Parent/student priorities

Parents Forum
41

<p>The OP will have a 30+ year career to take care of retirement, the amount of debt is small relative to the value of the career (present value of all future earnings is many millions), and the OP believes option 2 affords him much better opportunities and he might just be right. I certainly don’t know and neither do you. </p>

<p>The optimal strategy is still to maximize the value of the career. If a 35K debt does that, then it is likely worth it. If going to graduate school does that, then it may be worth it too. </p>

<p>As far as the 14 year old goes, s/he’ll be in the same situation as many 14 year olds having a parent without much money. If the 14 year old does well enough, they will be able to go to a private school on FinAid. I don’t see that as relevant to maximizing the value of the career. </p>

<p>To judge the OP’s life choices is patronizing and I won’t engage in that.</p>

42

<p>Do any of the three schools (OSU, Tulsa, OU) have any significant prestige advantage over the other, as it pertains to getting hired for a mechanical engineering job in or out of Oklahoma?</p>

<p>If a possible reason for taking a more debt option is greater opportunities after graduation, it would be wise to figure out how much of a difference in opportunities after graduation the different schools actually make.</p>

43

<p>thumper1 and ClassicRockerDad,</p>

<p>I feel like I may not have explained myself well. CRD pretty much described my criteria for grad school. I was going to try and finish my BS with the best grades possible, hopefully do well on the GRE and then apply to the best grad schools that offer the best merit/financial aid to top students…there is no way i’m shelling out 50k a year to go to any grad school.</p>

<p>I know I have a shorter career than those fresh out of high school, but surely a 30 year career with an MS from a top school is better than a 32 career with a BS from a very mediocre school with maybe/maybe not a MS from the best school my employer might pay for right?</p>

<p>I’m in no way stuck on any decision still, but this was the idea behind my grad school aspirations that I clearly did not convey well.</p>

<p>ucbalumnus,</p>

<p>OU and OSU are the state flagships who appear to be identical and most people decide which one to go to based on their sports team affiliation (I have none). TU is known as the best school in the state, by how much I don’t know (ranked 80’s vs 100+ for OU and OSU). I know they have a top ranking PetE program.</p>

<p>AS far as OSU tulsa, i’m not sure if its regarded the same school as OSU stillwater, or if it’s like the UC system where Berkeley/USC>>>>>>everything else. They are all ABET accredited</p>

44

<p>My husband also had 30 years to get his retirement house in order (he is not retired). Still, not having debt was a huge help to us as a young married couple with a child. We had NO debt, which meant we could save our money for the down payment on a house, and buy a car that was reliable…things we would have had much more difficulty doing with a college loan payment of any amount hanging over our heads.</p>

<p>This OP sounds like he will have a small amount of debt regardless. In my opinion, the schools he has put forth here are not significantly different in terms of the engineering degree he will get.</p>

<p>At this point, he needs the degree…not the debt. He has a wife in school now as well, and in a couple of years,meh will be looking at college options for his 14 year old.</p>

<p>ClassicRocker, you have a wonderful way of spending other people’s money. This OP has options that are going to be affordable to him, will get him the same kind of degree, and will likely get him similar types of job offers (as they are all in the same region). If he wants to spend money on an advanced degree in sometime in the future whole he is WORKING…fine. But the engineers in this family say that advanced degree is not necessary for an entry level position in the vast majority of engineering firms. And FYI all of them have successfully moved up the engineering ladder…and never got masters degrees. Of course, some companies will want that advanced degree…eventually. But really, experience in the field can only help…and should come first.</p>

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<p>CRD…</p>

<p>I’m not opposed to “some debt” for young folks in college. The basic Stafford loans can be paid off by the time the employed person is about 32 years old…when life really gets going (home, kids, the whole nine yards…when making student loan payments is even MORE difficult). </p>

<p>As long as there are lower cost decent options, I don’t think it’s a good idea for a married father of four to unnecessarily take on $30k+ of debt. To a 21 year old single person making $50k+ per year, making those $300 a month payments is rather easy. </p>

<p>As soon as this dad is employed, likely he and his wife will want to move on to the normal things families do, such as buy a home. The 3 little ones will soon be at an even more expensive stage. The older one (a teen), well we all know how expensive teens are. lol Just their car insurance premiums will give a person a heart attack. </p>

<p>I don’t think the attitude should be…well the older one will just have to suck it up because his parents can’t help him thru college.</p>

46

<p>surely a 30 year career with an MS from a top school is better than a 32 career with a BS from a very mediocre school with maybe/maybe not a MS from the best school my employer might pay for right?</p>

<p>No one is saying that you have to go 32 years with only a BS. It’s not all or nothing. What is the “top school” (OU? OSU?). If it’s one of those, neither is a “top school”. They’re “good schools”, but not “top schools”. </p>

<p>Either way, it’s not usually a good idea to get both the BS and MS at the same school. You’re supposed to CHANGE schools to expose yourself to more profs, etc. </p>

<p>I don’t understand what you’re saying about what your employer might or might not pay for. Any employer who will pay for a MS, isnt’ going to care where you got your BS at. And there are enough MS spots in engineering out there, that someone with a high GPA can get a spot.</p>

<p>Also, a number of employers have (I don’t know how to adequately describe this) distance learning from their own offices. So, employees are actually taking classes while at work to get their MS degrees from big name schools. A couple of my brothers got their grad degrees from USC and they rarely had to go on campus. They went to “class” at their companies using Distance Learning rooms that were equipped with the technology to do so. (someone else can explain this better than I can.)</p>

47

<p>My understanding of the OP’s plan is as follows

  1. Currently a sophomore in engineering at a CC in Oklahoma
  2. Transfer to a decent 4 year school to finish BS. Do well enough to be competitive to gain admission and support for a well know grad school.
  3. Attend well known grad school, earn at least an MS, perhaps more.
  4. Take advantage of superior national recruiting at this well known grad school to obtain an excellent position and hopefully move to the east coast and launch a fascinating and lucrative career.</p>

<p>I think it’s a decent plan. I would also consider the possibility of applying as a transfer to a well known engineering school that awards needs based financial aid, for example Cornell. Of course that would eliminate the free daycare, so there is a cost associated with that too. It would allow the OP to gain access to the superior national recruiting with just a BS.</p>

48

<p>What is the argument about?</p>

<p>Thumper1 says:
“Think about grad school later. That is not essential right now. And FYI, every company my husband has worked for has offered some compensation for grad school courses…another reason to get into the workforce.”</p>

<p>ClassicrockerDad says:
“I also think striving for graduate school is reasonable, but a) you must be able to get into a good one, and 2) you need to look for funding opportunities such as paid for by an employer or a fellowship.”</p>

<p>OP says:
“I know I have a shorter career than those fresh out of high school, but surely a 30 year career with an MS from a top school is better than a 32 career with a BS from a very mediocre school with maybe/maybe not a MS from the best school my employer might pay for right?”</p>

<p>So pretty much everyone is saying to consider an option where OP is getting paid, AND is also having his graduate degree paid for.</p>

<p>Why fight over semantics and details?</p>

<p>I think you’ve gotten the idea, OP. You don’t need a graduate degree to get a job. Just keep your gpa up. An engineering degree is USUALLY a specialty in and of itself. You will probably choose a discipline at your university. In addition, most engineering programs are offering additional certifications in key areas of expertise/interest to go along with your degree (project management, HSE, Industrial Engineering, etc.) So on top of your (Mechanical, Electrical, Chemical, etc.) Engineering degree, you can have other certifications.</p>

<p>But if you WANT the graduate degree, that’s admirable - perhaps your employer will foot the bill - which would be awesome.</p>

<p>Not that big of a deal getting the MS at the same school as the BS for engineering - especially if it’s a great school.</p>

<p>In engineering, many times, the degrees only get you in the door. After you’re in, it’s what you DO, how you apply what you LEARN, how you interact with others, etc. that matters and often dictates upward mobility. There are a lot of Associate Degreed people who are in middle management in big engineering firms, and there are a lot of Masters level people who have stagnated in fairly entry level engineering positions - and vice versa. In other words:</p>

<p>It’s what you DO. Learn everything you can from every avenue available, and then APPLY it. You’ll do great, OP.</p>

49

<p>OP, would it be possible to attend OSU Stillwater’s career fairs since you’ll go to one of the branch campuses? If you don’t know, I’d recommend contacting the head of the ME major at OSU or ask to be put on the email listserve.</p>

50

<p>Options One and Two seem like the obvious choices to me. This OP has a family to consider…three very young kids, and a 14 year old. It would be nice if he didn’t uproot the family until he is ready to move for a job.</p>

51

<p>ClassicRockerDad is always going to push you to the ‘best’ school regardless of cost or your family situation. He just figures your return on that investment will be enough to offset the debt you would take on. CRD, one thing you have not considered is that his 14 year old is going to hit college at just the time when the OP actually starts earning a decent salary, or a couple of years after. She likely will not get great FA, especially if mom is earning then as well. So they will be one of those families out here with no college savings (and no retirement savings) and a kid with a high EFC. Again, I think the lowest debt option in this case is a good one.</p>

52

<p>I think students should attend the best school they can AFFORD (that they also like for other reasons). Simply attending a more expensive school for the sake of attending a more expensive school…especially when the price is out of range…is…in my opinion.,.not worth considering.</p>

53

<p>mom2collegekids,</p>

<p>Are you sure you read the right thread before replying? You are so far off anything anyone has said i’m not even sure where to begin with a reply.</p>

<p>OU, OSU and TU are my only options to finish my bachelors degree. By top school I was referring to a scenario that involves me applying to top grad schools only. I’m well aware my three undergrad options are fairly similar, i’ve never referred to any of them as “top schools” by national standards. I’m not even gonna reply to the comment about going 32 years with only a BS, it’s clear as day what I meant in the very piece of my post you quoted.</p>

<p>Who said anything about potentially getting a potential MS from the same place I got my BS?</p>

<p>When I say an employer might or might not pay a bachelors, I mean not every single employer out there pays for their employee’s to get their MS, thus some might pay and others might not…I almost feel like you trolling me at this point.</p>

<p>I hate to get short with you because I understand you taking time out of your day to reply here, but cmon.</p>

<p>CRD,</p>

<p>That was/is my plan exactly. I threw out the option of applying to top schools to finish out my BS. I feel like that is not the best option for someone in my position, and I really would prefer to not uproot the family for 2 years of undergrad.</p>

<p>cromette,</p>

<p>Thanks for your reply, that is a pretty accurate assessment of where my thoughts are right now.</p>

<p>whenhen,</p>

<p>I’ll have to look into that, they have made it very hard to determine whether the 2 schools are the same or completely different.</p>

<p>thumper1,</p>

<p>I agree </p>

<p>intparent,</p>

<p>Clearly you and CRD have very different views on the situation, and I can respect both sides, but I feel like you are under the impression i’m considering getting myself into heavy debt here…I’d say my tolerance level for debt between option 1 and 2 would be 10-15k total (which could potentially be eliminated with work-study or internships). I really don’t feel like this amount of debt is going to change anything in our future, especially with a 2 income family in two years. Whether that cost is worth it or not is what i’m debating, but i’m really not talking about life crippling sums here I don’t think.
I agree 100% that we need to consider our college goals for my daughter in the not too distance future too, but once again I don’t think this some over that many years is going to change anything for her in comparison to graduating debt free.</p>

54

<p>

</p>

<p>It’s not relevant to maximizing the value of a lifelong career except for providing a good reason to do so. </p>

<p>

Again, you haven’t actually provided any sound mathematical reasoning, just your irrational fear of any and all debt.</p>

<p>jgoddensa, I like your plan and your approach to it. Good luck.</p>

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<p>All the engineers I know have been able to get good jobs with a BS. I agree get a future employer to pay for a masters. I understand the worry about debt, but $20,000 is a car. If you don’t have credit card debt it may be a very feasible amount to pay off. But only you can run the numbers and see if it makes sense for you - I have no idea what your other expenses are or how much your wife is likely to be making.</p>

56

<p>The career surveys of the schools in question may be of some help in seeing if they are significantly different in terms of job prospects. However, be careful in making comparisons, since survey and reporting methodology may differ.</p>

<p>[OU</a> Career Services | Full Time Salary Offers](<a href=“http://www.ou.edu/career/students/find-a-job/salary-statistics/full-time.html]OU”>http://www.ou.edu/career/students/find-a-job/salary-statistics/full-time.html)
<a href=“https://stillwater.sharepoint.okstate.edu/HIREOSUGRADS/Salary/20122.aspx[/url]”>https://stillwater.sharepoint.okstate.edu/HIREOSUGRADS/Salary/20122.aspx&lt;/a&gt;
[Graduate</a> Survey - University of Tulsa](<a href=“http://www.utulsa.edu/student-life/career-services/Graduate-Survey.aspx]Graduate”>http://www.utulsa.edu/student-life/career-services/Graduate-Survey.aspx)</p>

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<p>Mathmom,</p>

<p>We are currently completely debt free and live reasonably frugally. All those who have replied have put nerves at ease about my chances of landing a job with only a BS. If I’m not able to gain admission to a top school on a full scholarship then the point is moot. What the new dilemma seems to be is if that is a realistic possibility, does it make sense to do that as supposed to going straight to work with a BS. </p>

<p>The other debate is whether it is worth going into minimal debt (10-15k) to finish my undergrad at a decently better school in all aspects in the off chance that I end my studies at the BS level before entering the workforce (and potentially have my employer pay for it later at who knows what school)</p>

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<p>I don’t feel qualified to speak about grad degrees in engineering, or how much debt is doable; I think you and your wife are doing great, and the only thing I would urge is that you take her struggles into account in your decision. Option 1 sounds great, but would have you unavailable in the evening; in addition to the cost to you (missing your kids’ lives), there is the cost to your wife, who is also working toward a degree but even if she weren’t, three young kids is a burden to care for unaided, and to your older daughter, working toward her degree in high school, who might be needed to fill in for you, which would take away from her homework time. I’m sure your wife is as supportive as she can be, just as you are for her, but the reality of long hours and no help will wear on all of you. Plan 2 whereby you all have something of what you need (support systems nearby, some time when you need it) and some cost to all (reasonable debt) seems preferable to me than plan 1. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Apply to all three schools. Apply for financial aid at all three schools. Compare your options when you have them in hand…and then make a decision about where to complete your BS degree (although I do think not uprooting your family is something to consider too).</p>

<p>When you are a college senior, apply for jobs. </p>

<p>Get some work experience, and THEN apply for a masters program which hopefully your employer will help you fund. You will also have a better sense of exactly what masters you actually want to get. My husband says IF he had gotten a masters (he didn’t) he would have gotten it in business…because as a consulting engineer and eventually a project manager (budgets were part of his job) he felt that would be valuable.</p>

60

<p>I would think this involves a family meeting, well between you, your wife and 14 year old daughter. How do they feel about moving to a new place for two years?</p>

<p>I’m thinking that if you move to finish up your undergrad, and then move again for a new job, your daughter will be in two or three high schools - that’s pretty tough academically and socially.</p>

<p>As for graduate school, holding off may be a good option if only because you may end up getting a different degree. You may find getting a MBA more suitable for your career path instead of an graduate engineering degree.</p>

<p>just my two cents. good luck.</p>