<p>The most liberal thing at any “liberal school” is just about always the students themselves. So when conservative parents try to keep their kids away from “liberal schools”, it will likely make the student body, and thus the school, more liberal. C’mon, what are you afraid of? Everyone’s welcome. Come to Amherst and be yourself.</p>
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Thanks… I truly am open to discussion about anything. A lot of times, people think I’m intellectually hollow because of it… because I don’t always have a SOLID stance that I defend without considering other perspectives or even facts, like most ignorant people do. </p>
<p>At this point, I’m thinking if some liberal beliefs DO rub off on me, it won’t be out of sheer influence or because it’s what I’ve been told to believe. It will be because I was exposed to a different viewpoint that I wasn’t familiar with hearing every day, and it feels more right to me. I’m the kind of person who always wants more information, more input, more feedback, and if getting that means I change a belief or a principle I hold, then all the more power to me because as far as I’m concerned, it’s a now more explored and considered ideal and I have a more well-rounded stance on it.</p>
<p>In life, despite the fact that some people insist, there’s very little black and white. You can wish for a balanced budget and still want to preserve, say, the CDC. You can decry abortion and yet feel it is a choice. You can be a supply-sider, but learn from a Keynesian. In many cases, being open solidifies one’s early viewpoints.</p>
<p>Btw, IME, the fear shouldn’t be in a prof expecting you to parrot. For so many of them, it’s a matter of liberal pride to encourage discussion. So many, though, hate a p-poor argument. Perhaps, as you narrow your list, you can post a few threads on those college’s forums, asking about profs, attitudes and the down-time activities you think you’ll most enjoy. Versus any conformity, wild hedonism or whatever you wish to avoid. One way you can “line yourself up” against a prospective college is to dig deep into their clubs and actiities- you may find more activist groups at some schools, few conservative or religious opportunities. Or, you may be surprised at how you can fit.</p>
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<p>There aren’t “more of them.” Liberals vastly outnumber conservatives in academia, not in society at large. The fact is, a liberal is more likely to see being a university professor–or a teacher, or a social worker–as an attractive career goal. Big deal.</p>
<p>Oh, and just for the record,</p>
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<p>“preliminary finding” = “the follow-up article with all the relevant data will have to wait until we conjure up some evidence” in academic lingo</p>
<p>The only solid proof of discrimination against conservatives in hiring and promotion in academia that I can think of would be a discrepancy between the percentages of conservative grad students, conservative PhD-holders, and conservative PhD holders who are employed in academia (after “factoring in levels of achievement,” of course). Such a discrepancy would mean grad schools/academic departments discriminate against people based on their political views. E.g. if conservative students are less likely than liberals to find gainful employment in academia after graduation (% of con grads vs % of cons in academia), then universities simply aren’t hiring conservatives at the same rates. Or if conservatives don’t complete their PhDs at the same rates as liberals (% of con grad students vs % of con PhD-holders), that could mean they are getting less institutional support from their universities.</p>
<p>As it is, no such evidence exists, at least not to my knowledge. Liberals outnumber conservatives everywhere in academia–grad school, the ranks of the unemployed, and TT professors.</p>
<p>Why is that? There are two possible explanations. Either the discrimination happens in grad school admissions (or earlier, in recruitment) and prevents conservatives from entering academia altogether, and is therefore undetectable by these means, or conservatives are just not interested in academia, full stop. As grad school applications do not usually include any elements that could reveal your political affiliation–they’re more about your research potential and ideas, funny how that works–the latter seems far more likely.</p>
<p>Of course, if Mr. Rothman’s research contradicts my assumptions, I’d be happy to read it. Phrases like “preliminary finding,” “I’ve observed it happening,” “possible” and “most likely” make me doubt that, though.</p>
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I didn’t intend to imply that there are more of them in society. I thought it was fairly clear that I was referring to their presence in academia. </p>
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I really don’t understand why you’re coming across as so harsh trying to dismantle my mere mentioning of the idea of discrimination which originally came from the news article. I didn’t quote it because I’m holding it to be the undeniable truth and holy grail… I only mentioned it in response to somebody else who proposed an opposing unfounded conclusion.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, I tend to come across as a little confrontational sometimes. I wasn’t trying to attack you personally; I wrote such a long post because the idea expressed in the quote struck me as unfounded, and illogical arguments annoy me when I spot them. Sorry for going off on a tangent.</p>
<p>As for the second one, I’ll edit my post, because I do agree I was out of line. I apologize.</p>
<p>In reply to the OP: I would not pick a school or apply to schools because they are conservative or not if you do not truly care where you go to school. If you go to a liberal school, then hey you get to see another point of view and if you agree, you convert, and if not, you will become more confident in your beliefs. College is a great time to get away from your family and see the world and the different ways people see it and you should by no way limit your choices based on politics if you really don’t care.</p>
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<p>As a homeschooled student I find the clone comment somewhat offensive. Do you really think homeschooling is just a brainwashing affair? I guess from afar I can see how you would think of my parents as the sole source of my education, but in reality it is so much more than that. Plato, Thoreau, Aquinas, and Twain they are my teachers. My parents are just a small piece in the puzzle that made up my educational process. But I digress.</p>
<p>I do see what your point is, and agree with you to some extent. I could care less if a professor and I don’t see eye-to-eye, the problem is when my grade is not based on how well I defend my view, but instead for what that view is.</p>
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<p>It’s more than that. A liberalization of social views is one of the consistent outcomes of a higher education (see “How College Affects Students” by Pascarella and Terenzini). It’s the educational breadth itself that tends to foster a liberal climate. P&T did a meta-analysis of three decades of research on college outcomes and found the liberalizing of attitudes to be a norm.</p>
<p>All of us are raised in a particular setting or settings by certain people in certain cultural milieus who tend to reflect their own particular values. When a student goes to college (according to student development theory), s/he begins to encounter far greater degrees of difference than s/he probably had an opportunity to encounter in his or her home setting. The typical response to that difference often begins with condemnation of different values and ideas, then a growing awareness that there may be multiple ways of perceiving that are neither all wrong nor all right, then an emerging respect for different viewpoints that may add greater degrees of insight to one’s own positions. And the willingness to view things from multiple viewpoints and accommodate different interpretations of what’s right or appropriate is a core characteristic of the orientation that we label “liberal” (in fact, that’s why we refer to it as “liberal,” which means “broad” or “unbounded”).</p>
<p>The fact that a higher degree of education correlates with a liberalizing of social views doesn’t necessarily mean that political liberals are smarter than conservatives. Or, OTOH, maybe it does 
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<p>[“Higher</a> intelligence is associated with liberal political ideology, atheism, and men’s (but not women’s) preference for sexual exclusivity” Vashtyism](<a href=“Private Site”>Private Site)</p>
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<p>Ah, but that isn’t the case at conservative schools, intentionally so. So I stand by what I said about it being a problem for both liberals and conservatives; we can’t assume that liberals don’t know how to be unbiased while conservatives are just little rays of impartiality. Where there’s a professor, there could be a bias (given the subject material allows for it), whether it’s liberal or conservative.</p>
<p>I’ve attempted to be unbiased here, but perhaps my own political inclination has become apparent. ;)</p>
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<p>But does that apply only the views on social issues, versus fiscal and economic issues? Perhaps the “conservatives” are being turned into “libertarians” rather than “liberals” (in the US sense of the words).</p>
<p>@gadad,</p>
<p>I was trying to avoid playing the education-makes-people-liberal card because some people apparently find it offensive/controversial/lamentable… True as it may be.</p>
<p>My personal political beliefs lie somewhere left of “Socialist” however I attend a very conservative school (I had to bribe a libertarian prof with pie to get a sponsor for a College Democrat of America club… and we only have 12 members.) </p>
<p>I have rather enjoyed the atmosphere even though my ideas are ALWAYS in the minority. It has made controversial topic papers easy to write in my major (my professors all know I am extremely liberal and I have never made an effort to hide it or fit in… and they have never docked me or taken away points for my beliefs.)</p>
<p>I realize that I have not made any new converts, however that has never been my goal, I just want to be me and have never taken any heat over it (besides a few tree hugger and Obamacare jokes)</p>
<p>If I had it to do over again I would wholeheartedly pick my school and in fact could not imagine going to one of the more liberal schools where my opinions were the same as everyone else.</p>
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<p>And being in business turns many of those into conservatives (which is probably offensive/controversial/lamentable - and true). ;)</p>
<p>I’m definitely not the only “brought up liberal turned conservative by life experiences post college” in my various circles. The most conservative person I know is the manager at a city Dollar Tree. She only turned into a conservative AFTER working and running the store for a short time. There are plenty of other examples too.</p>
<p>This, I suppose, is my problem with academia. Many there only know theories - and face it, the theories sound great. Then there’s practicality and real life people to deal with, etc.</p>
<p>But I digress. ;)</p>
<p>I think OP’s only real issue is that he has too many family members offering opinions about his college choices. That would be a problem for any student, whether the opinions were about political leanings, school size, geography or anything else. It’s hard enough for a high schooler to get a handle on school selection without getting unsolicited advice from relatives with their own agendas. I recommend that the OP simply stop discussing this subject with the extended family. If asked what schools OP plans to apply to, just say “I’m still considering my options, but thanks for asking.” If asked what schools OP has actually applied to, say “quite a few, and the process was exhausting, so until I get my responses, I’m taking a break from the whole subject–but thanks for asking.” And once a decision is made and a deposit made, all those opinions will be irrelevant.</p>
<p>^ some of the best advice I have ever read. Just get the pressure off!</p>
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<p>Many of the conservative people I know who have graduated from university tend to be more libertarian; they may be conservative on taxes and the like, but not so much on social issues like gay marriage and the like.</p>
<p>But, regardless of claimed general ideology, most people tend to want lower taxes for themselves, and greater government spending that benefits them. And the most clever special interest lobbyists have gotten their government subsidies hidden as special interest loopholes in the tax code (rather than line items of spending that can be cut), so that trying to remove them will cause the reflexive anti-tax people to defend them instead of decrying them as wasteful spending.</p>
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[right].[/right]</p>
<p>Coming from the midwest, we always thought any school east of the Ohio state line was too liberal. Ha Ha</p>
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[Liberty</a> University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_University]Liberty”>Liberty University - Wikipedia)</p>