@quadaces Yes, that is exactly one of the feelings that we have.
I think that if we go this OOS route, we just have to think about the opportunity, and whether THAT is worth the money, rather than focusing on the other students and what they are paying.
@milee30 I really don’t think most people in Texas would consider moving their kids/family to a district where their the student would make the 10% (6% UT) cutoff, I am sure it happens but I doubt on a large scale.
As @ucbalumnus points out there IS a serious amount of gaming the system though. We did not move to Texas until our oldest was 1/2 way thru 8th grade and we had no idea that the 10% rule was even a thing until probably 1/2 way through 10th grade. We pushed for our kids to take Alegbra in 8th grade just because we thought it was the right class for them, little did we know that was an important step in ensuring HS class rank, we did not however push them to take biology in 8th grade and let them pursue band and theater, little did we know that taking biology in 8th grade was also an important step! Also taking summer classes or dual credit because our school district does not figure in any grade taken outside of the regular school year or off campus into the GPA. Lots of little tweaks and adjustments we missed along the way…by the time we figured it out for the eldest is was too late and she was in the 16th%. She had some really good college admissions success so we choose to leave well enough alone for DD2018, the few adjustments we made pushed her up a few % to 14th%, my kids were essentially the same stats wise. It seems clear to me that the system really can be gamed if you are willing to make the effort; we weren’t. It worked out for us.
@quadaces - Completely get your situation. Set the money aside for a minute. UVA and UMich have long been considered the top (with UC and UNC, WIlliam & Mary) public colleges in the country. Not for a yr or two, but for decades, literally. Although you have to wonder about the ranking criteria with all the lists, it can’t be fiction that they show up on the top of virtually every ranking service every yr. Suny Binghamton, although I’m sure a fine school, doesn’t appear on most lists. There has to be reasons. Quality of education, quality of professors, quality of students (that’s a big thing as that becomes the new peer group), quality of internships and job placement (not just the companies but the actual jobs). quality of everything. Again, setting dollars aside, it would be very hard to make an argument that UVA wasn’t a better school all the way around (it’s ok to consider one better than the other- face it Harvard is BETTER than school X. It just is. So many people on CC try to convince themselves it’s not. Why wouldn’t it be? Maybe in a particular major - engineering it’s not as good as others - but in the vast majority of things it’s better).
Now maybe you don’t think the quality is worth the pricetag. That’s a different conversation. Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t. Depends what you’re looking for. It also depends on your financial situation. No problem vs. able to swing it vs. no way are three very different scenarios. The first and last decide themselves. Able to swing it becomes tricky. I say do what feels right in your core. Don’t worry about justifying to anyone but yourself.
We don’t have it so it was not a consideration. Twins applied and accepted to Penn State and one to UMD also but the cost is considerable. Two in state options with some $, one school more than the other and both got generous financial aid from a private school. We’ve kept them posted so no surprises and our large in state is similarly ranked academically. Only one more school, decisions at the end of the month!
Our in-state flagship is okay, not stellar, so both kids looked out of state for better options. We sent DD to full-pay OOS, where she is now a freshman. She loves it. The OOS school has a stellar reputation and it is my alma mater. As that is the case, I felt I knew as much as anyone could know about what we’d get in return for our investment. In addition to a middling reputation, the in-state flagship is unfortunately located in our hometown. In her words, DD did not want to do “high school 2.0” by running into the same people at college or in even in town. DS, a high school senior, is of the same mind and can’t wait to get away. Although he has a hefty merit scholarship for the in-state flagship, he’s going to the full-pay flagship in an adjacent state which has a better program for his major, and give him the freedom to explore other programs that are also well-known. Both kids also had liberal arts school options with merit, but in the end, both chose state flagships because they were safer decisions.
WHY is it so important to have no HS classmates at college? Did this bother you when he moved from 8th to 9th grade and cause a search for a different school? If 2 others got into Princeton or Stanford, would your son turn down the acceptance because he might run into them at college?
My daughter went 2000 miles away from Florida for college. Lived in the same dorm as a boy she went to k-5 with, and joined the same (rather small) sorority as a girl from that same k-5 class. It was nice to see a friendly face once in a while. My other daughter stayed in Florida and a guy she was kind of dating went to the same small school. He lasted a month and then she had the whole place to herself. A girl from a rival high school ended up on the same sports team. It’s fine.
I can’t imagine having even 100 former classmates on campuses the size of UF, FSU, or UCF would even be a drop in the friendship bucket. Or ‘running into all the time’ bucket. Plenty of room for everyone.
I am often confused by the “running into people from high school” worry. A flagship campus usually has between 20k - 50k student plus faculty, administrators and support staff. The only way you are “running into a high school classmate” is out of choice or really random occurrence. Lol. If you ignore them, they will ignore you. I tried explaining that to my eldest…to no avail! If you mean trying to avoid a certain “type” of student that may be a tiny bit harder, but in general the same types if kids populate most flagships.
Some of the kids I know who wanted to avoid the same colleges popular with their high school did so to be different. They didn’t want to give a common answer to the question of where they were going to college. Some of them ending up paying a significant amount more to go OOS and its a mixed bag in terms of whether those OOS options are higher/lower ranked.
From what I hear, students from the same high schools at a lot of large colleges have facebook pages/group text messages to stay together. So there are groups of 40-50+ kids who often hang out together. Multiply that by 4 classes and its 160-200+ kids. Its not that they don’t like those kids (or at least some of them). But the concern is it will be easier to hang out with those kids rather than branching out and meeting new kids. If they go to a school where its not an option to hang out with kids from high school, they are more likely to branch out and meet new friends. More of an issue for less outgoing kids.
Concentrations can also be an issue. Maybe 50 kids in your high school on a campus of 25k kids isn’t too bad. But it can be more of an issue if you have say 30 in a college (such as business or engineering) meaning the concentrations are higher and those are kids who you often will see a lot more. And put one or two kids from your high school you didn’t like on the same dorm floor as you and the dynamics of making friends changes.
Some kids also just want a chance to start over. In many large public school systems, kids are in the same building with the same kids for 7-10 years. There is typically a much smaller group of kids in the most advanced classes. Kids often get pigeonholed in terms of who they were and who their friends were. Can be difficult to break out of that as you mature/change. In college, those kids are looking for a chance to start over where no one knows them.
Generally speaking I have found that the less happy kids were with their social experience in high school and the less outgoing they are, the less likely they will want to go to a college with any significant number of kids from their high school.
So like a lot of things discussed on this board, the answer depends. Does it make sense for your kid? Maybe not. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense for other kids.
S was quite happy and outgoing in HS (class president, sports captain, etc.). Although not being in the same college as high school friends was a minor consideration (really more about experiencing life away from FL), we are ecstatic that he had to make a fresh start. Incredible growth experience for him. Virtually all of his friends from HS remained in state and go to the primary state schools. Many chose to room with a HS friend, hang out primarily with HS friends, come home way to frequently (in my opinion - love that is not an option for S. Going away to school has meant going away and exploring new things) . I think it also helps that his school required 100% random room mates (freshmen yr) and also requires living on campus for the first three yrs. It creates an incredible campus community.
Not suggesting this is better. Better is subjective. For him, it’s better as it’s the college environment he sought. Also a small, highly academic (yet social) school. Most classes under 25 students. Many classes discussion based even for the freshmen. Lot of work, but he’s having a blast in that environment, not to mention all four seasons (think he’s getting tired of the snow - but he had never dealt with it prior).
“We are seriously considering UMich and UVA, but it is very hard to swallow the OOS price tag when you know what the in state students are paying.”
If you are going to be an OOS full payor at one of the public Ivies, then you’d also be a full payor at most of the top private schools too. Do you really feel differently being in the 25% of families paying full OOS sticker for Michigan versus the 35% of families full paying at Harvard?
More often, the question is whether it is worth it to full pay $60k for a school like Michigan versus full pay $70k for a similarly ranked private school experience (smaller classes). Answer depends, obviously, on what kind of college experience fits the kid.
My kids were not looking for an XL-sized college experience, so they all picked privates over my alma mater UVA. But lots of folks we know made the exact opposite choice, and considered the $10k lower price a nice discount/savings to full pay private.
@northwesty I agree with your statements comparing top OOS public cost to top private cost…
If my S had also applied to the high end private schools it wouldn’t be a big leap to considering paying for an OOS flagship. But my S only applied to schools at which there was some possibility of merit, however slight. That meant no Ivies, no NESCAC.
Had I known then what I know now about the competitiveness of merit at top 50 schools, the list may have been different.
Also, for us, we are on the cusp (likely eligible for a drop in the bucket) of FA from the expensive private schools. The decision to pay full price is a big one.
DS1 is an OOS Freshman at Univ. S. Carolina. He chose USC over instate James Madison, Christopher Newport and Va Tech. He is not full pay. USC offered merit aid. But it costs more to attend USC even with the large merit aid award that he received due to associated program fees. Probably about 4k a year, plus the huge difference in travel expense. One of his reasons for attending USC was a more robust public health related program than the instate alternatives. He also was adamant that he didn’t want to go where everyone else did (JMU). Guess who his roomate will be next year? Someone from his high school (that he didn’t really know there)
DS2 is looking at OOS UNC CH v. UVA. But CH has awarded grant money which will offset the cost, making the OOS option just slightly more expensive.
I have told both my sons to seriously think if they will be happy OOS looking at the kid next to them who is paying so much less. My kids are going to have to take loans out to contribute to their education cost. I’m a single parent, and just can’t swing it. Both told me that they wouldn’t have chosen OOS over IS if it was a full pay difference. And I have to agree. But we are lucky with amazing in state options and some OOS merit aid or grants which help defray the cost.
Good luck.
The OOS our D18 chose has a well known program for her major and is in a location she wants to live. A few in-state schools had her major, but she didn’t want to go there. She is in IB and her OOS gave her more credits and the price difference was only a couple of thousand a year- so it made sense to us.
At the top flagship college for our state, there is little merit. She only knows of one friend who is in line for a merit scholarship, everyone else got nothing.
Some state flagship schools are a lot better than most private schools. Why pay for a school just because it is private if there is a better option? Parents should not look at a school’s cost to their student relative to the instate students. As bad as figuring out the costs for the same flight. The cost needs to be worth it to the student, not that it costs so much more than it does for others. Should the instate students at a school complain because an OOS student ended up paying less (eg merit scholarship)?
We were fortunate to live in a top tier flagship school state so it was a matter of why pay more for a private that isn’t as good…
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@wis75 Yes, you are fortunate to live in a state with such a strong flagship. If we lived in Wisconsin, we would likely not be in this situation :-?
We are wrestling with that now! While my daughter truly loves Univ Richmond, W&M, WF, Davidson, and Reed in that order she wants to be a Physicians Assistant.
Why spend all that money when she can go to many no name (lack of a better word) colleges for free and then apply to PA programs?
I think she would learn more at the aforementioned schools, but it surely isnt worth 120k-200k that is for sure.
I have twin daughters and one is going to our in state school- Maryland, and one is going to Virginia Tech as a full-pay. Even though my husband and myself are both VT alum, we tried to keep our mouths shut when touring colleges. My daughter going to Tech absolutely loved it, and she did not love Maryland. It is difficult to justify the money for sure, however we just didn’t think she’d be as successful at Md. She did not want to be with all of her high school classmates, or in the city, etc… while my other daughter would prefer the security of being close to home, and having some friends she already knows.
Texas ranking system sucks…(biased obviously) daughter 2 is small competitive STEAM school, 432 kids, 112 graduating class.
The top 10 is is seperated by .014gpa and if you werent able take the freshman dual credit computer networking class you can’t make it in the top 10.
Ridiculous school ridiculous system.
@wis75, I think that the cost for everyone else is relevant, but not dispositive. If instate options are lousy, and an OOS flagship is the best choice as compared to private options, then I agree what others pay instate should not impact the decision of where to attend. But in the students are consumers. Knowing what others pay for the product can be instructive on the value of the product, especially as it compares to other products. I was thinking specifically of my D2 who is looking at UNC CH v. UVA. Paying $32k OOS where the instate folks pay $8k a year means that you are subsidizing their education. If you are ok with that as a consumer, that is your choice. But it warrants some thought.