Parent needs help because of my Overachieving Son

Parents Forum
21

Lots of good advice. It is really early days now and there is so much else your S may be one interested in. USoCal was a great U for our S and D; it can be very generous with merit aid as well.

Our S has always tested extremely well in all standardized tests, D tests pretty well also. We tried to expose them to a lot of experiences and literature and live theater. We went to many national parks, museums, different cities and parts of the US. We wanted our kids to find their passions and they did.

22

8th grade is not too early to begin college visits.

It may not be too late to move to an under-represented state, as many elite schools value geographic diversity :slight_smile:

23

I don’t know what gifted and talented programs there are in CA, but here on the East Coast there is either the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth or Duke Talent Identification Program. You should ask your school’s guidance counselor what college by you offers this kind of a program. My nephew and daughter both did the Johns Hopkins program, and their offerings were fabulous. I don’t think that will help your S get into any particular college, but there are weekend seminars, summer classes and on-line classes that were all fascinating to the kids and helped them to identify areas that they would be interested in studying. I think that the kids usually join before 8th grade, so you should look into this immediately.

24

@3puppies No joke–moving from Southern Ca to Montana / Wyoming would exponentially increase OP’s son chance at schools like MIT which admit students by demographics. MIT probably admits no more than twenty unhooked Asian boys in S Ca. In OP son’s case, since he wants to have math as his niche, if by eighth grade he has not made to Aime this year he is probably outside of top twenty. If he has never heard of AMC/Aime or tried he is definitely outside of top 2000 in math at his grade. I know this because I am in S Ca and my son is in eighth grade too.
Scoring 95%+ PSAT and over 1550+ SAT as an eighth grader in OP’s demographic is probably not considered “Overachieving” as I know too many of them around here, but in Montana/Wyoming/Dakotas it will be a different story.
But the bottom line is kids at that age need to do things they enjoy no matter their talent. The MIT’s applying sideways lay this out very nicely. http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways

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Awesome advises everyone!! I’m so thankful for the guidance I am getting here… :slight_smile: :wink:

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You have received great advice from everyone here and I agree with it all.

I want to add the importance of utilizing summers to enrich his mind, develop leadership skills and make new friends.

Here is a link to a California high school for gifted students website that has links to multiple summer program options some are free and some are expensive -http://highlygiftedmagnet.org/summer-programs/ but you can search cc forums for summer ideas too-

My son went away to a young scholars program at a university one summer and it was the best thing for him. It was incredibly inspiring for him to be around so many bright kids and it gave him a tiny taste of college life. He still keeps in touch with many of those kids even though they all have gone on to different colleges.

I think its great that you are researching college confidential this early- I was I had found it when my son was early in HS- alas I found it when he was a senior applying to schools. So many great ideas and so much help to put it all in perspective.

Edit to add -here is a list of summer Math programs!http://www.ams.org/programs/students/emp-mathcamps

27

My son is headed to Caltech for his freshman year in 10 days. :(( :slight_smile: So, I’ll try to come up with some useful suggestions, though you’ve gotten a lot already.

These suggestions are more for now or early high school:

– Since his current interest is math, look for a Mathcounts group locally and/or a math circle. http://www.mathcircles.org/ Some of the SoCal Math Circles are pretty pushy in that Asian tiger stereotypey way, but see if he likes it. My son went to ARML competitions with the SoCal group for 3 years and loved the socializing. I’m not a super big fan of Mathcounts, because a lot of it is speed math instead of challenging. There is also the AMC 8, which leads into the AMC 10/12 and AIME.

– Read “How to Be a High School Superstar: A Revolutionary Plan to Get into College by Standing Out (Without Burning Out)” by Cal Newport. It’s an interesting balance to the test-prep market. I had my son read the relevant parts in 9th grade. Along those same lines, also read http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways

– Some book, maybe the Cal Newport one, had a good list of questions about long-term goals. I still have DS’s answers. They aren’t goals like “attend x school” but more things they might like to accomplish during their life.

– I started a shared Google Doc in 9th grade where he kept track of things he’d done and time he’d spent that might be asked for in college applications. It was useful to refer to when he was doing college applications. It also ended up containing brainstorming about summer activities, HS class schedules and lots more.

– Investigate the high school options you have. Ask questions about early access to AP STEM classes, the math sequence, and about whether students take dual-enrollment classes at your local community college (or CSU or UC) and whether those count toward HS GPA. Basically, some schools limit kids and some make more opportunities available.

– When comparing HSs, also ask about clubs he might want to be involved in. Maybe a math club and/or science club that does competitions, a robotics club, a computer science club, etc.

– Are there students “like him” at the HSs you are considering? I don’t think it is useful to attend a low-performing school in order to be able to be the highest ranking kid. Think about their social life for the 4 years of HS.

– Have him think about what courses interest him. Don’t take courses because they will “look good” though of course be aware that colleges are generally looking for 4ish years of most of the core academic subjects.

– Investigate the courses he can take at your local community college. In our town, kids can take CC classes free as soon as the summer after 8th grade. DS ended up with 11 college classes during HS at the community college and our local UC. If the classes are significant and relevant to his interests (and he does well), they help with college applications.

– He may be able to get the SAT Subject Tests out of the way early. My son took Math II and Physics at the end of 9th grade, got 800s, and was happy to be done with that part of testing. (My son doesn’t like test prep, though, and didn’t prep for tests other than to get an idea of the time limit. Maybe your son does enjoy it.) He took those tests early because he did Precalculus and AP Physics B that year. They don’t have AP Physics B any longer; it’s a 2-year sequence now, so harder to be done with early.

– Start saving money for college now if you haven’t already. Paying for college out of current cash flow is tough for anyone.

– I’m seconding the AoPS suggestion. DS took their Precalculus class in 9th to get to a more appropriate level for him in 10th grade. In addition to math classes, they have a programming class. They used to have 3 programming classes, and DS took them all in 7th and 8th grade and then took the AP test in 8th grade. He ended up doing a lot of extracurriculars that involved programming, including competitions and physics research at our local UC.

– He could take the SAT for CTY qualification. My son took a similar test for CTY, but never ended up doing any of the CTY camps. There are some CTY camps in SoCal.

– I’m 3rd-ing or 4th-ing the lots of reading for pleasure and interests suggestion.

– Enjoy your great kid! It goes so fast!

These are for later:

– Look into summer programs that match his interests. There are a lot for math, but for some of them you have to do well in competitions. There are also a number for computer science and physics. My son did a selective astrophysics camp that is one that Caltech’s admissions department notices.

– Don’t have a dream school if you can help it. Apply to reaches, matches, and safeties that he would be willing to attend and you can afford (with merit if available). See where he gets accepted and then decide.

– Caltech requires students to attend for 4 years. A bunch of APs and college classes won’t help students finish early there. (There are placement tests you can take to place out of some classes or challenge prerequisites at Caltech.) The same is mostly true at MIT and Mudd (but without the 4-year requirement perhaps). However, the opposite is the case at UCs–many of my son’s 14 APs and 11 college classes would have counted, and he could have planned on 3 years or plenty of time to double major.

– Geography doesn’t help a bit with Caltech. They take a high percentage of kids from CA. (Yes, it probably helps for MIT and Mudd.)

– Within CA, CalPoly SLO is a less costly but still great option. It can probably be his safety if he gets great scores, a great GPA, and takes some extra classes in academic subjects. USC gives 1/2 tuition at a minimum to National Merit students they admit and a number or scholarships larger than that.

– The UCs include some really great options and are currently about $35K/year. Berkeley is probably tops for math. Don’t overlook the College of Creative Studies program in math at UCSB. http://ccs.math.ucsb.edu/ CCS is an amazing program for someone who wants to do research! UCSB has a small number of $6K/year merit scholarships. Berkeley has some $2K/year scholarships.

Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.

28

When I sign up and post my questions today I did not anticipate all the responses and there being so many passionate and supportive parents and students that is on this site. To you all taking the time out of your busy day to comment and help a overwhelmed parent, a huge THANK YOU!

29

Re: money… if you think you can pay out of pocket $24000 a year…then start putting $2000 a month in a separate bank account and see if you REALLY can do this.

30

I’ll second JHU Center for Talented Youth. Google them. Kids can take all kinds of college level classes online and in summer camps, only limited by their own ability. My 2 kids did CTY. One got to work with the editor of JHU’s Imagine Magazine and published a piece. The experience of working with the editor was better than having a published piece as a middle schooler. They give awards and my student got the highest Math award in our state. It opens all kinds of doors. Worth looking into.

31

To answer a question posted, my son will not qualify for financial aid.

Caltech and Harvey Mudd is just a shot in the dark because both are close by and he wouldn’t have to pay for rent.
Just throwing ideas out there and see what other experienced parents think.
My wife and I can probably afford a Ivy League tuition, but it doesn’t mean we’d want to pay for it. I guess it really comes down to how much he wants to go, IF he gets into one. :slight_smile:

A lot of comments express that it’s too early. I’m one that likes to plan ahead. I feel if I wait till Sophmore, Junior year to start planning I could lost out on something vital which might help my child succeed. It might be too early, but I’m lucky getting all these wonderful advises.

Take care and have a great evening everyone!! :smiley:

32

@JC1228

The cost of tuition alone at Cal Tech is $47,000 for the year.

The full cost of attendance at Cal Poly SLO, an excellent school, is about $30,000 a year…and that includes tuition, fees, room, board, and personal expenses.

You are instate for CA. I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t be looking at your instate options. UCLA and UCB…fabulous first class research universities also…and a fraction of the cost of Caltech and MIT full pay.

33

I am sure it is hard for you to think about your son living away from you when he goes off to college, but many colleges require students to live on campus freshman year. I don’t think you should count on your kid living at home when he is in college, unless he is going to a local community college.

34

Mudd is a residential college…99% live on campus. Caltech has 80%. Both schools require freshman to live on campus.

35

Another reason for a Cal Tech student to live on campus: everyone in their respective dorms has dinner together every evening at the same time each day. It’s like a big family dinner every day together. Classes are purposely NOT scheduled during this time and from what I’ve read, a lot of clubs have their club meetings, intramural sports are scheduled just before dinner. So everybody has like a 2 hour mental break each day at the same time each day.

36

OP- your kid sounds great. Enjoy the process of watching him grow up.

37

Just a comment about terminology: “Overachieving” has generally been used to refer to a performance that is better than expected, based on standardized test scores or apparent ability. I think what you mean to call your son is “high achieving,” in the American parlance. Mostly this will not cause a problem, but if you were to refer to your son as “overachieving” during a conference with his high school teachers or guidance counselor, they might form the wrong impression, which would not be totally easy to dispel.

38

You might look into the Davidson THINK summer program for him. One of my kids did it for two summers and loved it.

39

One reason I’ve heard some neighbors of Californians cite is small classes and LAC environment considering the total undergrad population last I checked is a bit under 1000.

Contrast that with Berkeley and UCLA which each of undergrad student populations in the tens of thousands.

And then add to that how Caltech heavily concentrates the top STEM academic achievers in such a manner that Profs don’t have to slow down as much when they teach to the middle of the class as opposed to even elite schools like Berkeley(due to size and state admission mandates).

The older relative who finished at Caltech after spending a year at a Service Academy recounted that as strong as the academics…especially STEM were at his Service Academy, it paled greatly compared to what he experienced at Caltech. And that’s one of the reasons why he cherished his Caltech experience.

40

Berkeley and other schools do offer various levels of some courses (e.g. honors courses). However, Caltech seems to have only what would be considered honors courses at other schools in some subjects.