Parents, am I crazy for turning down money from Rice for none from Stanford?

Parents Forum
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<p>BTW Avalon, you are not "crazy" whatever you do--unless you blindly follow the advice of any strangers on this board! We all have our own personal biases for or against these schools and none of us know you, or the details of your parents' finances. But I do think that you should follow your heart in these circumstances, as well as your rational analysis. </p>

<p>A couple of years ago a terrific young man named "Evil_Robot" came here with a similar dilemma, having been accepted at Yale and Vanderbilt. The difference for him was that money really was an issue and he would have had to go into debt to go to Yale. He chose Vandy, and posted a fair amount last year about how happy he was there. In some sense, you are probably like him in that you will probably be able to have an outstanding time at either school. The difference though is the lack of financial constraint for you. I searched for his original posts on the subject and couldn't get that far back in time. However, you can search and find his posts about how happy he was with his decision after the fact. Don't know if that will help, but it is just a somewhat similar situation. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>My son is faced with a similar situation. He has been accepted with significant dollors at a school which he would be glad to attend. However, he has also been accepted at his first choice school. Although he hasn't received a financial package from them yet, he's expecting $0. In his case, the school offering him the large scholarship is much closer to home. </p>

<p>My husband and I have told my son the choice is his to make and we mean it. My husband is retired so we have a very tiny income, but we've saved enough to pay the bill wherever my son chooses to go. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest your parents, like us, mean exactly what they say. Choose the school you like best.</p>

<p>Students, I wouldn't necessarily give the same advice to everyone. If parents say finances are a concern or if you know your parents will sacrifice considerably to send you to a specific college, you should think seriously about money. However, I sense that the OP's parents truly want their child to go wherever she likes and can afford to pay the bill.</p>

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<p>Rice:</p>

<p>1) Bio at both schools are top-notch, and for most undergrads doesn't matter that much.
2) Houston is a wonderful town, and school is not in session during the summer. Nevertheless, I spent a full spring-summer-fall cycle in Houston on biz, and enjoyed my time (and humidity) immensely.
3) Parchment paper from med school means much more in the medical school world, than it does from undergrad.
4) Going to Stanford is like going to your local [Junior] college (play on its official name) -- going to Rice is really "going away" to school.
5) Residential college system.
6) Keep the money and buy a Prius, or Beemer, or whatever.</p>

<p>OTOH: Stanford is known for grade-inflation (dunno about Rice). Since gpa is #1 criteria for med school.....</p>

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<p>Hi Avalon,</p>

<p>This thread really resonated with me. Two years ago, I was trying to decide between applying to Stanford EA and Rice ED. I went through a lot of the same issues that I'm sure you are considering. In the end, I applied ED to Rice, and was, like you, named a century scholar and trustees distinguished scholar; as well as accepted in the Rice Baylor BA/MD program.</p>

<p>Like you, I was considering med school (obviously) and as an Intel semifinalist, I wanted to make sure the research opportunities were strong. I also wondered a lot about the money - even before I heard about the scholarships I knew that Rice would be the far cheaper option. I'm not trying to make it out like we are the same in every way; I know that isn't at all true. However, I was hoping that if you wouldn't mind (and I suppose, even if you would mind) I could share some of my reasoning with you, and also some of what I have discovered since I arrived.</p>

<p>Originally, I had approached searching for a college as a consumer. I was looking for value, as well as excellence. In Rice, I felt that I had really found value. Here, the classes are generally very small, almost always taught by full professors, and professors are so so so accessible. I cannot emphasize that enough to you. Professors here eat in the residential colleges, sometimes LIVE in the residential colleges, have offices hours several times per week, take students into their labs ALL THE TIME, respond promptly (like within an hour or two) to e-mails, are always willing to advise you, etc. At the same time as I am getting all of this personal attention, I have all the resources of a bigger school at my disposal. </p>

<p>We have 10 plays going on on campus each semester for example. Rice fields 530 intramural sports teams per year (yes, that was 530). We are in a great city (I'm from NY, so I feel qualified to judge), with over 11,000 restaurants, as well as sports teams, theater, ballet, opera, museums, nightlife, symphony, etc. And as Rice students, we get free or discounted admission to most of these things, as well as free public transportation all over the city. Rice has tons of student groups to join, and the really nice thing about all of them is that you don't need any special talent or experience to join. For example, if you know nothing about Indian culture, but would like to learn, join the South Asian Students association, and perform traditional indian dances in their shows. I played soccer in 7th grade, and my team lost all of our games, but this year I joined the intramural soccer team, and had a great time (we even won once - and I scored a goal!). Rice is like that, really welcoming to everyone, regardless of background or experience.</p>

<p>When I was named a century scholar, I wasn't sure what to expect. I assumed I would do some sort of bio related research, as that was what I did in high school. When I recieved the list of potential mentors (which was extensive - and we were also invited to contact any professor at Rice not on the list and ask if they were willing to mentor us - which several people did with no trouble), one of the projects really jumped out at me. It was broad - what are the implications of gender on health? and sponsored by the Sociology department. I enrolled at Rice convinced that I would do bio research in a lab, while majoring in cognitive science. However, taking a class in gender and health really changed that for me. I was the only freshman in the class, but it was taught by my century scholars mentor, and it was fantastic. I was challenged to really think about issues I had never considered before, and debate them with students older and more experienced than I was. After that, I decided to be a sociology major and haven't looked back. It has been just great. I think that something really good about the century scholars program, and about Rice in general, is that everyone is always helping you to expand your horizons. Since I've been at Rice, for example, I've taken classes in 13 different departments. Next fall I'm spending the semester in Australia, and I've already studied abroad in England and Scotland. And I have made great friends, both students and faculty (sounds cliched, but I'm serious). So maybe right now you think you would do your Century Scholars project in immunology. And maybe you will. But if you haven't already checked out the century scholars website, I urge you to do so. (<a href="http://www.ruf.rice.edu/%7Ecentscho/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~centscho/&lt;/a&gt;) Check out the proposals, in particular. Maybe you'll get here and discover that the history of Australian languages is really your thing.</p>

<p>Also, I don't know if you have applied to the Rice/Baylor program, but since you are a prospective pre-med, I hope that you have. It's an excellent program in every way - I believe it's actually the best combined BA/MD anywhere (though others may disagree). First of all, both Rice and Baylor are really top notch schools, and the program is non-binding, with no MCAT requirement, reasonable GPA requirements, etc. Plus, students in the program are treated really well by BCM, even as undergrads. You want to shadow a doctor, but don't want to cold call or e-mail? No problem, Baylor will set it up. You want to do research in the med center, but you are still in your first semester at Rice (maybe your first week!) and don't know who to ask (well, that's silly, because you will have a ton of people around to ask, but whatever), no problem, just call Baylor and they will help you out. Finally, the 110,000 you saved by going to Rice will pay for your entire med school education at Baylor. No joke. The whole entire thing.</p>

<p>I don't know if any of this is even mildly helpful, but what I can tell you is that my sister asked me a few months ago if I thought I had made the right decisions in my college search process. I told her that there were a few things I might have done differently, but that overall, the outcome could not have been any better. Period.</p>

<p>I would encourage you to give Rice a fair chance. Come out and visit, if you can, either during owl weekend, or another time. I will personally host you if you'd like. (I'd love to!)</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision. No matter what you choose, I bet you will be happy with it in the end.</p>

<p>-Jenn</p>

25

<p>Jenn, from a parent:</p>

<p>What a wonderfully helpful post! This is the kind of insider's information students should be so lucky to read as they contemplate their choices. Well done!</p>

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<p>Perhaps the perspective of a parent who's paying full freight (mostly gladly) whose S had a choice similar to yours might help...my S could have gone into highly-respected honors programs (Echols, and College Science Scholars) at U VA, and because I had purchased a prepaid tuition program for him, the cost would have been only his room and board. Or, he could have gone to one of three other selective privates.</p>

<p>All I wanted from him was that he consider for himself whether his first choice school offered him enough more--whether tangible or intangible--to make the cost differential worthwhile. I offered to give him the difference for a home downpayment, or for a car, or whatever "big ticket" item he might want--(I "guaranteed" him $165,000 for school--essentially the cost of 4 years of undergrad at a selective private, or U VA plus a very big "guaranteed start" toward grad/post-grad--and I also told him I am willing if finances allow to pay more for grad/post-grad)...he flat-out refused to take the difference...says it's my money, not his; he's grateful that I'm willing to pay for his schooling, but will not take any "extra" money from me...</p>

<p>He thought hard about it. Consulted w/his deeply-respected GC. Put off a decision til the last week before "due date." But ultimately chose his Ivy.</p>

<p>As the person who pays the bills: I"m totally fine--in fact, thrilled--w/his decision. He's really thriving at his school. And it's my profound pleasure and pride to be able to give it to him. THere's NOTHING I'd rather spend the money (which I'd saved during his childhood) on...</p>

<p>So...my point? Believe your parents when they say you can choose based on what YOU want w/out worrying about the money. If they're anything like me, they mean that down to their toetips. </p>

<p>Many previous posters have pointed out solid points to consider about comfort zone and things the two schools each offer. But if you still think of Stanford as your first choice and remain concerned only about the money--go to Stanford! If I were your parent (and as the parent of an S who faced a similar choice), I'd really really REALLY want you to choose the school you want most...for us (and it sounds like for your parents), it's NOT about the money!</p>

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<p>I don't know enough about these schools to help specifically, but I must comment on all the negative character discussion connected to going to a closer school. Comments about " are you ready to go away" or saying it's like going to your local community college if you go to Stanford are beyond silly. There is an infinite difference between attending a major world-class university and going up the road to the nearest state school where half your HS class might be. </p>

<p>We live 20 miles from NYC, and S goes to school there, but we don't see him except for the same breaks anyone else might come home for. His life is in NYC, and he is loving it. So, look at all the factors suggested here, but don't let others turn it into a character assessment (judgment) about who you are or "what you're ready for."</p>

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<p>I think all the questions being suggested are important. But, let's be honest, Stanford has been your dream school, you live in the aura area, if there were a downside you would know it by now, right?</p>

<p>Here is the question you have to ask yourself...what(if anything) would/could you see at Rice that would make you change your mind? The last thing you want is to hit a glitch (which you might/will) in November of next year and say to yourself- I blew it, I should have gone to STanford. The only way that might not happen is if you figure out the answer to the question, and then see it if/when you visit Rice.</p>

<p>Now, can I just add a slightly dissenting voice to the chorus of 'we saved the money and we want you to spend it on what you really want' voices. Medical school set me back $100,000+ after I decided I didn't want the PhD after all... and while I have no regrets about the money I am paying for my sons to go to their chosen schools-- had they had a choice as attractive as the one you are making, and had they thought they might choose medical school, I would have strongly urged them to go for the money(we are paying for undergrad, but will loan them the money for grad school as needed). They each had merit options, one quite large at the honors program of his safety. Neither had merit options at schools so comparable in caliber as Rice and Stanford, however. In short, at least some of us who have been fortunate to save enough to pay for a big ticket school still think $100,000 is a pile of money to walk away from!!!</p>

<p>BTW, no character dismissal intended in the my first posting on this thread, just a comment on the case you made for Stanford, much of which was based on its familiarity to you. Honestly, I think that is a fine reason to choose a school, just as wanting to move outside one's comfort zone is another fine reason. Different strokes, different folks. Just another aspect of what you have to know about yourself at this point, IMHO. </p>

<p>Anyways, congratulations on having such fine choices...I am sure that ultimately you will make a choice that will be the best one for you, and really that is all that matters..</p>

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<p>It isn't about money. But it CAN BE about what money can buy. $110,000 can buy an enormous amount in the way of purely educational opportunities. So I think a fair way to evaluate it is to consider Stanford vs. Rice + $110,000 worth of educational opportunities - imagine what those would be, what they would cost, and imagine that they might change. And then put it on paper: if you choose Stanford (as well you may), be clear about what that $110,000 is purchasing.</p>

<p>Don't choose Rice if you don't like it. You are blessed with wonderful choices.</p>

30

<p>Very good advice from everyone, especially the questions to consider as you evaluate both schools. And thanks for offering an insider's perspective, jenskate1! </p>

<p>In terms of the money issue, I need to question one assumption that many are making here, specifically that the $110K "saved" by choosing Rice would be cash that would be available to you now or in the future. With a younger sibling entering the college market in a few years (albeit not likely looking to pay similar pricetags), and with some hints dropped here that your parents would be foregoing contributions to retirement savings to fund tuition, it might be important to have a conversation with your parents about whether any of that unspent dollar difference would, in fact, be available several years down the road for you to use for grad/med school expenses (or in the meantime). Just assuming that it is and factoring that into your decision table might prove costly: be sure of what's possible and what's not before you count on it.</p>

<p>Some families who are able to cover expenses have $X set aside for "educational purposes", some have $X set aside for undergrad expenses only, and some are willing to find the $ needed to cover some set of these expenses. Determine your family's specific approach to these funding issues, while you explore the answers to the questions you have about the two schools. </p>

<p>You're unlikely to go wrong with either choice: congratulations!</p>

31

<p>
[quote]
Just assuming that it is and factoring that into your decision table might prove costly: be sure of what's possible and what's not before you count on it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This makes me uncomfortable. If the unspent dollars will be needed to fund the younger sibling's education, then that, to me, would suggest the wisdom of going where the money is unless the two schools are so unequal in quality (and not just in terms of academics). Otherwise, the parents would have to scrimp for the younger sibling, and perhaps not be able to provide the same opportunities as to the OP.</p>

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<p>Jenn, I too loved your post. If I had any talent in science AND were 35 years younger, I'd want to go to Rice too based on your post! This is such a helpful thread now. </p>

<p>In a way, it is tempting to say you couldn't go wrong with either choice. That is true in an objective sense, I think, but I don't know whether it is true in a subjective sense....because if one school really is your dream school, and you'd be forcing yourself to go to one where your heart really wasn't in it, I don't really think it is such a great idea.</p>

<p>I also agree with garland about this issue of going close to home when your "close to home" school happens to be HYPSM. It is absolutely different from choosing a safe second-rate school. I think that if you haven't walked in those shoes, you have to really be careful about concluding that it is a negative. For our family, it has been an absolutely HUGE positive for every family member. The other thing to remember is that with these schools, the chance that you'll be spending a fair amount of time away from campus is quite high: years abroad, summers away at internships, etc. Son will spend both summers on the East Coast, for instance, and is hoping to attend the Beijing campus; is already planning on graduate school on the East Coast. If you go away for the sake of going away and you don't really want to, there is always a chance you'll hightail it back home and NOT be ready to experiment elsewhere after your 4 years away.</p>

<p>I also agree that the number of siblings you have, and the cushion your parents do or don't have, may be an issue. For instance, as an attorney, the $2K per month difference for me, after taxes, would be working an extra 7 billable hours a month--which I could do by adding a half hour or so about 15 days per month to my current part-time schedule (no, the math doesn't quite add up but not every minute is billable :). Would I do that so that my child could go to his or her dream school rather than settling for second choice? Of course, in a heartbeat! But if the difference means taking an extra job, or dipping into necessary retirement funds, then it becomes a bigger issue for them.</p>

<p>But just to give you the other side of the coin, as a parent, please don't worry too much about them. I really mean it when I say that there is little in this world that matters as much as seeing your child happy. Certainly not extra money in the bank.</p>

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<p>I am in the same situation as you are in now, this thread is amazing...jenn thanks for the post it was reallllly helpful!</p>

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<p>When I went to a university that was 40 minutes away from home, it seemed far away, because I was involved in the college world. Yet I could go home easily for vacations, which was good. </p>

<p>If Stanford is your dream and you are accepted there, and your parents are fine with the price tag, then I really don't see the dilemma.</p>

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<p>Jen, that post should be in a thread of it's own. Well done.</p>

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<p>On the subject of adoption, I'd put my hand up for jen or avalon. (Guessing that avalon is a girl). </p>

<p>On the subject of being adopted for no-worry tuition choices, something tells me avalon will repay that favor with something similar for her children.</p>

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<p>Jen
what a glowing advertisement for Rice and the Scholars program! I hope the OP takes you up on your hosting offer..you seem like the perfect person for her to meet!</p>

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<p>Wow! I didn't think I'd get such a big response! Here are some comments -- no official decisions yet. I know someone who just finished at Rice as a pre-med, so I'll talk to her, and I may also contact my Rice interviewer, as he offered to answer my questions. To give Stanford a fair chance, I plan to talk to a couple pre-meds there that I know.</p>

<p>Just to give you a better picture of who I am as a person, I've been homeschooled since kindergarten, though I've attended a community college for math and science through high school. So my background certainly factors into my parents' and my decision about where I attend college. Though my parents aren't averse to Rice. They do, however, like the the idea of having me at least "mentally" nearby.</p>

<p>In response to the posts: Jenn, I LOVED your description of Rice -- sadly, I didn't apply to the Medical Scholars Program. I considered it, but I ultimately concluded that it wasn't a determining issue for my college choice. I'll let you know if I plan on visiting Rice anytime soon -- I would love to take you up on your offer.</p>

<p>Patient -- yes, I've made a table similar to yours. Actually, when I received my Rice acceptance packet and saw all the money they were offering, I immediately turned the envelope over and began doing a Rice/Stanford comparison on the back with a Sharpie!</p>

<p>
[quote]
...[Rice is] offering you a chance to get out of your comfort zone- only you can decide if that is important to you or not. Only you can decide if you are ready for it or not!

[/quote]

[quote]
Going to Stanford is like going to your local [Junior] college (play on its official name) -- going to Rice is really "going away" to school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nice play on words, bluebayou! I agree that college must be a growing experience. At the beginning of high school and up to a year ago, I was strongly considering some very small, rather nearby LAC's, precisely so I COULD remain within my comfort zone. Between working full-time this past summer and just growing up in general, I think I've grown out of what was in fact a real need for a small-school environment. That need, though, has been served quite nicely through my community college, and I'm ready to move on (which doesn't exclude Stanford or Rice). However...</p>

<p>
[quote]
...the chance that you'll be spending a fair amount of time away from campus is quite high: years abroad, summers away at internships, etc.

[/quote]

[quote]
So whether you leave your comfort zone now or later, you will almost certainly have that experience at some time in your life.

[/quote]

Good point. Stanford is not necessarily synonymous with "comfort zone" or even complacency. Both schools will offer so much in the way of new experiences, and I don't foresee being at home much, even during summers. In fact, I have the opportunity to do a summer research internship in Switzerland at some point! I'd also like to study in St. Petersburg or Moscow.</p>

<p>I appreciated these comments:

[quote]
If you choose Stanford, make a committment to pretend it's far away from your home. It can be "a million miles" away if you and your family agree that you should have the full college experience and have your space.

[/quote]

[quote]
There is an infinite difference between attending a major world-class university and going up the road to the nearest state school where half your HS class might be.

[/quote]

[quote]
I also agree with garland about this issue of going close to home when your "close to home" school happens to be HYPSM. It is absolutely different from choosing a safe second-rate school.

[/quote]

Exactly. Notice that I'm not asking "SJSU or Rice?" (nothing against the CSU system) I'm incredibly blessed to live so close to and have been accepted by an Ivy-caliber university. If I attend Stanford, I'll definitely live on campus all four years and aim to make my experience like a "far away" college kid's experience. I do have the option, though, of coming home for my brother's birthday! Or what if I get homesick? (I'll still be 17 when I begin college.) It would be nice to know I could come home for an afternoon if I wanted.</p>

<p>This may be a non-issue, based on the proximity of both institutions to world-class medical centers, but I have a couple of quirky health issues..nothing major, but I may have to get back surgery in a few years, and I really like my local orthopedic surgeon! Just a thought...</p>

<p>As for financial implications...

[quote]
It's not Rice vs. Stanford. It's Rice + $110,000 vs. Stanford. Think of what you would buy - educationally speaking - for $110,000 in addition to a Rice education.

[/quote]

[quote]
Would you consider Rice for undergraduate studies and possibly utilize the $100k savings for graduate studies at Stanford or elsewhere?

[/quote]

I'm not sure if I would ever see the $100k (I know my parents would never give me ALL that money!), but I need to sit down and discuss this with my parents. All things equal, I can't say that I want to do grad/med school at Stanford (don't know if I'd even get in). That said, I would like to end up at Stanford at some point on my training/career, so we'll see.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Students, I wouldn't necessarily give the same advice to everyone. If parents say finances are a concern or if you know your parents will sacrifice considerably to send you to a specific college, you should think seriously about money. However, I sense that the OP's parents truly want their child to go wherever she likes and can afford to pay the bill.

[/quote]

[quote]
All I wanted from him was that he consider for himself whether his first choice school offered him enough more--whether tangible or intangible--to make the cost differential worthwhile.

[/quote]

Given my parents' financial situation, your experience sounds very similar to ours. And to EllenF, thanks for pointing out the differences between families' finances.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Have you tried negotiating with the FAO at Stanford yet?

[/quote]

Not yet, but I will!</p>

<p>Ultimately, I think I could/would receive equivalent educations at either school. Even beyond the money, location is a key issue. Clearly Rice is working out wonderfully for Jenn, but both Stanford and Rice are far away from NY, so I guess I shouldn't compare myself TOO much to her (no offense, Jenn!). If Rice was in CA, though.... There's also the fact that Stanford's been my dream school for so long.</p>

<p>
[quote]
...Stanford has been your dream school, you live in the aura area, if there were a downside you would know it by now, right? Here is the question you have to ask yourself...what(if anything) would/could you see at Rice that would make you change your mind?

[/quote]

One wise parent PMed me this (you know who you are -- I hope it's ok with you that I stuck this up here):

[quote]
Rice is a great place, but Rice is no dream or new dream for you. So, basically, you would be giving up your dream, compromising if you will, for $110 thousand. A compromise not so much in an academic sense, you'd get a good education at Rice, and I'm quite sure you'd get involved in good research there as well--though perhaps not so fitting as what you'll have at Stanford. But nevertheless a step down, a compromise from what you have always dreamed. You, personally, have excellent reasons to go to Stanford. You may always wonder what it would have been like at Stanford. And going to grad school at Stanford won't change that--grad school is not undergrad.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I still have until May 1st to make my final decison, and I will certainly let all of you know what it is.</p>

<p>
[quote]
There are probably many CCers who wish your parents would adopt them!

[/quote]

[quote]
You've got a high class problem. Too many wonderful choices!

[/quote]

Yes, I am so blessed to be in this situation. Really counting my blessings.</p>

<p>And one last post that made me smile:

[quote]
On the subject of adoption, I'd put my hand up for jen or avalon. (Guessing that avalon is a girl).
On the subject of being adopted for no-worry tuition choices, something tells me avalon will repay that favor with something similar for her children.

[/quote]

Thanks!</p>

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<p>Visit, let it settle in, choose. I am sure your parents mean it when they say they can pay. They may have saved just to be able to offer you this choice. So make the choice according to what hits home with you. Then you will not second guess yourself. Which would really bug your parents more than anything I bet.</p>

40

<p>
[quote]
I'll let you know if I plan on visiting Rice anytime soon

[/quote]
Avalon, Surely you are planning to attend Owl Weekend????? How can you make a decision without visiting Rice and meeting the people that you would be attending school with, (if you were to choose Rice)????</p>