Parents and "That school is too liberal"

[DolorousEdd]

<p>

Many faculty members only welcome you to repeat back to them what they churn out.

Wow, you’ve been to how many colleges and universities in how many different departments to discover this? 17? 84? 213? 1?</p>

<p>

It might be tough as education itself is a liberal ideal.

Modern universal education may have been rooted in Marxism, but for the past century, it has been neither liberal nor conservative, and not political at all. I don’t see any conservatives decrying the ideal of education.</p>

<p>

I was talking to a friend from college (Wheaton in Mass.) who did a year at Georgetown. I asked her what it was like back then, the difference between the two. She said that at G’town (she was a Gov. major) the profs were happy to just have you parrot back what they taught. No back and forth. Hopefully that’s changed.

Either Georgetown has been pulling the rug over everybody who thinks it’s a great school, or it went a little like something I’ve seen:</p>

<p>Professor: “And so, we can see that, in practice, the People’s Republic of China has never been communist, but rather a one-country, one-party dictatorship exercising total state control over the market and engaging in state capitalism.”</p>

<p>Student: “No, they were communist.”</p>

<p>Professor: “Why do you think that? What is communism?”</p>

<p>Student: “Communism is a dictatorship where there’s no democracy and no rights to start a business.”</p>

<p>Professor: “Actually, communism is a world, stateless, classless society in which the means of production are controlled by the workers. We went over this, why didn’t you learn it?”</p>

<p>Student: “I’m not going to parrot back your liberal agenda!”</p>

<p>Professor: “But I’m not communist, I’m just trying to teach you what communism is, like I taught capitalism and socialism.”</p>

<p><em>RateMyProfessors review turns up that week saying professor pushes a communist agenda</em></p>

<p>Or was it physics/astronomy? While the last example really happened, here’s a hypothetical:</p>

<p>Professor: “The Big Bang, a rapid expansion of matter at the dawn of the universe, occurred approximately 13.7 billion years ago, causin–”</p>

<p>Student: “Who says!”</p>

<p>Professor: "… The body of physical science? Georges Lema</p>

[lookingforward]

<p>Did you and your parents visit any of the classes or meet with professors? Are they concerned about particular profs in your major who have national attention for particular views? Or, are they “picking up” on a liberal vibe based on what they see on campus or have “heard?”</p>

<p>I live near a very Catholic, very popular college, with emphasis on more conservative faculty attitudes- and it’s one of the wildest social scenes imaginable. Far, far more challenging to conservative kids than my own kids’ granola schools. My young friends there, some Catholics, move out of the dorms as soon as they can. So, while “conservative,” as a school label, may be important, the actual impact on you will come from many directions.</p>

<p>As for regurgitating: IMO, at issue is the construction of one’s arguments. At one extreme are the knee-jerk shallow thinkers. They will always lose against any faculty member who insists upon structure, adequate defense and critical thinking.</p>

<p>What we did was look at actual online course catalogs, to see classes offered and faculty web sites, to see profs’ backgrounds and research interests. (Not their poitical or lifestyle views.) This mattered when, eg, at a smalll college, the one class in (I’ll borrow from bluebayou’s example) supply-side economics was taught by a specialist in Keynsian theory.</p>

<p>On the whole, you’ll get better diversity of perspective at a larger college or U- and larger numbers of kids who think and live as you choose to. Good luck.</p>

[DJEureka]

<p>^True, unfortunately. Sure, there’s been sketchiness with some global warming data, but it’s disheartening to read articles about people contending evolution. Not in mechanics, but in overall validity…On a lighter note: [Conservapedia:Lenski</a> dialog - Conservapedia](<a href=“http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Lenski_dialog]Conservapedia:Lenski”>http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Lenski_dialog)</p>

[Creekland]

<p>

My point was that no school would use your money to further a political agenda, regardless of its political tilt.

</p>

<p>Once you pay, it’s a common pot and many schools do have a political stance I don’t care to further. I feel the same way with many of my purchasing decisions - not just colleges.</p>

<p>I’ve never once suggested certain colleges should be shut down or that no one should apply to them. We all make our own decisions about where our money and talents go as well as what is important and what isn’t. That’s the way our world works. We “vote” with our lives and our dollars.</p>

<p>Remember, the decision isn’t “get an education or not.” I do wonder how many liberal parents would pay for an education at Liberty U willingly. (FWIW, Liberty has never been on our radar either, but just to pick an ultra conservative example with a similar extreme to ultra liberal.)</p>

<p>I may not be in the majority on cc, but as I said before, I’ve no regrets and no apologies. My boys haven’t had issues either.</p>

<p>There are plenty of schools with green or yellow lights to consider. Middle son just got a huge package in today’s mail from the U of Chicago (green light - I just checked). He’s not interested in them (mainly location I think), but plenty of you are making it appear that some of us are really limiting our offspring’s choices. I think they have plenty of good choices.</p>

<p>In the OPs case, if he were to show his extended family the “light” system and let them know he didn’t pick a really conservative bashing school (Georgetown certainly isn’t), it might help. It’s worth a try.</p>

[lookingforward]

<p>OP, realize your parents aren’t the issue- but the thoughts extend to anyone who assumes a reputation as a liberal university necessarily blocks diversity of thought. Can’t assume or take hearsay, one way or the other. Need to figure if the complainers are truly forced to regurgitate or simply raise their own standards in critical thinking, analysis and evidence. IMO, one of the unexpected delights in college is sometimes a well-spoken argument between two opposing sides.</p>

[Creekland]

<p>For what it’s worth, I just checked all the Ivies and Stanford and MIT. Dartmouth, Princeton and MIT all get green. The rest get yellow. None get red.</p>

<p>For an example of red, consider Oberlin (never on any of my guys radars with or without this guide).</p>

[lookingforward]

<p>And, that troublesome Catholic college I mentioned also gets a green light.</p>

<p>And, Liberty. Surely, not a hotbed of divergent ideas.</p>

[Creekland]

<p>^^^ Remember that their light system is just designed for a quick look as to whether a conservative student will feel out of place on campus (quick definition, of course).</p>

<p>In that light, does it surprise you that whatever Catholic school and Liberty would get green? </p>

<p>One needs to read the whole writeup to get a feel for places overall. I can’t begin to say I’ve read them all, but I read those my boys are interested in and have found them quite fair to date. I even read Oberlin’s page 4 out of curiosity (that’s the page that deals with politics). It seemed quite fair to me too.</p>

<p>This is not a Christian guide by the way, but no doubt, a conservative would feel at home at most Christian colleges I imagine.</p>

[lookingforward]

<p>^Thanks. Thought so, but didn’t see it.<br>
Btw, so many of us do try to influence our kids’ thoughts about various colleges. I didn’t want # 1 to go anywhere hard (or expensive) to get to/from and DH discouraged her from mega-U’s.</p>

[pierre0913]

<p>I’m from Massachusetts and grew up in a very liberal environment for 17 years. Then I went to South Carolina to a very conservative environment for the past 2 years. I think I’ve gotten to know both sides very well (I’m a moderate/independent now as a result haha)</p>

[djz750]

<p>I think that so long as you remain confident when you talk to your family you will be fine. You are clearly an intelligent individual who thinks about things, so don’t worry about it. The most important people (you, your parents, in that order) are behind you.</p>

[jvtDad]

<p>Just a personal opinion, I don’t think there are many non-liberal colleges, even in Oklahoma… OU, TU… they’re all liberal. So, forget about it and apply to the schools that fit you best.</p>

[phantasmagoric]

<p>

Nope. I just want my guys to get an education as free of the political nonsense as possible.

</p>

<p>Wait, you think that conservative schools don’t provide educations imbued with their own political nonsense? The political tilt is expected everywhere, not just at liberal schools.</p>

<p>And again, I would think that a parent would have faith in their children’s ability to filter out the political nonsense. Believe it or not, they’re pretty good at it; I’d say in most cases, students spot bias almost immediately. In general, there is no political flavor to the material at hand, so the only times that it might come into play are, as mentioned, classes in history, poli sci, international relations, etc. There’s just no way to politically spin most subjects in a way that’d be relevant to the traditional liberal-conservative spectrum.</p>

<p>I just don’t see any legitimacy behind holding one’s children back from a potentially superior undergraduate experience (and that’s experience, not just education) simply because one is afraid that a political atmosphere will taint the students’ poor impressionable minds.</p>

[SeekingUni]

<p>

Wait, you think that conservative schools don’t provide educations imbued with their own political nonsense?

I clearly have no authority or experience to make this claim from, but I’m pretty sure that when you consider the fact that the VAST majority of professors are self-identified liberals, the issue is predominantly with liberals and not conservatives.</p>

<p>Like I said, I have nothing to go on with this statement, it’s just what I’d think offhand.

@Washington Post

By their own description, 72 percent of those teaching at American universities and colleges are liberal and 15 percent are conservative, says the study being published this week. The imbalance is almost as striking in partisan terms, with 50 percent of the faculty members surveyed identifying themselves as Democrats and 11 percent as Republicans.</p>

<p>The disparity is even more pronounced at the most elite schools, where, according to the study, 87 percent of faculty are liberal and 13 percent are conservative.

[College</a> Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds (washingtonpost.com)](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html]College”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html)</p>

[DolorousEdd]

<p>Saying that there are more liberals than conservatives in academia does not say anything about who imbues messages in their teachings. There are professors who teach in an unbiased way, there are liberals who do tend to put a more liberal tilt to non-scientific subjects, and there are conservatives who stuff utter falsehoods (Flintstones as a documentary, Earth created on Sunday October 23rd, 4004 BC, a little after 9am, evolution a lie) into hard science classes that are supposed to be filled with objective facts. Personally, I’d be more afraid of learning lies than learning biased economics.</p>

[annasdad]

<p>So the vast majority of the smartest, most well-educated people in the United States are liberals and Democrats? I wonder why?</p>

[SeekingUni]

<p>

Saying that there are more liberals than conservatives in academia does not say anything about who imbues messages in their teachings.

I was just noting that logically speaking, the issue of liberals imposing their views would be more widespread than conservatives imposing their views if there are more liberals than there are conservatives, which is the case. </p>

<p>But you are right. We can’t really determine if liberals tend to push their views more than conservatives do. I’m just saying that the issue is perceived as a liberal issue because it’s all you hear about since there are more of them. Just like people have irrational fears of airplane crashes… because they hear of them more often than deadly car wrecks. The fact is, statistically, flying in an airplane is much safer than driving the car down the street to the grocery store. I think it’s the availability heuristic, or something… one of the psychology terms.</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying liberal professors are the problem here, or that they’re the only ones who flaunt their ideals around.</p>

[DolorousEdd]

<p>

So the vast majority of the smartest, most well-educated people in the United States are liberals and Democrats? I wonder why?

Seems like the smartest behavior would to not be in some partisan hatefest, but whatever, let’s role with this. Education and class are correlated; the rich are more likely to be well-educated, because they have the means to provide their children and themselves with the best education available. Many well-educated liberals go into academia, many well-educated conservatives go into business, and vice versa.</p>

<p>Being well-educated does not mean you are smart, and being smart does not mean that you are wise. Someone can be intelligent, cunning, business-savvy, well-educated, and still lack greatly for wisdom.</p>

[SeekingUni]

<p>

So the vast majority of the smartest, most well-educated people in the United States are liberals and Democrats? I wonder why?

I’m sure many would like to think that. But on the other hand, maybe there’s a bit of this going on:

Rothman sees the findings as evidence of “possible discrimination” against conservatives in hiring and promotion. Even after factoring in levels of achievement, as measured by published work and organization memberships, “the most likely conclusion” is that “being conservative counts against you,” he said. “It doesn’t surprise me, because I’ve observed it happening.” The study, however, describes this finding as “preliminary.”

</p>

[lookingforward]

<p>Uh-oh. I have a fear of flying. And, given only one choice, to label myself either liberal or conservative, I would say liberal. Yes, I favor many of the so-called liberal stances, but not all. And, my closest peeps sometimes gasp (or something close) when I espouse a conservative viewpoint. Given a choice of two labels, I choose liberal. Given a 100 point scale, it’s another thing, entirely. </p>

<p>Some interesting studies are coming out of George Mason lately. But, understand that socio-poitical research includes a lot of positing. To explore possible discrimination in hiring, they’d have to dig a lot deeper. On the other hand, media hype and sound bites sell. </p>

<p>So, if a prof disagrees with you that the GMU study is sufficient to actually indicate discrimination- or prove it- is he pushing his liberal viewpoints? Seeking to protect the privileges of his majority liberal cohort? Or, asking for further consideration and better proofs? </p>

<p>OP, I suspect you’ll do well wherever you go. You seem to be open to discussion, which will get you far.</p>