Parental Pressure and Deciding on a College (Money Issues)

Parents Forum
1

<p>I've looked at other threads (the one on Rice with money offered and Stanford without) and while my question also involves finances and school choice, it's a very different situation, so I'll be very thankful for any insight from other parents.</p>

<p>For some background: my parents are divorced, and my noncustodial parent, my dad, is offering a great deal of financial support for college (around 18k a year, and while more is possible if needed, he will be borrowing, and so I would prefer not having to ask) while my mom can also offer a limited amount for my schooling expenses. I don't prefer being too big a burden on her, as she is a single-parent and is taking care of both my younger sister (high school freshman) and my grandmother, and with child support for me ending this year and college coming up, money will be tight all around. We live in one of those areas where the property values and cost of living have been driven up significantly because the public schools are very good, making this even more difficult for her because while we are definitely not in danger of going broke living there, it's still going to be harder to manage than it has been, especially if I need her to help me pay for college and the expenses associated with it. </p>

<p>With that in mind, my top choices among colleges currently accepted-to are all very feasible ones that don't require taking on huge debt.UCLA in-state is nearly manageable with about 23-24K expenses between my mom and dad, and Wellesley with a rather generous financial aid leaves us with about 21-22K in expenses, and I'd be very happy to attend either though I realize that they are very different schools. As a student who pulled up my GPA from about a 3.5 UW at the end of sophomore year to nearly a 3.8 UW by the end of my first semester this year with several APs and Honors courses, I am fully determined to get as much as I can academically from any undergraduate experience. I'm not particularly attracted to anything strongly over everything else (but my choice would almost definitely be one of the two).</p>

<p>My mother, though disagrees strongly with prioritizing either choice. I applied to most of the other UC schools as well, and I've been offered a scholarship at UC Irvine for 9k a year (as well as accepted to the Honors Program) and, it would make things much easier for her, since that would almost certainly mean we'd have about that much more money to spare, and that little bit of breathing room means a lot to her. We've been arguing about this, meaning neither of us is likely to be completely rational, so I think I need an outside opinion. She says I'm ridiculous to turn my nose up what is definitely a good school when it would be that much easier to pay for, while to me, it's just not even on my radar because I have choices I know I'll like (UCLA) and which just seem to me, in all other respects but cost, to be a much better fit for me (Wellesley). </p>

<p>What I want to know is: am I being pigheaded for not considering UC Irvine a serious option given that it's much cheaper, still a decent school, and undergrad doesn't matter that much when I'm pretty certain I'm going to go to grad school or law school at some point? Or should I take the leap, do all I can to make it that much easier (working over the summer and during the school year, whether its work-study at Wellesley or other on-campus employment at LA) and look to choices that I prefer. I'm young, and prestige has influenced me in not considering Irvine seriously, but there's the idea that my hard work to pull up my GPA and such should yield the reward of attending a school that would otherwise have been a ridiculous "reach." She's an immigrant from Taiwan, so she doesn't know much about how colleges are comparatively, or about going through undergrad here, and the people she gets advice from don't really know that much more - kids in very different financial situations.</p>

<p>Or rather, in one sentence: am I being childish, or is my insistence on looking to options that are still financially possible, but much more difficult for my mom and family ultimately going to be the right one if I'm very certain that I would get more out of it?</p>

<p>Wow, that was wordy. I'll be very thankful for any advice you parents might have to offer, since in the end, both sides of this argument (my mother and I) don't know all that much about putting an undergrad student through college here.</p>

2

<p>Your mother is a member of the Sandwich Generation--having to provide monetary support to her parents while providing for her own children and her own retirement (actually, she is probably skipping saving for retirement). And she is doing it all on one salary. She sounds amazing! Why you would want to be a burden on this woman if you didn't have to be?</p>

<p>I have read great things about the UCI honors program--search the archives here and read about it. It is not "chopped liver." It may not be as prestigious as UCLA--but prestige is something for people who can afford it.</p>

<p>Take off your "child's eyes" (It's all about me!) and put yourself into your mother's shoes. And if you want to be an adult--Work two jobs in the summer. Take out student loans. Have an on-campus job during the school year. And take UCI's $$.</p>

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<p>If your dad can provide 18K of the expected cost of attendance, that leaves you and your mom with 3K at Wellesley and possibly 6K at UCLA, is that correct? By working two jobs this summer, you could probably cover the gap at Wellesley. Does your financial aid package at either school include a Stafford loan (which you would take out in your own name)? If not, that could give you an extra 2.5K for your first year, and more each year after that. I seem to remember that emeraldkity has written several valuable posts about how students themselves can generate funds for college - I suggest doing a search.</p>

<p>Another thing to consider is how you'll feel living on the very edge of making it financially while you're at school. Unanticipated expenses come up frequently, and it's hard to pinch every penny when others around you don't have to. And, of course, if you're at Wellesley, there's the considerable cost of coast-to-coast transportation. </p>

<p>I don't know anything at all about the UC system - would it be possible to start at Irvine and transfer to UCLA if you're dissatisfied?</p>

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<p>I agree with Frazzled1. I would suggest also contacting Wellesley to see if if could increase its financial offer, stressing your mom's responsibility toward your grandparent. Another thing to think about: UCI is going up in prestige. It may interest you that it has some of the best scholars of China in the country. If neither UCLA nor Wellesley work out UCI is a pretty good school to go to.</p>

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<p>UCI is an awesome school. Plus, the area is safe. I went there many years ago but I have a nephew there now. I believe I read that UCI got a huge donation (some time ago) which has enabled it to really make some fab improvements. There are plenty of things to do in the area. GREAT food!!!! The Bren Center (on campus) gets awesome entertainment. AND, Southern Cal boys are cute!!! The weather is great, too. Beaches VERY close!!!</p>

<p>Don't forget, if you go to Wellesely, your mom (or dad) will also have to come up with money for trips back and forth for holidays and spring breaks (has either offered to pay for these trips?) These trips could add a couple of thousand to your expenses.</p>

<p>I don't blame your mom for being very concerned about $$$. She lives in a pricey area (I'm a Californian so I know how crazy housing, property taxes, etc has gotten there).</p>

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<p>I think you should try to see if
1) you could get more financial aid
2) Get a part time/summer job to help with the expenses.</p>

<p>I don't know anything about the uc system, except that I heard its awesome. So I have no opinion about the merits of Irvine vs UCLA. But I do think you should go to school in California. You do need to consider that the travel expenses to Wellesly are going to be significant. Also, the climate is different; you are going to need a new set of winter clothes. And you are going to have ship things. And store things.</p>

<p>If you choose not to help out financially, you'll walk out of collge with approximately $25K of debt. That's not an insignificant amount of money, but its not as awful as say, $160K if you had no aid. How long will you have to pay back the money? Find that out, and then get a mortgage calculator to see what the monthly expense is going to be when you have to pay back the loan. Then take a realistic look at yourself and see if you think you are going to be able to do it. Remember that you will not be making alot of money with your first job out of college.</p>

<p>I think if you do the math, you'll be able to make a good decision.</p>

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<p>For $10k I would not likley take UCLA over UCI- both are good schools and prestige does not pay the student loans.</p>

<p>However, the difference between Wellesley and a UC must be evaluated. Depending on your major (math, science, engineering) the UC curve and competition can hit your GPA hard...more importantly, the experience you derive depends on your style. I have two UC students, one makes no effort to get to know the profs and would have been better served at a smaller school; the other would have preferred a smaller school, but took the UC for some overriding reasons, she makes it a small school....800 people in lecture, she sits in the front row & asks questions & the profs all know her name. So, which one are you? How important is the small school experience v the big school.</p>

<p>You can make a UC experience smaller by joining a sorority, club, etc. Housing is an issue at both places, after first year, most kids move off UCI's campus, lots living at Newport Beach. Similar at UCLA, I think both places have a housing lottery to stay on campus 2nd year.</p>

<p>Travel expenses are important to consider- that COA on which the school bases it's funding has nothing to do with the reality of the cost to you. We compared a couple of eastern schools, one of which appeared to give the best $ offer, but the cost of real trips made it very even with the CA school. Look at airfares online and think about how often you would come home.</p>

<p>Wellesley could be life changing, but if you are going to grad school, is it worth it????</p>

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<p>If you want to go to the higher priced colleges, I think that you should do the following: take out loans or a larger loan; work during the school year and work 2 jobs during the summer.</p>

<p>I went to a college that cost a lot of money and did work during the school year (up to 30 hours a week at an Ivy!) and also worked up to 60 hours a week over the summer. I also worked during spring break while my friends were having sunny vacations. </p>

<p>It's your education. If you want to go to the higher priced options, you should be willing to foot the extra cost instead of expecting your parents to do so.</p>

9

<p>I forgot to add: </p>

<p>Since UCI is giving you 9K a year (which is approx cost of housing) then you won't have any debt at all since your dad will pay the rest (tuition/fees, and books). </p>

<p>Since your dad's costs have now been reduced to about 10K per year, perhaps he will give you a monthly allowance??? Or help with car issues???? These are all things that girl needs to be concerned with.</p>

<p>Also, someone made a great point about the cold weather clothes issue. As a Californian who has recently moved to northern Alabama (which has colder weather that southern Cal -- but not as cold as Northeast) it was a shock to me when I had to buy sooooo many more warmer clothes -- sweaters, jackets, gloves, warmer boots/shoes. (Plus, those kinds of clothes take a LOT of room!!!!) Someone also made the point of moving the stuff back and forth each year (when dorms close). Another big consideration if going across the country.</p>

<p>Again, I vote for UCI -- the honors program is VERY good.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom-
You posted my exact same thoughts. And said them much more concisely than I ever would have!! The philosophy towards school costs you have stated is the same in our household. It is their education, how much are they willing to contribute to make it happen.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>For posting that. It really articulates something I've been trying to square away with my daughter. We have two much younger kids and can't pay ourselves into destitution for her college education, although she wants to go to a pretty expensive school and is turning her nose up at a cheaper school (she is only a junior, though), so I'm goint to ask her that very question and make sure that I receive an answer.</p>

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<p>"she wants to go to a pretty expensive school and is turning her nose up at a cheaper school"</p>

<p>"how much are they willing to contribute to make it happen."</p>

<p>"I'm going to ask her that very question and make sure that I receive an answer."</p>

<p>We had the same issues with out older son -- maybe these kids are the "designer brand name generation" and think that only "brand name" schools are for them??? </p>

<p>My son kept turning his nose up at the thought of attending a few more affordable schools (he wanted an ivy name). Finally, I put it in his lap -- how are you going to pay for it???? THEN, he became more open to looking at other choices. (He's a junior also.)</p>

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<p>I don't exactly understand the finances yet. I think you are saying that your mom can't contribute anything, and your dad $18k. If that is the case, you are short a maximum of $6k a year (actually more - Wellesley will increase an average of 5-6% a year each of the next 4 years, and maybe UCLA, too.) </p>

<p>So let's just make believe your mom won't contribute anything, and you have a $6k/yr gap. You can likely make $2k/yr with a campus job. You can likely make $2.5k a summer. So your gap at the most expensive school (UCLA) is under $10k over 4 years. Most students these days would give their eye-teeth to come out of school only $10k in debt.</p>

<p>Having said that, and Californians would know better: is UCLA a better option than UC-Irvine honors? The Wellesley choice I understand better (I am a LAC fan, though for some students they don't work). Is UCLA better than UC-Irvine+no debt+summer travel+being able to take unpaid research opportunities when they arise, etc.?</p>

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<p>We had the same issues with out older son -- maybe these kids are the "designer brand name generation" and think that only "brand name" schools are for them??? </p>

<p>My son kept turning his nose up at the thought of attending a few more affordable schools (he wanted an ivy name). Finally, I put it in his lap -- how are you going to pay for it???? THEN, he became more open to looking at other choices. (He's a junior also.)

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Where does that come from? We are boring, middle class people who drive old cars and limit our splurging to private school tuition. My daughter has never been all that interested in designer "things" but I know she's not completely open-minded about the college process. I learned on CC of the importance of financial safeties and keep urging her to find some but it goes in one ear and out the other. I finally did something I swore I never would which was to force her to go and visit SUNY ESF because I think that would be a great fit for someone who wants to be either a bio teacher or a physical therapist. Somehow I have to come up with the words to make her understand that a woman whose life goal and joy is to be a bio teacher simply can NOT leave school with $100k in debt. My question to myself has always been "what can I do, how much can I work to make sure she has no debt" but you have really helped me to see that I'm asking the wrong questions. So thank you!</p>

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<p>What are you planning to do after college? Grad school? Public interest career? Something particularly lucrative? Think hard about how you will pay for the debt AFTER you graduate from undergrad and if you will need to incur further debt to pay for grad school. It may be that you can do it or it may be that you have reached the tipping point beyond which your quality of life will be sacrificed for years to come.</p>

<p>Here's a story: I work in a large and prestigious law firm in New York (not at attorney, so no bragging, just context) where the first year associates come out of college making enormous amounts of money, but also do some very boring, tedious work for very, very long hours. That's fine for the group of them who hopes to "make partner" someday, but for the group that aspires to public interest law, politics, teaching, etc., they've learned the hard way that their law school debt holds them hostage in a job/lifestyle that they never wanted and do not enjoy because they didn't think through the finances earlier. Those same people have to factor the debt into other lifestyle choices, as well, such as when/where/how to get married, when to have children, when/where to buy a house. This is not to say that they should be felt sorry for because they are, to a one, Ivy League graduates and brilliant, but young people often don't take the long view of what that amount of debt will mean for their lives in ways big and small. Perhaps you should think about what your dreams are, what you can live without, what you CAN'T live without, and what lifestyle you aspire to at 25, 28, 30 and beyond. Good luck in whatever you choose.</p>

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<p>zoosermom,</p>

<p>I have wondered about your question as well . . . i.e. where does the expectation for designer schools come from. Well, I am afraid in the case of my kids, it came from the very private school environment that we worked hard to make possible. There is definitely an ethos at the kids' school that affirms the more expensive LACs and the big-name schools. I know there are plenty of more highly rated publics that do the same thing, but we don't have any of them in our area.</p>

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<p>zooser:</p>

<p>I wasn't speaking of your child specifically -- just kids generally. I hear the same things from other parents -- kids turning their noses up at "good schools" because they would rather go to a "name school". I certainly do not know why your child has done so. She may have her own reasons. </p>

<p>I do know that many kids have the "name brand" mentality because we parents have bought that for them. Yesterday, at my sons' tennis match, the girls all pulled their Dooney and Coach purses out of their gym bags. Imagine, 15 - 17 year olds with $250+ purses with matching $150 wallets!!! What will these girls ever look forward to? Certainly they think a $25 purse from Mervyns or Kohl's is not "good enough" for them.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE=jlauer95]
zooser:</p>

<p>I wasn't speaking of your child specifically -- just kids generally. I hear the same things from other parents -- kids turning their noses up at "good schools" because they would rather go to a "name school". I certainly do not know why your child has done so. She may have her own reasons. </p>

<p>I wasn't really asking about my daughter, more like plaintively questioning the sky. I really don't know what her specific reasons are, but I have a feeling it has to do with the fact that she is the most risk-averse person I've ever met in my life and may percieve the "known" as less risky. Definitely worth finding out. Ultimately, I know it's her choice, but I'm going to require that she visit a variety of schools between now and the fall. I think that makes sense.</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>Like most others my age, I have a vague idea of what I'm interested in studying, but not of what I want to do with my education. At this point, all I know for a fact really is what I want to major in and that I'm going to get all I can out of any undergraduate experience. As for more practical concerns, I just want to get a decent job coming out of undergrad before I look into grad school or law school.</p>

<p>That being said, I do appreciate the advice that's come up so far, though it looks like I do represent the opposing opinion to most. The exact financial situation is this: my mom can contribute something if needed (2k-3k yearly), but the way she describes it to me, it would leave very little 'breathing room' for anything else that could possibly come up. I'd do my best to pay what I can (on campus job UCLA, work-study part of aid plan at Wellesley).</p>

<p>I guess it's true that I am being childish to a certain extent, I mean, I don't have a fondness for brand-name clothing or handbags, but I've asked for, and received excellent 'top-notch' educational opportunities throughout high school (debate camp, debate travel) and because of spending so much time in a public school environment that resembles most of CC, I'm also fond of brand-name-ish schools. I know that UC Irvine (any UC really) is a good choice, though I have my reservations about going to a larger school, I've already promised myself to take everything I can out of wherever I go for undergrad. </p>

<p>could theoretically ask for more from my dad (6-figure income, kind of flakey in everything else, but there'd be limited guilt about his being able to pay it off with little trouble assuming he's taking on a loan independently to contribute) so with financial aid at Wellesley I'm in a better position than most - I just think that it's not that much more expensive in an out-of-hand way, and I do feel strongly that I'd like to go to Wellesley better, and well, they sell UCLA pretty well too, and I haven't seriously thought about UCI.</p>

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<p>Since you are considering this so seriously and respectfully, there is no doubt that a good outcome will be in your future. May I ask if you've asked your father his point of view, in a very specific sense? If so, what has he said to you?</p>