Hello everyone. It is a while since I started to lurk on this site, but it is time for questions .
I had my college education in my native country, so my knowledge about American system is limited. My son is in 10th grade of a highly rated STEM suburban school. He loves his school; he is smart and persistent and very passionate in activities he likes to do; he contributes tremendous amount of time toward his hobbies. The latest are Computer Science and research (participation in various science competitions). I have a great respect for what he is doing, but worry that he is missing something important and later will be disappointed. He thinks that all his extra activities will also help him to get into good college.
He is dreaming about one of the top colleges. Every year majority of kids from his school admitted to the top universities . The problem, he does not want to admit, that his grades are not perfect and the time he dedicates to regular subjects is not sufficient to improve his grades. His SAT score without preparation last fall was not that bad, but after reading this site and other sources, I feel that he should spend a lot more time to prepare for SAT next fall and improving his GPA. Otherwise he does not have a chance to fulfill his dream. Every time I bring this subject it is a battle and I’m losing it. What can help to convince him to change priorities steer him to a right direction, how to explain what is more important, maybe some examples…?
I just feel frustrated, that he spends so much time on his extra staff, working late hours, but at the end it will be a great upset.
Thank you.
Perhaps ask the guidance counselor to discuss this with your son. Sometimes it is better coming from a non-parent.
It is true that great activities won’t make up for subpar grades/standardized tests especially at the very top schools – if he continues on this path he would have to target schools which are strong in his area of interest and where he is an academic match.
There are plenty of colleges out there for kiddo. Certainly one of the over 3000 colleges in this country will accept him.
A few things…
- He does not need to go to a top ranked school to be successful.
- If he does choose to apply to those top 20 schools, remember that some of those schools reject 90% of their applicants...and many of those rejections are well qualified students.
- You need to start thinking about characteristics of colleges...and not rankings. What kids of schools might your son like? Small/medium/large? Urban/suburban/rural? Public/private? Religious or not? Big sports or not? What kinds of activities? Etc.
- Cast a wide net. Choose a couple of sure things for admission that you can afford, and that your son would happily attend if accepted. Find those couple of,schools FIRST. Then build your list up. Include a few matches, and a couple of reaches.
- If finances are a consideration, please discuss this with your kiddo BEFORE you actually start the college applications. He needs to know your family budget. For you....every college has a net price calculator which will give you an estimate of your net costs and financial aid. An estimate. But do run those NPCs.
- Don't get caught up in a "dream school" notion. All of the schools in your wide net should be able to provide what your kid needs in college.
- Don't listen to other students, and limit discussions with neighbors about your college search...unless you,really want their advice. Really, some of what you hear about scholarships and such from other students might not be accurate...or reflect the whole story.
- See if your son will take the lead on finding schools. Certainly, you can give him suggestions...but give him some guidance in how to look for schools that might appeal,to,him.
- This site was a godsend with my second child. We actually found the school she attended based on a recommendation from a CC poster. I put forth some questions, and got a ton of excellent responses. Don't be afraid to ask. This is a great resource.
- My kid was not Ivy or the like academically, and we still found a bunch of great schools for the kid to apply to. Great.
Happy1 : Thank you for advising . We did not meet the councilor . He , met with her and she reassured him , that he is on the right track .
Thumper1 , thank you for you very detailed response . I really appreciated . We are not chasing big names , probably I i explained it wrongly . I understand there are many colleges with great programs. Still a big issue to help (convince) DS to prioritize his learning habits. What recourses will help him to understand that GPA is a priority over his other interests?
You say he is dreaming of top colleges? Consider a visit to one of his dream schools. The admissions people can explain in simple terms what the typical student admitted at that school is likely to have and give feedback on his current grades and choices of high school coursework.
@Mom2001 It sounds like your son has some good hobbies (CS and research?). Why would you discourage him from doing that? If he spent his time chasing girls and going to parties, I think that would be a different matter. If he loves programming, I think he has a lot of great future career choices out there for him.
You’re right that without a good GPA and test scores, he will have a difficult time getting into one of the top schools in the country. I’m not sure which ones he is dreaming about, but Cal Tech, MIT, Stanford, etc. reject plenty of valedictorians and national merit finalists. This may just be one of the lessons he will need to learn the hard way.
However, I agree with @thumper1 100%. All is not lost if he gets rejected from Harvard…There are lots of great schools out there for your son that will give him the degree he wants and the opportunity to continue with his love of programming/research. If my son showed a love for something like computer programming (vs. video game playing), I would jump on board and encourage it. Your son’s passion can turn into his life’s work, which seems to me an ideal outcome for almost anyone.
“All is not lost if he gets rejected from Harvard…”
Recently I had dinner with an old friend who is retired but used to be manager who hired software engineers (he was himself also a very good software engineer). Thinking of some posts on CC (but not mentioning it), I asked him “given a choice, would you rather hire a new graduate who just graduated from Harvard, or from U.Mass Amherst”. He replied fairly quickly “U.Mass Amherst”.
There are a lot of jobs in computer science, and you don’t need to go to Harvard to get hired, or to do well, or to be promoted in high tech jobs.
@Mom2001 didn’t say, unless I missed it, how good or “okay” her son’s grades are, other than “not perfect”. However, his hobbies such as “Computer Science and … various science competitions” sound like hobbies that a computer science program might like to see. You don’t need perfect grades to go to “very good but not Ivy League equivalent” universities. Also, this gives him a chance to see what he is good at and cares about, which would seem to improve the likelihood of picking an appropriate major and an appropriate university.
So, if his grades are not perfect, depending upon how “not perfect” this might keep him out of Harvard, MIT, Caltech, and Stanford for undergrad. I am not sure this is a problem. Perhaps whether or not this is a problem might depend upon what his grades are, and where he would want to go to university. Definitely I think that he might want to get some input regarding where he might realistically be able to get in with the grades that he currently has and given what financial resources are available, and then figure out whether he is okay with the choices that he is likely to have.
For your son…GPA is not the most important thing. Sure…he might. It have some colleges as options when he applies…but so what? There are plenty of colleges who will be very happy to have him with the GPA he has.
It sounds like you want him to get all As when he is also interested in doing other things.
Like I said…there are 3000 colleges…or so.
He will have college choices.
I understand , " not perfect’ is a broad term. Half of my son’s classmates upset when they got 97-98 in math. his math grade is 85 . He is talented in math ( it is not my assessment) , but he never applied himself and did not learn how to study. IMHO it would be pretty difficult to be accepted to a good engineering program without a strong base in math (and a higher grade ) .
We are on East Cost and prefer him to find college with a good engineering program on East Coast. Any suggestion?
We visited some colleges last year , he interacts online with some students and somehow has this idea that he has a Chance to get into good college with his grades and his rewards in competitions. But I have doubts.
@4getit
We visited several colleges last year , just general campus tour . Could you please explain how to arrange a meeting with admission officers ?
To get a meeting with a college admissions officer you call and ask for it. In your son’s case, that would be a good idea as from your description, he needs to understand what a college engineering program entails. You need as good a foundation in math as possible and good (also meaning efficient) study habits.
In the better schools everyone applying will “have the grades” and the discriminator becomes your drive, your leadership qualities, etc.
@HPuck35
Thank you . We will try to call admission and schedule a meeting . I have degree in engineering myself and know what level of math is required, but did not succeed to explaining it to my DS.
OP, I’m just thinking about your real question, which is how to brace him for rejection without squashing his ambition. I would simply say that college admission has to be considered as a balanced set of applications. So he needs a safety, a “hopefully”, a reach, and if it’s important, the Impossible Dream. One of mine really wanted to visit and apply to a school that was ridiculous, it is hard to watch. Eventually he changed his mind, on his own.
It may be that if you back off a little, and even visit the school, he will evolve his position. But give him space to do that. Meanwhile, it’s okay as the parent to set some boundaries – safety school needs to be located, or maybe two. Put it squarely on your own peace of mind " I’m going to ask you to apply to two safety schools of your choice" . Remind him (and you) that the whole choice of where to go is far away, and does not need to be tackled or addressed yet. (Lots of cc parents spend months agonizing over “choices” that never materialize). Set limits on the overstudying just as you would lazy studying.
Keep providing balance and perspective, and never ever say " I told you so", even when you did 
Your son sounds like a fine student and is doing things that interest him and is doing his best. I think your catstrophizing, saying that he won’t get into a good college or that he isn’t doing his best, is doing damage because he sees your disappointment and disapproval. I would be more positive and let him do the best that he can with the amount of time that he wants to put into it. He doesn’t need you to tell him that he needs to do well. At the end of the day, he has to want something badly enough himself, not want to please you.
He also needs 8 hours of sleep a night, which many HS students do not get and it damages their brains.
Don’t worry, but if you must, do it privately. There really isn’t anything to worry about.
A year from now, he will have a record, it will be good enough and there will be a number of colleges vying for him to go there. There are opportunities in engineering for people with all backgrounds. He is the prize, not the college.
I would take him to visit an elite college over the summer. That might inspire him to do better in junior year. (The most important year for college admissions) Sometimes it is just a matter of learning how to study efficiently. Has he taken a ‘soft skills’ class? He might be able to achieve better grades in the same time by changing how he studies and how he takes notes, or increasing his class participation. He will take the PSAT next fall which can result in scholarship money (NMF) with an excellent score. Studying for the SAT during the summer will help that test too.
please watch this video by malcolm gladwell (I have posted it before) and get your child to watch it too. I agree with this 99.999999% and it will help (if you /your child are willing to follow his advice) to reset what you/ he are looking for and lead to a better outcome and maybe a lot less stress from now - until the college application process is finished as well as the 4 years your child will spend as an undergraduate student.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UEwbRWFZVc
It is OK to not have stellar GPA / SATs. (For SATs, I’d say it is enough to take some practice tests to learn pacing, then concentrate on improving any weak areas in math). However, it would be good for an engineering student to have good study habits. The “wing it” method does not work as well at the college level.