Parental support for kids in grad school or professional school

Parents Forum
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<p>My son will be making some hard decisions about grad school. If he stays in college, he can get a combined 5 year masters-bachelors. That will save him an enormous amount of money and lost wages, compared to if he did a 2 year masters later. He is in a field where he would need a masters eventually.</p>

<p>However, I only have enough money saved to pay for my kids’ undergrad degrees. </p>

<p>He would have to mainly fund the 5th year with $21K of unsubsidized graduate Stafford loans, on top of his subsidized Stafford undergrad loans. That would be a great deal of total debt, but in the long run it would save him money and put him in better shape for a good entry job in his field.</p>

<p>I understand grad students are automatically considered to be independent for financial aid purposes, and he could reportedly receive some aid/ fellowships from his grad program. However, it still would be a chunk of additional debt - $21K of grad loans is optimistic. At the same time, he could delay paying his undergrad loans for another year.</p>

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<p>It certainly is tempting… but if I were you I would let him figure it out. This may be his first real “adult” problem and decision he has to make (how to pay rent and put food on the table). He may have to stoop to jobs he doesn’t really want or that are outside his comfort zone. Or work more hours than he would like to during the semester later on. I think kids learn at least as much from having to support themselves post-undergrad as they do from any additional schooling they attend. </p>

<p>You may want to keep on eye on how he is handling things, and provide a hand if he gets truly desparate (eviction, literally can’t buy food, etc.). But I would let him handle it himself if it were my kid. He made a plan, and now has hit a bump. Let him figure it out – he will feel better about himself in the long run if he does.</p>

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<p>Inparent that is kind of what I have been thinking. </p>

<p>It seems that many of you favor some level of support and surprisingly no one has taken the really hard line that it is up to him to sink or swim and live with his choices however the chips fall. I’m thinking we will try and watch and intervene if he is in a serious situation. In the mean time we will provide support in small ways and hope he lands a job soon. He has been very frugal which is the reason he has funds to do what he is doing now. He has always been a hard worker and strong student. He has just not made the choices i would have made for him but it is his life and I respect that.</p>

<p>Colorado mom: Yes deferring a year would make sense, studying more to retake the LSAT and get a higher score and more$$$ would have also made sense. With undergrad you can steer your kids but at this level they make their own choices and I’m sure deferring isn’t going to happen. It might have happened if he had taken a more marketable major, but even graduating at the top of his class in his major still leaves him with little to go on with a BA in terms of employment. I’m expect that after all that work a base level job and not going to school would make him feel like a failure. In any case the idea was pitched but declined.</p>

<p>cbreeze: He has read all of the horror stories about law school graduates. He didn’t stumble on the choice of law. This has been his goal since high school. It also suits him very well. Hopefully an employer somewhere will see it that way. But yes the statistics are intimidating. He is aware of them and like every other kid who goes to law school he expects to be at the top of the class.</p>

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<p>Spectrum- if you can afford to help him, and if your help means he does not have to work a minimum wage type job for the first year of law school, then you should not hesitate to do that. GPA in the first year of law school will have more significant consequences than virtually any other semester of his entire education. Making Law Review could be the difference between being employed or unemployed after he graduates (no joke), especially if he’s not at a tippy top law school.</p>

<p>Unless he’s going to starve without a job first year, it will be worth your while (assuming YOU won’t be starving) to help him out for the first year. The grading curve can be very brutal; there are recent stories in the NY Times about law schools that give 20% of the class merit scholarships but you only keep the money for years two and three if you are in the top 10% of the class (which means that half the kids who get these scholarships are killing themselves to keep them- only to discover that there is just not enough money to go around for year 2).</p>

<p>So by all means- write that check if you can. The law student employment market has changed dramatically in the last few years.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much for making that point Blossom. I was really hoping that he would be able to get a job over the summer when he has no other pressures. But I appreciate your perspective. He has enough of his own money to get him through the summer even if he doesn’t work. He will however probably burn through most of his emergency savings to do that. Once school starts his loans will also kick in so he won’t be starving no matter what. I know he is tempted to try working when school starts and at that point he would be eligible for an on campus job. We talked to him about that 1L year and he is also aware that working might be difficult. You made an excellent, one that had not hit home with me until you wrote it. Thank you for posting.</p>

<p>At the admitted student’s day at the school the question was asked what percentage of students going in with scholarships do not retain them and the answer was that historically 100% have held onto their scholarships. There is a cutoff GPA but it is low. Of course, not that low if everyone in the curve has a scholarship. I’m hoping that they were honest in how they presented the information. I have also read about the employment market and I thing this is what made the decision to turn down T14 offers so heart wrenching. In the end it was his choice. I would be more relaxed right now if he had chosen differently but it is his life.</p>

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<p>Our son wants to be an attorney like his dad, so we’ve been researching the cost of law schools in our state. His undergrad school has a very good law school which may be a little more lenient re: admissions than it’s been in the past (since it was recently embarrassed by a scandal about how they’ve inflated their admissions & post-graduation employment statistics in the past); however, it’s also quite expensive (2-3 times the annual cost of our son’s undergrad education). He would prefer not attending law school in the largest city in our state (where most of the law school programs are concentrated, of course). Fortunately, there is one other law school program far downstate from us, which has the reputation of being one of the least expensive law schools in the country (not much more expensive per year than what we’ve been paying for his undergrad studies, and with merit-based aid available for high undergrad GPAs & high LSAT scores). It’s a “second-tier” school in the US News & World Report rankings, but is ABA-accredited - and the name recognition of the pricier law school of his undergrad alma mater isn’t necessary for the small-town law practice our son aspires to.
We will be helping him repay any student loans (especially since my spouse hopes our son will eventually take over his law practice), but we’re happy our son’s OK with a law school that’s not so pricey!</p>

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<p>Do some more research on these CC threads. In recent yea it seems that law grads, even from the top schools, have a hard time finding a good job.</p>

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<p>Cathy, has your son already applied and chosen the less-expensive option, or has he yet to complete the law school application cycle? There are many helpful posters in the CC Law School forum. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If your son hopes to take over his dad’s small-town practice, the lower-ranked, more affordable in-state option may serve him very well. I do recommend asking in the Law School forum - you’ll receive some well-thought-out responses from the lawyers and law students who post there.</p>

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<p>My dad paid for med school (a fairly long time ago) and I didn’t even blink an eye. I took out some loans for living expenses because it would have been impossible to work at the same time. My H’s parents also paid for med school (and all of his living expenses). Now that I’m a parent I can’t believe how lucky I was (we were) and I sure hope I was grateful and thanked my late father. I’m appalled if I was not. My brother paid for his own grad school (in a field much less lucrative than mine-- he got a BFA in painting). I’m now embarrassed for myself and think I should send my little brother a check. :)</p>

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<p>So much depends on family circumstances, as well as the student, retirement assets, available resources, etc. In our case, we plan to support and help our kids in whatever they choose and have encouraged them to pursue further education if they desire. Both are pretty done with being students for now after their bachelor’s. S has a very good job as a project manager; they will fund his further education to get a certificate or MBA as a project manager. If he wants to use his EE skills, he will have to take & pass an exam and other steps. He missed the deadline for the next test but may pursue this (is vague when we ask him). IF he decides he wants to go back to school (or go to grad/law or other school), he has saved up quite a bit over the 2 years he’s been working full-time.</p>

<p>D has just gotten her BA in cinema and none of us know of any significant advantage in getting further degrees in that field. She will be seeing what she can do once she finishes her resting and relaxing with us in a few more weeks. We all have agreed that we think our supporting her while she finds an internship/job/other opportunities are more valuable than anything else so she can get started in her field.</p>

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<p>jaylynn - Maybe you should buy one of your brother’s higher end paintings ;)</p>

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<p>I agree this is a family decision…and each family needs to decide what works for them.</p>

<p>We paid for four years of undergrad school. We helped with living expenses for DS for grad school, and will do the same with DD when the time comes. Tuition is something they have to pay for themselves.</p>

<p>We are also paying their undergrad Direct Loan payments which was our graduation gift to them.</p>

<p>We will help as we can, but paying for grad school tuition really is not what we will do.</p>

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<p>colorado_mom-- you’re right, esp since that MFA came in handy (!) and he works as a carpenter to feed his family, lol. I guess I just never thought of the fact that in my family a professional post grad degree was seen as more “important” than an artistic graduate degree. Shame on me.</p>

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<p>Actually, could you furnish your waiting room or office with his paintings you purchase? That would increase his income and exposure. :)</p>

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<p>My brother would be touched that you all are so nice. :slight_smile: He’s fine; making films now, too. I will pay it forward by helping his daughter with school, I can’t wait (I’m serious!).</p>

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<p>We did something similar. We discussed with our kids about our budget before they applied to college. Whatever they don’t use for undergraduate, they can use for graduate school, house down payment, etc. S1 chose in state public with multiple scholarships so he will have money left for graduate school if he decides to go. S2 is also choosing in state public so he will have a little left too just not too much.</p>

<p>We think if kids are working hard (school, job, or whatever else) and trying their best, we will help them if we can. The help can be in many different forms as some posters suggested. I like the large birthday money one.</p>

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<p>We told our kids that any post BA/BS education or degrees were ‘on them’. I agree it is a family by family decision.</p>

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<p>Well, all I can say is that I hope your son absolutely knows what he is doing and is not just counting on a positive outcome from his law education. He should also be prepared to deal with the negatives and the repercussions of not landing a job. Also, he must be realistic about accumulating debt that he may struggle to pay off. </p>

<p>Graduate/Professional school should never be an easy move. People need to consider realistic outcomes, projections, earnings, costs, and quality of life before, during, and after their graduate studies.</p>

<p>Another extremely important point to consider is the lost wages he will incur during the 3 years he will be in law school vs. what he could make working a job those 3 years. He must also consider the negative impact it will have on his retirement in the future. His younger years supply a significant portion of his retirement funds, and it is important to consider how long he wants to work for. Also, what kind of lifestyle does he want to live after law because he may land a job, however it may be a low paying one. </p>

<p>I come from the opposite side of the pond from the views being presented here. My father was pretty strict about being self-sufficient and doing for myself. </p>

<p>I will graduate from college this summer with a STEM degree and will be starting in a management position with one of the Big 5 oil companies this fall. I am graduating debt free and have roughly 20k to my name after working part time through college. My salary will be around ~90k not including all my benefits including a pension plan, 401k, stock options, paid food, air/land travel, and housing expenses. I worked hard and sometimes was on the brink of collapse, however according to my father it was quite worth it, and I completely agree with him. </p>

<p>In my case my father was more than willing to help, however there were certain guidelines to be followed. I come from a family that is well off financially. My father works in management for a private energy company, and makes a nice salary. He did help me in college but up to a certain point.</p>

<p>I was expected to do well enough in HS to get a scholarship that covered all my tuition and books. I did that and managed to go to one of my “Dream Schools” at the same time. He helped me with living/pleasure expenses. I also had to work during the summers since the age of 16, I was also expected to learn a trade (i.e. machinist) and be mechanically inclined. I did. </p>

<p>His view of this was that I would develop an appreciation for blue collars/operational workers and how they contribute to industry and the business world. I would also experience life in his shoes, and know what it is like to work a sweaty/overtime/physically taxing job at a young age. It taught me a lot of life skills and it put some “hair” on my chest so to speak. It also gave me a trade to fall back on in case I had to take a year off or build up some cash for further educational pursuits. This would pay off later.</p>

<p>He made it very clear to me that he was not going to pay for graduate school/professional school. He stated that was on me and it would in no way shape, or form make me successful. Now, he stated this knowing that at the time I wanted to be a Pharmacist. So, we took a 7 hour drive to the Pharmacy school I wanted to attend and he insisted on showing me what the reality of the situation was. His view this whole time was that I should get a business/engineering degree, get into the safety/energy industry, and excel from there. </p>

<p>We visited the pharmacy school and I sat down with the professors and students. I listened and discussed realistically what my salary expectations were, how the outlook for the pharmacy grads was being projected, what employment options were available and what the lifestyle of the pharmacy students was. They took me into the labs, into the lecture rooms, and study areas. I saw the stacks of research sheets from them trying to formulate chemical compounds. They showed me how they use a type of Socratic Method in training pharmacy students where the professor essentially questions you about treating patients with certain medication until you stumble, and he/she corrects or a computer does. I also discussed with the students the stress levels and financial issues they were having. The vast majority of them were struggling, living on student loans, or their parents had cut them off due to the vast amount of money they paid for their undergrad work. One guy I talked to told me his parents wanted him to work during the program but he essentially told them it would be impossible with the workload. From what I seen he was right.</p>

<p><strong><em>Your son should avoid working in a professional program at all costs if he can. His grades will be essential to his future success. Especially law school as tough as it is right now with all the graduates flooding the market.</em></strong></p>

<p>My father sat back and watched all of this. We then spoke with the head of the pharmacy college and my father asked him questions. He (the professor) basically told me I better know what I was getting myself into and that many of the pre pharmacy students decide not to go on to pharmacy school after being involved and seeing what goes on. I changed my mind pretty quick, and realized as a junior in HS this was not what I wanted to do.</p>

<p>I decided to take my father’s advice and enrolled in a STEM program at the school of my choice. After 3 years and $30k of his input plus around $15K of mine for living expenses, vehicle, gas, insurance, and after I had lost one of my scholarships my sophomore year due to the toughness of the engineering curriculum, aiding with the care of a family member with cancer, and suffering from homesickness and depression he told me something had to give. I also had $10k in student loans. I had $6k dollars left in my savings. I had to drop a course in order to keep my GPA up for the scholarship; however it didn’t work out anyway. This would put me graduating with an extra semester with no financial aid because of the way the courses are offered.</p>

<p>He told me he would no longer fund my education. He said I should do it differently and that building up student debt was unwise especially when there isn’t a guarantee of a job and the economy wasn’t so hot during that time either. He said to sit out a year and work full time to pay off my loans. Utilizing the trade I learned earlier, pay off my debt, and store up some cash. Of course I could live at the house for free but I was expected to do well. I ended up paying off my loans, paying off my car, and stacking up some cash to pay for my tuition for 3 semesters with $20k left over. This luckily worked out.</p>

<p>I’m now pretty set for success. I thank God and my father for the wisdom of this. My mother was sometimes concerned however my father stated that it would make me into a man, and it did.</p>

<p>I now know the value of money, the value of hard work, the value of failure, the value of picking yourself up from failure, and the value of education. I feel that it all made me a better person and I’m also doing better than a lot of the other individuals I graduated HS with who had everything provided for them. I feel we focus too much on mental education and not enough on emotional and life skills education. For example, these stories you see on the news of people spending 100k plus on undergrad to get a degree in art or philosophy complaining about the lack of job prospects is absurd. That makes no sense, your career goals need to line up with the economy, market, and employer’s needs.
Never underestimate the power of steering your kids in the right direction. Just because they want to make their own decisions doesn’t mean it is the right decision. A teenager’s/20 something brain still needs a lot of development and sometimes stupid decisions abound.
I think the value of working a job you don’t want to work, or taking a year off from school to refocus yourself can work wonders. This will build your character and your overall outlook on life.<br>
That is my two cents anyway. Not to mention, paying off a car and education loans can work wonders for your credit score.</p>

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<p>As a student, I’m very grateful to have a mother that is willing to sacrifice her own life and quality of living to pay as much as she can towards my (and my sisters’) schooling. If I decide grad or professional school, I’m not expecting her to pay because that just isn’t fair to her.</p>

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<p>Double check the residency requirements. D. applied for in-state status at her graduate school which has very specific rules on parental assistance as well as location of any savings (i.e. make sure all accounts are in the new state). There may be limits on any amount you can apply toward their expenses in order to qualify for in-state status.</p>