Parents, am I crazy for turning down money from Rice for none from Stanford?

Parents Forum
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<p>If you're considering MD/PhD programs, I think it's entirely fair to choose Stanford based on the assurance of finding a research job. I just went through the whole biology PhD interview process, and the single best thing you can do for yourself toward getting into biology grad school is to get a research job early in your undergraduate years.</p>

<p>It's also a pretty significant boost in grad school applications to have recommendations from big names in your field; Stanford, as one of the top four or five biology schools in the country (/world), has plenty of big names who would look great signing grad school and med school recommendation forms (or after yours on that Nature paper you could co-author as an undergrad). There are great biology faculty members at Rice, no doubt, but there are more at Stanford.</p>

<p>As I understand it, there's more grade inflation at Stanford than at Rice. Grade inflation is a premed's best friend.</p>

<p>Also, as far as "saving" the $110k for graduate school -- PhD programs, and many MD/PhD programs as well, are actually free + stipend. I'm getting paid $28k next year to go to grad school. Your federal tax dollars at work! ;) So if you want to save the $110k, save the money, but don't worry about having cash for grad studies.</p>

<p>Ultimately, I think you should choose based on your fit with each school, but these are some points to consider in your decision.</p>

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<p>There is no grade inflation at Rice, at least not in the science or engineering departments. A friend's child is currently a sophomore there and has gotten some B's, the first in her life. When I attended, the tests in the sciences were always very difficult and the grades were always on a curve. The mean was a B so you had to have a very high grade to get an A. Everyone studied several hours for tests so it took a lot of effort to hit the mean. It was much easier to have a high grade point with a major in the humanities. That being said, Rice is a wonderful school and the medical schools in Houston used to allow for lower grades from Rice students. They knew that anywhere else, that B would have been an A.</p>

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<p>"Even beyond the money, location is a key issue."</p>

<p>Avalon,
I have lived in California, Colorado, Virginia, Missouri, Saudi Arabia, and (currently) Houston, Texas... (I'm almost 17 yrs old... I know this is a parents forum, sorry!)... and I really like Houston!! First, there are SO many stereotypes and preconceived notions about Texas, and specifically Houston... I can tell you that I have found that many of them are untrue!</p>

<p>I never thought I would like Houston, and looking back, I'm not really sure why. I guess I heard/saw so many people who were like "Eww. Houston. <em>insert weird face here</em>" Sure, the weather is unpredictable and humid (it sure ain't California), and their are plenty of "nicer" looking cities, but Houston has a lot to offer (including the NL Champion HOUSTON ASTROS!!). And the people sure are nice, even if they "talk funny". </p>

<p>Definitely visit, and ask some Rice students what they think of the Houston. PM me if you have any questions.</p>

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<p>Rice is certainly an excellent school, and you may get a more rewarding undergraduate education than you might at Stanford. As an East Coaster with family ties to the Bay area, however, I know that the South is very different from what you might be used to. It is more conservative, more religious, more pro-Bush. I know one Bay area girl that transferred out of Vanderbilt because she could not feel comfortable with the pervasive feeling that girls had to get up an hour early to roll their hair before class and everyone's bag had to match her outfit. This is anecdotal, but the campus culture should be a consideration, and maybe you should spend some time on the Rice campus before making a decision. The other point I want to make is that if you ever want to make some serious money and join a bio-tech venture capital firm, a Stanford alumni network is invaluable.</p>

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<p>A few things:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Cheers, you'll take me? Because as much as I like Rice, Paradise sounds pretty good right about now.</p></li>
<li><p>Avalon, just let me know if you plan to come out. Yes, Rice and Stanford were both very far away for me, so like I said, it's not 100% the same situation. Also, don't worry too much about your orthopedic surgeon. In a few years, if you need surgery, you'd probably want to recuperate at home anyway, so you can go back to CA and do it in the summer or when ever. And for follow-up care, the medical center (with it's 13 hospitals and 2 med schools) probably has someone you'd like.</p></li>
<li><p>


Rice is NOT Vanderbilt, and Houston is not "The South." I doubt if there is a single girl here who has ever rolled her hair. If I wear a skirt to class, people ask me what I'm so dressed up for. Really, the Rice style is whatever item on my floor is cleanest, plus flip flops. Now, Houston may be more conservative than the Bay area, and Rice may be more conservative than Stanford, but it's by no means an extreme place. Here, the dialogue is balanced, rather than overwhelmingly liberal. Personally, I find this a great strength of Rice. I would not love to go to a school where I could say "I think Bush is a moron" or "Pro-lifers are ridiculous" and everyone would nod and say "yes, we agree." I think you learn much more about yourself, and the world around you when people challenge you to think about why you believe what you do. So it's fine at Rice that I'm a pretty non-religious Jewish democrat female from NY. And it's also fine that one of my best friends is a religious, conservative, Southern Baptist guy from rural TX. We learn from each other, and have fun!</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I don't know that this makes any difference in Avalon's decision, but I felt the need to set the record straight!</p>

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<p>Damaris' post = the preconceived notions that I'm talking about!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
So it's fine at Rice that I'm a pretty non-religious Jewish democrat female from NY.

[/quote]

Jenn~</p>

<p>Excellent post, excellent points all. I fit the description above, except that I was born in Houston (Westheimer Rd. was named for my great-grandfather Westheimer and was, back in the day, an old dirt road that lead out to the family's farm!) and raised in Austin from the age of 3. My children and I have suffered FAR MORE anti-Semitic behavior/attitudes here in Kansas than I ever experienced growing up in Texas. Absolutely no comparison. And like you, I have friends of ALL denominations, political views, etc. One DOES grow and learn from these differences if the differences are handled respectfully. </p>

<p>Your contributions to this thread have been invaluable, and I so hope the OP gives them the consideration they deserve.</p>

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<p>Avalon: Congrats on being wanted by two of our nation's finest univeristies! Have you tried delicately talking to your Stanford adcom about your Rice offer if you truly prefer to remain in California near your family and near their fab research offerings? Sounds like your "heart" is in California. If you sincerely feel that way, and are not "gaming" them..who knows..they might reconsider when another admitted student declines them and some merit money and offer you something. Since you have done research there, the Stanford people know you and may believe you really would come with a little more incentive.
Personally, I vote for Rice if Stanford offers no merit money at all even though your parents have offered to underwrite Stanford for you. But only if you are happy there after getting on an airplane and staying overnight and hanging out on Accepted Students days...
Our S decided on his college April 29th. He went to three accepted student days. Why? He truly loved and respected all the schools that admitted him and expected more waitlists than he got. He attached to his match colleges, and had mixed feelings about school size and locations. No school has it all. And when applying to selective schools, you don't know your options till now.<br>
Give yourself the full month to think. Find a local Rice alum and go to lunch with them. Ask Rice to have an alum or current California student there contact you by phone. My S received many kind calls from grads and current students that swayed and influenced him.
You can't make a bad decision here. I am sure if you go to Stanford, even with the expense, you will make your parents proud and earn a good living some day on your own.<br>
A Rice honors degree however, will get you into any great grad school you target in the USA with the money to fund your masters/doctorate still available to you.<br>
Be happy! Be positive and share some love with both schools while thinking about this.<br>
When you join your class next fall in Houston or California, all will be grand.</p>

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<p>Go to Rice and pocket the $110,000. This is a no brainer. It is not like it is between Stanford and a tier 2 or 3 school. Rice is in the top 20.</p>

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<p>"Go to Rice and pocket the $110,000. This is a no brainer. It is not like it is between Stanford and a tier 2 or 3 school. Rice is in the top 20."</p>

<p>Abso-freakin-lutely. Objectively, Stanford is not that much better. However, if you treat the "Stanford" experience as a good (and value it at $110,000), then you should by all means go. Otherwise, it sounds like Rice is clear choice.</p>

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<p>I've not read every post in their entirety on this thread, but it is clear that the preponderance of the encouragement is to go to Rice. Let me start by saying I am biased (my s. is a soph. at Rice). I am wondering what it is about Stanford (besides the name/reputation and the location close to home) that has made it your "dream" school. I would encourage you to think about this carefully, and to see if Rice has any/many of the qualities that has made Stanford so appealing. Yes, Stanford has a more familiar "name" to the general populus, but Rice has been a phenomenal experience for my s., and is plenty well known amongst grad and medical schools. He is a Mech E. major, and was double majoring in Physics as well. That's a lot to bite off when he was also running his residential college's Beer Bike activities, active in the Engineers Without Borders program, the young Democrats, etc etc. He spoke to one of his physics professors when he was juggling all this. The professor said that the physics dept at Rice is about the most rigorous and demanding undergrad program (and he was comparing it to the phsyics dept at Cal Tech, MIT, Stanford, and others). Do not for a minute think that Rice is easier than Stanford. That simply isn't true.</p>

<p>My s. had always thought that MIT was his "dream" school. When we visited, he left feeling that it was far better for grad than undergrad, and he didn't even apply. Again, I encourage you to carefully examine what it is about Stanford that makes it your "dream" school. When you spend time on campus, does it meet with all these preconceived expectations?</p>

<p>I would not worry about being homesick. Rice has a PHENOMENAL orientation week that helps the freshmen adjust, and they do an excellent job of matching roommates. There are RA's who live in the dorm, and the College Masters (faculty members and their families who live in a house next to the residential college you live in)are like built-in parents. They are there for whatever you need. They routinely have study breaks (aka free food!), bring food and drink to the intramural sports activities, etc. The residental college systems is wonderfully supportive and nurturing. You will not feel homesick. You will simply too busy finding fun things to do to be homesick. And, if need be, you can always hop a plane from one of Houston's 2 airports to make a quick visit home.</p>

<p>Lastly, Rice has an incredible working relationship with the mega-medical community across the street. You will not have to make "cold calls" to find research opportunities. These relationships are well established, and the career center helps with this as well. My s. had several incredible offers for summer internships (from both big international companies, and small research and development shops). He accepted one (one of the big international companies) that will offer an incredible research opportunity and will pay him lots of money! By the way, did you get your research job at Stanford because someone knew someone, or did you make a "cold call"? Many of these opportunities are accessed by people knowing people. It will be no different at Rice. </p>

<p>While yes, having Stanford on your resume will follow you forever, it will ultimately be your medical school experience that gets you your internship, and your internship experience that gets you your residency. Whn you are in the practice on medicine, it will not matter whether you attended Rice or Stanford. And as many before me have saud, $110k in your pocket to use later will certainly help you leave med school without a boatload of debt.</p>

<p>Both campuses are beautiful, and both schools are great. You cannot go wrong with either. But, as many above have suggested, spend a weekend at each campus. I truly believe that after you do so, you will have a clear answer to this conundrum. Good luck.</p>

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<p>avalon, at this point, you need to separate the emotional and rational factors contributing to your decision. I think Rice wins on nearly every count when it comes to being rational...maybe visiting on Owl Weekend could help sway you. I attended Owl Weekend last year (and goddamn if I don't remember it like it happened yesterday...) and I had a great time. I ultimately ended up choosing my current school because of cost, but I think I would have had a great time at Rice.</p>

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<p>Avalon: Just wanted to add my 2 cents on how nice it is to hear from a student so thoughtful about their parents and not wanting to necessarily have them spend more money even if they can afford it. Whatever you decide, the fact that it matters to you speaks highly of you and your parents.</p>

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<p>Avalon,
Twelve months ago my D was facing the same decision you are now facing: Rice with large scholarships or Stanford with $0. She chose Stanford, but it was a hard decision for her and for our family. She visited both campuses to give both fair consideration. Both schools provide excellent educations to their students, and both have their advantages: at Rice she would have had research and leadership development opportunities from the first year. At Stanford she has a larger campus with more varied resources for extra curricular activities, and I think (not sure yet) a larger network for career placement when she graduates. She is very happy at Stanford, but I think that she would have been just as happy had she gone to Rice. However, the cost of her Stanford education is going to take almost all our lives' savings, so it has been a very serious decison for me and her dad. </p>

<p>My advice to you is that whichever one you pick, you should make the most of the advantages that that school offers and not second guess your decision. I was sad on the day she mailed off the Rice rejection because I wanted her to be able to go to both! Of course, she could only go to one, so the most important thing is to make the most of what that school has to offer.</p>

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<p><a href="Westheimer%20Rd.%20was%20named%20for%20my%20great-grandfather%20Westheimer%20and%20was,%20back%20in%20the%20day,%20an%20old%20dirt%20road%20that%20lead%20out%20to%20the%20family's%20farm!">quote</a>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Berurah - I stand in awe, that is truly cool!</p>

<p>I don't want to get into the middle of this, but I will say this/
Stanford may be one of the best bio schools in the world, but the Houston/MD Anderson Medical complex is arguably one of the finest medical complexes in the world, and Rice is right there.</p>

<p>Secondly Rice is a relatively small, but still undergrad oriented school, Stanford is definitely larger - only you can decide positive or negative.</p>