and gently urging the teacher to let students be more involved in decisions rather than just perform parts chosen for them by the teacher. Your D's comments about her respect for the teacher's ability to manage the cast are an excellent opening for such an exchange.</p>

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<p>Marite, I very much agree with you. As I mentioned previously, my D REALLY wanted the meeting that we just had to have been between the two music teachers and the students in the cast, not with just her and particularly not with her parents. They told her they had no interest in meeting with the students which I do find troublesome in itself. These kids will have to go forth in college and responsibly negotiate with their teachers and such in these situations. Anyway, I also reiterated to them that I wish they could talk to all the students as it involves much more than my own child even if she is the initiator and leader of this endeavor. </p>

<p>When they went over their "issues" with the student run production, I suggested and urged them to sit down with the ENTIRE cast at the start of the rehearsal period (in two weeks) and discuss their expectations and what not with them all as I don't think a child can really push those points of theirs to her peers and that it is important that their messages be shared directly with the students. I think at that time, I would hope the kids could possibly bring up their own thoughts like you suggest, but I wonder how that would go over. Afterall, after the teacher expressed her feelings about the project and how it affected her, the next thing the other teacher said was "we don't want a rebuttal." As an adult, I was able to respond, politely I might add, that we did have some thoughts about what we had heard that we wanted to share as well. Not sure how all that will go with the students. I already feel a bit shocked that I had to be the one to suggest that they hold a meeting with the cast when this project gets under way and that they would not have done that otherwise and only talked to my D and myself. And if they do hold that meeting to TELL the kids their expectations, I would like to think the kids could also express their thoughts. Given that they have aleady expresssed last week "no interest in meeting with the kids", I have to scratch my head. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Marite, just to clarify that although the music dept. puts on the spring musical and although these two teachers are involved...one directs the orchestra and one works on the songs, that show is actually DIRECTED by someone from outside the school whom they bring in to direct the show...a person in our community who has been on Broadway and on TV. Just wanted to say that this teacher does not truly run the musical per se though is involved in it. Also they never consult the kids as to the show selection. Last year when my D suggested that they might consider The Wiz as it was more challenging musically and had more female parts than The Wizard of Oz, it never happened. She has heard about what they are considering for this year but has not given any opinions. The choices this year are better at least than Wizard. </p>

<p>As far as select choir, yes, wouldn't it be great to use some student input? This semester my D took a leave from select choir due to schedule conflicts with a dance class she takes out of town but was to return to it next semester as she can't take that dance class when the school musical commences either. She has told me that the kids in it have been telling her it is not that fun and discouraging her from returning but she does select choir and chorus as well because those are the offerings in her school when it comes to singing and being that she is going into this field, naturally should participate in the offerings at her own school (though takes voice privately outside of school). Chorus is a class during school, but select choir meets at 5 PM. She definitely WILL be doing her school musical and does every year and enjoys it. She is not that into classical songs which is what the select choir does, even though she won the state scholarship for voice which required her to sing classical, which is not her forte but she does do things like regionals and All State Festivals because she is involved in our school music program and should particpate. It is just not her favorite thing. I must say, having just watched numerous a capella groups at Brown a week ago which she LOVED, she wondered just why our select choir, which IS an a capella group, can't do things remotely like that. As well, we know kids in other regions that have "show choir" which looks way more fun to us but what can you do....you have people who have done the same thing year to year and are not the type to create new things. As a teacher myself, I loved creating new activities year to year and not repeating everything I had done in the past. But this took a ton of work and planning and not every teacher is going to do that. </p>

<p>It is not like these folks are not good teachers and they do do a good job but they do not "excite" the kids or do not necessarily represent the "best" of what it means to be a teacher in terms of new ideas and new energy, even if the status quo is decent enough. It is the difference between a "good" teacher and a "great" teacher in my opinion.</p>

<p>This teachedr wrote a supplementary rec that was a FORMULATIC letter she had written on every kid about Chorus and plugged in a couple facts off the kid's resume (regurgitating info) and never once mentioned the kid's work in theater (having been their leads since middle school which is very rare there) one bit as her form letter normally deals with chorus. This is odd given that she knows the child is applying to professional degree programs FOR theater and never mentions her theater work there. In fact, she mistakenly left in the name of Jessica in the letter from following her form letter for another kid and my kid's name is NOT Jessica! The lack of effort put into writing a rec (and I don't think this had to do with my child or what she thinks of her and would have been done for all her students) is obvious and needless to say, my child is not using the rec. It pales in comparison to the recs she has where the person wrote from scratch about my child. My child put more time into a detailed cover letter for this teacher than the teacher put into the rec (which she also did not get back on time as she forgot). That might give you some idea, though I must say I like this person and have NO ill feelings, just am remarking on these kinds of issues. She has had a tough couple of years personally and I truly feel sorry for her about those issues.</p>

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<p>Hi Susan,</p>

<p>I am glad to know that everything has worked out for your daughter. The one thing that boggles my mind is that if the Select choir teacher feels that they don't have the same level of enthusiam for her production as they do for the student run production has she ever asked her self WHY or what can be done differently? I just think that it is just horrible that she try to take out her own issues out on a student. I am glad that your duaghter has shown them all that she is the better person and has definitely given them lessons in grace and mautrity.</p>

<p>P.S. i too like the new title change</p>

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<p>It never ceases to amaze me how some "adults" cannot seem to separate their own needs from those of their "children" whether it be a teacher-student relationship or a parent-child relationship. I believe that the chorus teacher was so threatened by your daughter's ability to rally the student body that she failed to see her role in the undertaking. What a shame! Anyone, good luck to your D and her new endeavors!</p>

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<p>Sybbit and Sgiovinc...thanks for your thoughts. Sybbie, I wrote the new title and got permission to change it. This is more about support or lack thereof of a student EC endeavor but not that the school cancelled anything (though that was the initial impression but never a fact) and it is not really about musical theater. I am glad I got to change the title as I had not been the one to pick the subject heading that it was changed to midstream the last time.
Susan</p>

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<p>In fact, my D pointed out to her that she had a new found respect for what it is like for this teacher dealing with kids who are not focused. I added that my D often did remark to me her respect for this teacher who had trouble at times with those kids in her "practices" as she saw how difficult it is to manage such a group.</p>

<p>It is great when students take the challenge directing a production, because they really do acquire a much better understanding and empathy for the challenges that teachers face in directing student productions.</p>

<p>And it's really great that your daughter has explicitly expressed her deeper appreciation of the challenges the teacher faces to the teacher!</p>

<p>(I've had the exact same experience, as several students I had prevously directed grew up and took on directing responsibilities themselves, they spontaneously came to me and said, "You know, I finally understand how hard it is to manage all this energy and keep everyone focused. I now really appreciate all your work over the past years." They also asked for my advice in managing certain difficult situations. I don't know if they actually followed my advice, but I appreciated being asked. It was enormously rewarding for me to feel appreciated and consulted, even though I was very happy to have "grown out of the job" and been replaced by the student directors. It should also be noted that those were not conversations that those young directors would have been comfortable having with me IF they had been surrounded by their youthful casts. They were conversation that they had separately with me.)</p>

<p>Soozie: Originally when this came up last week, I could not see why they would want to disenfranchise a kid who they kinda "need" in their program. She tends to play the lead each year in the musicals since she was in middle school.</p>

<p>It's clear from your descriptions that your daughter has enormous talents and has greatly contributed to the quality of the school's shows. It's also clear that your daughter's teachers recognize her gifts, since they have consistently chosen her for leading roles.</p>

<p>However, I can imagine that teachers would not be happy about having to work with a child or parents who might give off the even the very slightest whiff of an attitude like: You "need" me.</p>

<p>That may very well be why they requested the meeting with you and your daughter.</p>

<p>You could very well be right that there is some resentment on the part of the teachers. </p>

<p>I'm guessing there are some very mixed feelngs and ambivalence involved. </p>

<p>Rightly or wrongly, the teachers may well have been feeling that her attitude was that "Of course, the teachers and school administration will support my enterprise because I've done so many wonderful things for the school in the past."</p>

<p>If I were one of the teachers and I learned that your daughter had "signed contracts" with the students many weeks ago, that she had laid out money for music, etc., but that she had not actually formally requested permission to use the school's facilities for the particular weeks she would need until much later, I would be feeling a bit like: "Hey, this is someone who is just assuming we'll give her the use of the facilities whenever she feels like gettng around to telling us exactly when she wants them."</p>

<p>In retrospect, it seems to me that it might have been more "politic" to deferentially consult the teachers about facility availability on the tentative dates that seemed good to her, many weeks ago, around the same time she was "contracting" with students to perform. </p>

<p>She might have even followed up that deferential consultation with a deferential and appreciative memo recapping their conversation about dates. </p>

<p>Even if she was unsure about exact dates earlier, she might at least have gotten an "agreement in principle" to some tentatively appropriate dates, with the understanding that she would firm up the timetable by some specified date.</p>

<p>For me, the key to heading off this kind of thing is: deference, deference, deference--don't let anyone think you are taking their cooperation and support for granted, ask for it deferentially in a way that does <em>NOT</em> suggest you are <em>ASSUMING</em> you'll get it.</p>

<p>If you wait to ask for facility usage dates until weeks after you've contracted with actors and paid for music, you are putting the teachers in a position where they really feel as though you've taken their support and agreement for granted.</p>

<p>Too late for that now, of course, but live and learn.</p>

<p>At this point, it seems to me that the group might want to draft a contract with the school, a written document spelling out exactly when the group can have the facility for rehearsals and performance, agreeing on a clear set of expectations that the students will take responsibility for leaving the facility the way they found it--cleaning up trash and replacing chairs, explicitly committing to a strike-date/time, agreeing to take responsibility for paying for any damage to equipment, etc.</p>

<p>After drawing it up, perhaps a delegation of students including your daughter could meet with the teachers to work out the exact details of the language so that it's to everyone's satisfaction. Again, the note I would strike is: deference! Say to the teachers, we understand your concerns and we want to make sure we all take responsibility for addressing them. Is there anything else we need to add? It might be helpful to have the GC sit in on that meeting, as he did on Monday's meeting.</p>

<p>Then the contract--maybe better to call it a "memorandum of agreement" than a contract--could be signed by all the students and the teachers and run by the principal for ratification.</p>

<p>And, again, I would suggest great deference in approaching the principal, who is probably feeling a bit insecure in a new job.</p>

<p>My motto is: you are much MORE likely to get cooperation and support for your request to use school facilities if you ask for it very deferentially, as a big favor, as far in advance as possible, expressing your great appreciation for it, and asking if there is anything you can do in return for that cooperation and support.</p>

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<p>A very new slant on a very old problem!</p>

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<p>Homeschoolmom, thanks for your very thoughtful insights. </p>

<p>The point about that the program "needs" my D was nothing remotely discussed or inferred in any of this matter...I am just talking here with other parents as an observation. I feel positive that none of that came across. I mostly mean as well that the dept. might not want to disenfranchise the kids that they depend on who are the core of the program's activities, which is who is involved in this project, not just my own child. It is a thought I have but surely kept entirely to myself. The meeting was extremely cordial and never got into some things I shared of my thoughts here. That is why I "vented" them here and not to the school! ;-)</p>

<p>As far as the "contracts"....these were not signed contracts per se, and I should not have used the word "contract" as it is misleading, I now realize. She did write a letter to each participant to see if they were interested again this year and to new participants and what the project involves in terms of a committment, asking them to get back to her if they wanted to participate and commit to it. The dates of the endeavor are the same as last year which fit between school productions and the only time this can be done at our school. It was important to her before proceeding with way more work and details of writing the show and securing music to see if the interest or commitment was there by her peers who are involved in theater at school. </p>

<p>In retrospect, perhaps she could have had a meeting with the teachers in September too. The facility issue or dates at school are not a big deal in our small school so THAT part was not something that was in doubt. Yes, she did assume they could do the student run production again this year because there was NEVER a word to the contrary or never a negative piece of feedback profered last year from the staff or anyone but they only heard positive things. She had no inkling that it was an issue for them. I wish they had sat down last year and evaluated it and given feedback or concerns and talked about what would have ot happen if they were to do it again. So, she just never imagined this was going to come up. I don't think the fact that she was planning a new cabaret this year was a secret to them. It was only when she went to confirm the date that it came up. Perhaps in retrospect, she should not have assumed that this successful endeavor could continue in a second year. Often if a new EC or club is started, it continues on if the interest is still there, I presume and does not begin anew. </p>

<p>She only wrote the show in late August when she had the time and inclination. She went in now to get the logistics arranged with the staff. I think her ideas would have flowed no matter when they had met because she just creates like this. Yes, she did try to ascertain other kids' interests but wouldn't you have to do that before presenting this proposal to the staff, because if you had no show or no kids interested it would be a moot point. I do see your order of the process as another great suggestion now in retrospect but this was just not anything she remotely expected to occur and frankly everyone is a bit taken back by the reaction, not just my own kid. </p>

<p>This is not really about facility usage as much as about their feelings about the project. There is no issue with them over dates but more about how they felt about this kind of production. It is not like someone else is going to use the space if they don't. It is more about their take on the project itself which apparently was not a happy one but we truly had no inkling of that. I wish they had spoken up about that last year but that is the way that goes. The GC thinks they should have spoken up last year and not waited until the kids were ready to start on it again (not a secret undertaking).</p>

<p>As far as the principal, we have not chosen to speak to him and I have no clue if he even knows about this stuff. I agree that a written understanding would be helpful because it is the teachers' rights to have expectations and I truthfully do not mind ONE bit that they have some things they would like to see. I don't know why I had to be the one to suggest that they meet with the cast and spell these out. I think it would be more effective if they tell all the kids and not just my D who has limited authority over her peers and it would be better for them all to take responsibility and hear it directly from the teachers in that department. They said they would do that. </p>

<p>Everything is a learning process and I think your suggestions are good ones to think about. It was just an unexpected thing as the opposite message was the one that all involved had gotten. </p>

<p>Believe me, we were and continue to be extemely supportive and praised their work in our meeting and also appreciated everything. It was a positive meeting. The GC thought it went very well in fact. </p>

<p>I think the kids want to be responsible here and I know they wanted to handle it in a mature way as best they could. I would say that my D was very deferential to them in the meeting and agreeing to anything they said, as she should. She had been unaware of their discontent until last week. I think she has handled it pretty well. There was NEVER contentiousness in any of the discussions. </p>

<p>I think you have some wonderful insights, Homeschoolmom. I thank you very much for sharing them as well.</p>

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<p>Ps, I like your comment, Homeschoolmom, about "live and learn" as yes, she made an assumption though I can see how she would have but each experience in life is one you learn from and I see all of this as a huge learning process and she is just 16 so these are good experiences to deal with. She has had to in the past and will have to in college. Your ideas of how she may have approached the process differently this fall are good suggestions that sound like if she had done that, she would have learned of their hesitancy earlier on. Still the project is not yet underway and so it is still in advance. She wrote these show ideas down on the beach and on car rides in late August because she loves thinking up ideas and does that for fun. Since then she has tried to deal with the logistics and went in to talk to staff in that department as she was at that juncture now. She is so heavily involved in a major show out of town where she is home at 11 most nights and away on weekends that she has had little time to devote to this project yet. That is a part of it all as well.</p>

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<p>I have to say that the whole comment about "Wizard of Oz" being not up to the level of high school students sounds a bit arrogant. Now, I don't want to say that your daughter's situation is fair. It is terrible and outrageous and my mouth was dropping open as I read this story in shock and horror!!!</p>

<p>But, my personal opinion is that I hope we never feel "above" a wonderful show like Wizard of Oz, which tells a wonderful story with beautiful music and endearing characters. Though Sondheim may be more "challenging" I would prefer to see Wizard of Oz over Sweeney Todd ANY day. Ughhh. Awful. The music is, well, some would call it music. And the story is not one I would take my child to see as representative of American culture and musical theatre. The Wizard of Oz represents a girl who goes on a long an arduous adventure and learns something on the way. This is life. Not only this, but she realizes that what she was looking for on her journey was something she had all along. How beautiful is that? Much more beautiful than any demon barber of fleet street, I can tell you that.</p>

<p>So, that's just my vent.</p>

<p>I am SO sorry about your daughter's situation. She sounds like a wonderfully ambitious girl. I know a woman who puts on a similar show at Juilliard. It amazes me that a sixteen year old can tackle the same feat with such maturity, organizational skills, and talent. Comparable to a teacher at Juilliard. Wow! Whatever happens with this, I can tell she is meant for great things. Best of luck, I hope she can find a way to push past these frustrating music teachers and put on her show.</p>

<p>The show must go on:)</p>

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<p>I certainly appreciate your comments. I am not sure you are aware that I brought up this situation 17 months ago! So, um, the show surely did go on...in January of 2005! My daughter is now in college :D and putting on more shows.</p>

<p>To comment about your point to do with the Wizard of Oz...I'd like to clarify...I DEFINITELY agree that the Wizard of Oz is a WONDERFUL musical. Just so you know, as a young child, my D was very very very into the Wizard of Oz and had been in a professional production of it and a community theater production as well. I can't begin to tell you all the Wizard of Oz things she did in her Wizard of Oz phase. We also had a Wizard of Oz birthday party and she was Dorothy for that and Halloween and many other things she did related to this wonderful musical. No argument from me or her about loving the show. And trust me, when my D played Dorothy in the HS production in tenth grade, she truly loved a chance to play that role...a role she feels any young musical theater female should get to play at some point (that and Annie....another role she has played). </p>

<p>That said, while she loves the musical, she and the other students were disappointed to have it selected as the HS musical production. It is not that they do not like the musical. It had some drawbacks, even though it surely is a classic. One is that there are not that many female parts and that year there were several graduating seniors who were worthy of lead roles and not enough female parts for them. In fact, the director cast two Glindas. Also, musically, it is not as challenging of a score as other shows they have done. There are not even hardly any solos for the lead, Dorothy, unlike other leading female roles. Our school had done Cabaret and Into the Woods in the preceding years and this just seemed to be a step in a different direction. In fact, since then, the school went on to do Oklahoma and Guys and Dolls....both classics of course but definitely "safer" ones. My D has gone to a summer theater camp for 8 summers and they put on 36 full scale productions per summer and I have never seen them do Wizard of Oz with teenagers. I realize you don't like Sweeney Todd but they did...they did that show and so many others that were sophisticated musicals....last summer my D was in Jekyll and Hyde....and they've done Nine, Les Mis, Aida, Miss Saigon, Pirates of Penzance, Carrie, Hair, Merrily We Roll Along, Chicago, Cabaret, and scores of other shows. I think the Wizard of Oz is certainly suitable for high schools but is a show that I would think a high school with less experience might put on, not a school that has put on excellent performances of Into the Woods and Cabaret. I'd have chosen it more for a middle school production. </p>

<p>It wasn't so bad that they chose Wizard of Oz but the kids were simply not that excited about it, simply put. When they had just come off of doing the musical revue my daughter had created....which was full of lots of music from contemporary Broadway with more sophisticated themes and challenging songs and choreography, it just felt to them like stepping backward, less challenging. Also, our middle school and high school are interconnected at the same site. The middle school puts on its own musicals and the high school puts on their own as well. However, the high school allows middle schoolers to audition for the high school production. Usually one or two middle schoolers make it into the high school cast. When my D was in seventh grade, she played a principal role in the HS play and a smaller role in the HS musical, the only middle school student in those casts. When she was in 8th, she was the lead in both the HS play and the HS musical. So, I am NOT going to complain about middle school students let into the HS productions or I would be a hypocrite. However, the year they did Wizard of Oz in the HS, they cast a TON of middle school students in the HS show....all the munchkins...lots of them. This affected the high school kids as it kind of brought down the rehearsal time....in terms of focus, following directions, etc. As well, by putting all those MS kids in the HS cast, it really robbed the MS musical of lots of talented kids. So, the Wizard of Oz WAS a WONDERFUL production at our HS but just was not a favorite for these other reasons. My D adored being in the show, don't get me wrong. She loved playing Dorothy and the production was really great. </p>

<p>The issues I brought up last year about the student run musical (cabaret) were way beyond the Wizard of Oz issue which was quite minimal in the scheme of the larger issues that were involved at the time. </p>

<p>My D went on last summer to write another musical revue show and directed kids ages 9-14 in a program she created/directed for a job for herself. It went over well and she earned a lot of money doing it. I am glad she did those shows in HS....despite being discouraged by the school. Now in college, my D has the opportunity to musical direct Into the Woods next fall and another musical in NYC this summer if she would like. Our HS may have wanted to stifle her efforts but I must say the two shows she created and directed there were stepping stones for her to things she is doing now. I'm not only glad she got to do them but the students who participated continually reflect on those student run productions as a highlight of their time in HS. Now my D is not in the HS because she graduated a year early. She had been the first and only student to ever undertake student run productions there. This year, now that she left, other students attempted this....on an ambitious scale....to put on Little Shop of Horrors....unfortunately they did not succeed and had to call it off before it ever was performed. It is a difficult undertaking for students but I would hope adults would encourage able students who can pull it off to do these kinds of initiatives. The two shows my D produced were truly worthwhile experiences for all who were involved. </p>

<p>Anyway....I was surprised to see this thread resurrected. I'll just say that in follow up....my D is still on her yellow brick road pursuing a life in musical theater. She is now studying that in a BFA program at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts (CAP21 program). I think she has moved past playing Dorothy. In a few days, she is trying out for Hair (a far cry from Wizard of Oz, lol). Last summer she played a whore (Lucy) in Jekyll and Hyde. Still, Dorothy remains a favorite, so I agree with all you wrote about this classic story and musical.</p>