<p>Er, when there are $90 in unexpected charges on that cell phone bill, you had better believe that I go through it! Partly because I expect my d. to pay for the excess charges she runs up.... and I do have to figure out who is responsible for the excess by going over the call record.</p>
<p>
[quote]
We did give them four years of college tuition. That doesn't mean I have the right to intrude on their lives. It was my gift to them.
[/quote]
Guess what? I'm poor. </p>
<p>Not by world standards, but by CC standards and definitely by college tuition standards. The COA at my daughter's school is more than my annual income. </p>
<p>I don't have $200,000 to "give" to my kids. I don't even have $10K to "give" them. Did you have to borrow to put your kids through college? Would you consider money you borrowed a "gift"? I'm a single parent and self-employed (no pension to look forward to) -- and years after my kids graduate, I will still be making monthly payments for the education that I subsidized. </p>
<p>I don't resent paying -- I want to help my kids-- but damn right there are strings attached and I am not going to go into debt paying for a benefit that my kid isn't getting. If the kid is flunking or not completing course work, then they are not getting the "education" that is being paid for no matter whose fault it is. So yes, I want to know. I'm not talking about A's vs. B's -- I'm talking about D's & F's or unfinished classes for which no credit is awarded. How is a kid "learning" if that is what their grades reflect? </p>
<p>I might feel differently if my kids had been practical and chosen to attend in-state publics from the start. I certainly never paid much attention to their grades when they were in high school, and I probably wouldn't have given a second thought to paying in-state tuition. But my kids each opted for luxury items -- private colleges -- and that is above and beyond anything that I think should be my obligation. It's worth it to me when I see my daughter doing well and maximizing the opportunity she has -- but that still comes back down to my seeing where my money goes.</p>
<p>To me, the whole definition of being an "adult" is one of accountability -- adults do not get something for nothing, nor can they rely on "gifts" to get by in life. So it is inconsistent in my mind to say that one's offspring is an "adult" who is entitled to "privacy" and then at the same time I am subsidizing them. My d. is a 20 year old who is relying on me for financial support -- that creates an obligation to me, precisely because she is an adult and not a child. It's no different than the obligation she would have to an employer to justify her salary, or to a lender -- if she wants money, she will have to document that she is doing whatever it is she has represented that she would do in order to get the money.</p>
<p>swimcatsmom: There are letter grades on file at the registrar's office, and when students apply to graduate school, the school sends a transcript with the letter grades and GPA and all that. Students can go and ask to see their letter grades, but almost never do, as it's not in the spirit of the school. It's one of the things that appeals to many of the students. If you're not making satisfactory progress (failing a class) they notify you.</p>
<p>"For the record, unless the kid signs the waver, parents do not see grades."</p>
<p>Obviously that must be true at Chicago, but certainly not my own D's school. I've never asked to see grades (not of her, not of the college). They merely routinely send them to me anyway, as a courtesy. I do not believe she signed any waiver.</p>
<p>They also send me a copy of the same letters they send to her, informing her each year who has provided a scholarship this year to her, and asking her to send a thank you letter. I do make sure she does that, but I never have to nag about it.</p>
<p>Even though in her case I don't really "need" this information, I do appreciate it because I consider a sign of their respect for me as her parent (providing information), rather than some indication that they consider her a baby who needs looking after.</p>
<p>
[quote]
He claims to be graduating Magna Cum Laud. We will have to see about that.
[/quote]
This is a good one! ;)</p>
<p>I am poor too -
They are paying for their own schooling as well - we split the cost. I checked on their grades in high school but college? Nope. They either have or expect to have graduated with +$20000 in loans - if they are responsible enough to borrow that much then they are responsible enough to have privacy.</p>
<p>Are you parents sure that when the grades are mailed to "you" they have your name on the envelope and not your childs name?</p>
<p>Read the law - FERPA - that was posted above. It is very specific and clear. It is probably even mentioned on the school's website and your children probably signed a waiver. (Even if a poster misread it.)</p>
<p>BTW - my kids don't have perfect academics. I have had kids retake courses because of failure or near failure. For some reason they always tell me when things are going south. We work it out. As long as they are responsible, I don't have to pry. They are very accountable.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are you parents sure that when the grades are mailed to "you" they have your name on the envelope and not your childs name?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Absolutely yes. I always read the name on the envelope before opening mail.</p>
<p>Don't mean to be disagreeable, but gladmom seems to have found something with respect to the parents right to see grades. Those of you who need to be convinced start by reading the NYT article linked to in post #50.</p>
<p>It appears that FERPA does give parents who claim their college students as dependents the right to see their grades. However, MOST COLLEGES misunderstand this and do not allow it, only giving the parents access if their child signs a waiver.</p>
<p>Read what Harvard says (they have a pretty good law school, so they probably know what they're doing) Harvard</a> University FAS Registrar's Office: Transcripts / Certification / FERPA</p>
<p>"Parents or legal guardians of undergraduate students are ordinarily informed of important changes of status, such as leaves of absence, probation, and requirement to withdraw, and are sent grades for the year in July. Parents or legal guardians of freshmen are also sent grades after the end of the fall term." </p>
<p>also NC state <a href="http://www.ncsu.edu/legal/legal_topics/student_privacy.php:%5B/url%5D">http://www.ncsu.edu/legal/legal_topics/student_privacy.php:</a>
"FERPA allows parent access to education records where the parent supplies proof that the student is a dependent for tax purposes. Proof may be supplied by either (i) have the student verify dependency with the US Department of Education form , or (ii) parents may provide Registration and Records with a copy of their most recent federal income tax return, showing the student was claimed as a dependent for exemption purposes." </p>
<p>The new proposal from Dept. of Education on FERPA (see NYT article) is expected to clarify that this has always been the case--and then the norm at colleges will likely change. If your student is at a college that now requires a waiver, I would think they might switch over by the Fall term, later this year.</p>
<p>Students are, understandably, concerned about the impending loss of some of their privacy.</p>
<p>your ncsu link didn't work for me - but I did a search on ferpa at the ncsu site and came up with this:</p>
<p>Legal</a> Affairs - FERPA Forms</p>
<p>
[quote]
he FERPA release form is intended primarily for use when a prospective employer or graduate school wants to see the student's grades and/or disciplinary record. NC State recommends that parents NOT use this release as a way of accessing their child's grades. Grade reports are sent electronically to the student so he or she may send them on to the parents. If parents seek the grades directly from NC State, there are two negative results. First, it burdens the university with unneccesary administrative costs. Second, it shows the student that the parents don't trust him or her.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This - I would agree with - IMO it is just much better for the parents to get the grades from the students. Regardless of who's rights are whose under the law.
Actually the same happened in high school - my kids brought home thier report card for me to look at.
Parent's who have a agreement with their kids that they get a 3.5 each semester can check this on the student's grade report. If your student won't show you the grade report then pull the purse strings.</p>
<p>"Are you parents sure that when the grades are mailed to "you" they have your name on the envelope and not your childs name?"</p>
<p>Rude response if ever there was one. </p>
<p>Yes, ma'am. I can read. And the University did not make a mistake and address my D's mail to me, and surely wouldn't have done it a minimum of 10 times so far. </p>
<p>Your smug & superior tone is really annoying.</p>
<p>I think the situation is easier for schools that require you to submit copies of income tax returns (which prove that child is listed as dependent) as a requirement for FA. I happen to know that Stanford and UofChicago, for example do. Harvard probably does also. Many schools, including state schools, do not require income tax returns, so they would need the proof of dependency to send grades without child's permission.</p>
<p>You would think they could deduce this info from FAFSA. I checked the FAFSA forms, and they don't ask specifically if the student is claimed on the parents income tax, although they do ask how many family members there are and how many exemptions are claimed on the tax return. Maybe this wouldn't be legal proof enough for the privacy policy, but they certainly seem to use all of our other claims on FAFSA as proof enough for whether or not your child gets FA.</p>
<p>It certainly would be nice if students would all willingly share their grades with parents who are contributing financially to their educations, and I'm sure that in most cases they do. But, there will always be some kids who are struggling, for whatever reasons, who are reluctant to share the bad news until it is too late. Then the student, of course, will suffer consequences, and it will be a learning experience for him. But the parents could also suffer great financial consequences and it becomes a learning experience for them too.</p>
<p>^^Sorry about the NCSU link. Let's try again:
Legal</a> Affairs - Student Privacy - Buckley Amendment (FERPA)</p>
<p>Just noticed this thread. My children attend/attended the same school as midmo's son. I do remember S discussing the form which would allow parental access to his grades when he matriculated. D asked if she had to sign it when it came for her and I told her that her dad (my ex,who pays the bills) would certainly expect it. We have both always received copies of the grades, but generally we know about them before they arrive in the mail. Grades are mailed to parents, but the kids can access them via internet as they are posted and each night after they are/were home. If they make it home before the deadline for posting grades, it is common to hear expressions of delight or moans of "what do you mean I got a whatever grade" as they access their grades around 7 pm when the updates are posted.</p>
<p>ephiphany - calm down, I was just wondering - my daughter's college bill is mailed here with her name on it.
(don't tell anyone, but I open it)</p>
<p>
[quote]
It certainly would be nice if students would all willingly share their grades with parents who are contributing financially to their educations, and I'm sure that in most cases they do. But, there will always be some kids who are struggling, for whatever reasons, who are reluctant to share the bad news until it is too late. Then the student, of course, will suffer consequences, and it will be a learning experience for him. But the parents could also suffer great financial consequences and it becomes a learning experience for them too.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>yep but they don't get their grades until the end of semester - then if they have failed to meet standards or show grades- they don't go back.</p>
<p>I need to go back to thinking how wonderful my own kids are. They have never lied to me about their grades and have always been honest and open.
My whole point is - I want my kids to take ownership of their education. If they make dean's list etc... They do it for themselves not for me.<br>
But while I am feeling smug and superior -
Do you guys ask for the grades of each paper/test/assignment for each course they take?</p>
<p>2VU0609,
Similar experience here :), although my D is not vaguely home or near home when her own grades are posted, & I'm not sure hers would be posted within the semester ("each night"), but only at semester's end. Nevertheless, the larger point is, yes, most students tend to access these kinds of records online now. If the U additionally snail-mails the students their grades (later), they would be snail-mailed to their <em>campus</em> address, with their very own student names on them. They would not mail, and have never mailed, their grades to <em>them</em> with their parents' names on the envelope, to the parents' address; nor has student mail of this kind ever been mailed with the student's name on it to the family's home address -- ever. I would know since I'm the only one with a mailbox key. (That's for any parent here who believes I'm reading-impaired.)</p>
<p>"Do you guys ask for the grades of each paper/test/assignment for each course they take?"</p>
<p>Listen to yourself. </p>
<p>First you tell me to "calm down." Then, in the same reply, you make the above snotty statement.</p>
<p>The person who needs help with visual discrimination (reading) is yourself. Some of us (I wasn't the only one) who RECEIVE the grades passively from the U. never ASKED for them. We're merely reporting that we receive them WITHOUT BEING ASKED. Apparently to you, that is a crime, and proof of how superior you are as a parent to those of us who receive unsolicited mail. </p>
<p>I'm very glad that you consider yourself an enlightened parent, but I am so glad you were never my parent -- with that tone. Wow.</p>
<p>just a mom: Usually, the first semester/quarter that a child gets the really bad grades they are put on academic warning or probation. They have a chance to try again and won't be actually told to leave the school unless they continue to do so poorly. If parents have no idea of the problems after that first semester with difficulties, then they are even further left out of the loop (that they are probably paying for). So for these few kids--the few who won't share the bad news--any info that the parent can get is better than no info, even if after a whole semester.</p>
<p>..^^ Typo. I meant WITHOUT <em>ASKING</em> FOR THEM. (Not "without being asked")</p>
<p>My kids are still kids, whatever the calendar may say. How do I know? I still get phone calls for fender-benders, stitches, utility bills, rashes, insurance questions, etc., etc., etc. I also get calls about upcoming course choices, internship opportunities, exciting project results, etc. </p>
<p>I'm 47, and somewhere along the way I stopped calling my mom on the way to the hospital for insurance info. (Of course, I still usually call mom on the way home from the ER to let her know what's been going on)</p>
<p>At our younger son's orientation, we took a break and looked at the campus during the FERPA talk. I knew I'd have his login, since he tends to like to have his dorm fees paid and money transferred to his account. At our house, it's really a non-issue, and my knowledge of their affairs has helped me help them through some rough stuff.</p>
<p>My ONE call to a university was when I had become very concerned about my son, and I wanted to know where to point him for help and support. I shared the situation with the Dean, and did NOT expect any information FROM the Dean. The conversation gave me some options to share with my son, which he pursued (on his own), and the issues are largely in the past.</p>
<p>I don't think it's an issue of trust. I have boys. They share stuff. When they are asked, or when they have to (mom, i just wrecked the car). Other than that I think they operate on a "need to know" basis, and our definitions of what mom "needs to know" differ sometimes. So I ask. And they (for the most part) tell.</p>
<p>2VU: Thanks for that information about VU. It seems, then, that my son must have signed a waiver before matriculating--without reading it, since he told me he didn't remember anything about it. </p>
<p>I suspect he knows we think it is appropriate for parents to be informed about their kids' general progress, or lack of it, towards a degree, so he signed it to avoid future questions.</p>
<p>Given the nature of the dean's (engineering) talk to parents (on family weekend, I guess), in which he encouraged parents to pay attention and told us it was standard policy to notify parents of freshmen at mid-semester if a class was being failed, I think they must have close to 100% of the waivers signed.</p>
<p>I must say I am amazed that some of the parents on this thread think it is a sign of superior parenting or superior parent/child relationships that they have no interest in the grade reports. If one of my kids runs into trouble with grades in college, I would hope to be able to play a role in advising them how to dig themselves out of the hole.</p>
<p>I don't think it is superior or inferior. If my kids were having academic difficulties, I know from experience that they would tell me so, much as they would if they were feeling poorly. And if they asked for help in dealing with it, I'd provide what I could. And if they didn't want my assistance, I'd accept that as well.</p>
<p>As for worry, we got the license when they were born.</p>