For our DD, it came down to her major and internships. The flagship was not strong in either, so we had to look elsewhere and since the flagship was soooooo expensive, it was actually a wash. Yay!
You aren’t subsidizing the instate costs. The OOS tuition is more likely the true costs, comparable to a private school. The state is subsidizing the education of the residents.
Because we are in CA state, and CA has UCLA and Berkeley as its public schools, we never even considered attending OOS public schools at higher or equal prices. But we did seriously consider attending an OOS Honors College with substantial merit money in lieu of UCLA/Berkeley.
Very interesting thread, thanks OP.
We are in NC and I believe we have very good options for college. DS is a few years away from college and his mother and I would like for him to experience a different area of the US (and I think ideally all kids should) but it will be hard to justify paying the additional money given that UNC and NC State are very good choices.
UNC instate tuition has nothing to do with OOS cost. State just keeps it low. Always has. Would you feel better if it were $16,000 like Penn State?
We are in California and my daughter was never going to get into UCLA or Berkeley. She was rejected from UCSB and UCSD.
We are paying full ride at what I guess one would call an out-of-country public flagship if one thinks of St. Andrews as the flagship of Scotland. Scottish students go for free. And yes we are subsidizing their education. However she’s getting an excellent education for the same price we would have paid for a UC.
Great topic! Even though we all have different situations and views it’s helpful (& comforting!) to hear other’s thoughts. We may be faced with this very issue: DD has been accepted at flagship UNC but her top choice is William & Mary (waiting to hear). WM is absolutely perfect for her, from size, academics, social scene, etc., she’s passionate about it. She is more reserved (and nerdy) and although she’s excited about UNC, WM is the best fit of any she toured. Not to mention she wants to get away and UNC is within 10 miles. UNC would be easy financially, WM would be challenging but possible with some debt. We have no other college bound kids. But is it worth twice the cost? Of course she has to be accepted first(!!) but would love to hear from an OOS WM parent.
Also, it is okay to set a budget and tell your son that he has to find a college with a net cost under that amount.
“but it will be hard to justify paying the additional money given that UNC and NC State are very good choices.”
Of course.
Studies/surveys say that college decisions of any kind (public or private, IS or OOS, etc. etc. etc.) are most often driven by one primary thing – the ratio of actual/net cost to prestige/value. The stats from the top tier publics show this in spades, since they have two different sticker prices.
UVA’s yield on IS offers is 58%, which is Ivy League yield territory (and does not rely upon yield boosters like ED or SCEA). For most families, you’re not going to get a better ratio. Yield on OOS offers is 22%. The cost/prestige ratio is still good, but the OOS families can find a similar or better ratio at many other schools too.
The OOS takers at UVA would tend to be the kids for whom UVA was the highest ranked school they got into. For example, an OOS legacy admit for whom UVA would have been a big admissions stretch without the legacy boost.
I’m incredulous reading some of the posts regarding attending in state vs out of state public vs private. People must have money to burn. Unless your kid is going to Caltech, MIT or one of the ivies AND you can afford it, your instate public will almost always be the better deal. The ivies give no merit aid and unless you are very rich or very poor you will incur great debt to go. Some out of state publics offer significant merit aid to good students that can reduce the cost closer to instate levels. (Buyer beware though if your kid fails to pull the minimum GPA they will lose their merit discount!) Parents should be focusing their kids on majoring in an area where there are available jobs like healthcare or STEM. Parents and students should do everything possible to LIMIT DEBT! Some of the worst doctors I’ve worked with went to ivy schools, some of the best to public schools and other privates. All Have significant debt but the ivy and private grads are drowning in debt even worse and unless you are specialist and perform surgery it is lifelong debt. The student majoring in engineering or nursing at their instate public is wise——- the student majoring in psychology or history at an expensive private while incurring great debt—— not very wise
@njdadjets - you use the term “deal” as in “it’s a better deal”. Not everyone feels that way. Yes of course, in state is less expensive but that doesn’t , on it’s own, make it a better deal. The concept of deal is putting everything in terms of dollars, not value. Value is a completely subjective thing. We likely value things quite differently. For example, I would never buy an expensive watch or pen or car because those things have little value to me. I’d lose the pen, scratch the watch and not care for the car the way it deserved. Others feel completely different. I probably put more value on other things than others might. I don’t often buy furniture for our home, but when I do, it’s really expensive and lasts forever. Many would say, that’s just a couch. You could have bought 3 of them, but I like what I like. Education and college experience falls into that category for me. I like what I like .
I think everyone should send their kid to the best (however you define it) school you can afford.Afford assumes it doesn’t dramatically change your lifestyle. There will always be a lower cost alternative. No one doubts that. But what did the kid get out of it? I view it as giving my kids a certain set of tools to use for the rest of their lives.Not all tools are equal. Iw ant them to have the very best ones I can afford. To me, that’s the best deal going.
I’m faced with this same question right now- OOS public vs instate private for D. Instate only if she gets accepted to the very competitive business school but she probably won’t get in. Private U’s were not considered because of cost. So D will probably go OOS public with or without merit depending on her choice. I would never consider private because I can’t see the cost/benefit justifying the huge difference in price. It’s not just about many public schools being able to offer as much as many private U’s in terms of preparation for my child’s future. I look at the difference in price- 35 to 40,000/year- between public and private and know that the difference will allow me to leave $150,000 to each of my children in a trust for future use in buying a home or whatever. After years of growth in the market it will be even more than that. Public school is the only defense an upper middle class higher earner has against outrageous college costs unless you are superrich. I would rather my children have the money than a private U that has been raising prices far in excess of inflation over the last 25 years resulting in what I consider IMHO ridiculous private U COA.
Unfortunately, especially over the last, three to four years, public OOS U’s have caught on to the middle class demand for cheaper alternative colleges and have been raising their prices rapidly, some raising prices more than 10% per year. If you don’t get significant merit they are not as much of a bargain anymore.
And that $150,000 saved, which is after-tax dollars, is equivalent to something in the range of $225,000 of gross income. After 10 years, when a child is out of college and starting a family (i.e., ready to buy a home) it may have grown to over $300,000 in gross income equivalent. How long would it take for many college graduates to save the equivalent of 300K in gross income? If your child earns 80k/year over the first five years, and saves 20k/year, it would amount to only 100k or one-third of that amount saved by going to OOS public or instate.
^^^ a lot of this conversation has to do with your resident state. We don’t particularly care for our in state choices, especially sensing son’s desire to live elsewhere professionally. That being the case our options were basically pricey ones . S did get a scholarship to one very good school but it wasn’t the best choice for him (virtually 100% undergrad business school - wouldn’t go there to do anything else so he didn’t like the lack of flexibility. Good decision as he has developed a strong interest in polisci to go along with business). He did apply and got accepted to an outstanding state school as an OOS (William & Mary) but chose a private over The Tribe. The price wasn’t that different. If you’re looking for a school like W&M, you’ll see a vast difference between it and most large state flagships .
I totally get that many if not most on CC think it’s crazy to spend X when you could go to state U and do just fine. We thought the same thing for our high school experience with many of our friends choosing to pay for private (let’s just say our traditional public HSs are not the best - some standouts, but most very sketchy - it’s a real problem in FL). We were fortunate to find a public charter for S and it was / is amazing. Daughter attends a performing arts magnet HS that is equally amazing for her passions (Think FAME high school for those in your 50s). Without finding these two, we would have had to make that public vs. private / expensive decision when they were 14.
There was no instate option for what my daughter ( and we) considered “ must haves”. A four year nursing program with a significant Jewish population. These requirements actually limited her to just a handful of schools mostly OOS public’s and placed her at a top OOS public. No regrets.
One of my kids stayed instate ( non flagship) and it was the right decision for her major and interests. My other D did not stay instate- our top university was not right for her. She attends an OOS public university that costs more money… but for her it’s money well spent. She wanted to be heavily involved in undergraduate research… and also be very connected to a research community. We could not find any students who did this … or expressed an interest… at our top state school… and we tried really hard to find them ( we know a lot of students there). My D was given the name of a contact person at our state school who never got back to her. At her current school… she has always heard back the same day. At her current school she knocks on the door… and is invited into the lab to chat for two hours.
Our state schools are very good for certain things: nursing, teaching, PT 3+3 programs, for example. That’s not what D wanted. That being said… the OOS school is affordable for us despite costing more.
My son has gotten OOS Merit aid which makes it comparable to no aid in-state (we are just starting to hear back from UCs), but even with additional travel cost and additional program costs ($6K) we are still considering UCONN and University of Denver because our state schools (and the privates in California) offer no supports for autism spectrum kids and while it’s possible that my kid may not need them, if he does, then I want him to be able to have them. I’m also considering OOS for the same reason my mother encouraged us to go OOS (I think one of the 6 I applied to was in state private), to spread one’s wings and hopefully for absence to make the heart grow fonder. 2 of her 3 came back to California, one for good (until I can get out), but had some perspective of where to live after college.
We’re facing a similar situation. D plans on majoring in engineering (ChemE as a start) and was accepted to UF and FSU as in-state options. Florida’s Bright Futures scholarship will cover full tuition, so we’re looking at just room and board costs. She was also accepted to Pitt and GaTech with no merit at either; at UofSC with merit bringing tuition down to the in-state rate and a half-tuition scholarship at SLU.
We’ve toured GaTech, and UF Engineering Departments already. We’ll complete tours of the others by mid April. Hopefully she’ll find the best fit.
GaTech definitely has the best ranking and we were really impressed with all the opportunities that we saw during our tour of the Engineering Department. However, she would have to start classes this summer. She wants an urban setting, so overall GaTech looks like a great fit even though the cost will be ~$35k/year more than our in-state options.
I’d put UF and Pitt on equal ground at this point with respect to their Engineering schools and opportunities for research, internships, and co-ops. She hates Gainesville, and that’s going to be a hard thing to overcome. Pitt would be the same cost as GaTech, so I think GaTech is the better option.
I have concerns about engineering at FSU, SLU, and UofSC when UF, Pitt, and GaTech are available to her. SLU doesn’t even offer ChemE directly, although there are programs that might enable her to get a ChemE degree from WUSTL concurrently with a BS in Chemistry from SLU. We’ll have to see how the tours shake out.
My preference is UF at this point, but if she’s going to be miserable at Gainesville I’d rather pay the extra money for OOS.
GaTech is tempting, but that is a huge difference in money.
My daughter is graduating from a Tech school in Florida, having used her BF (not full tuition because that aspect is new), combined with other merit aid, state aid, and an athletic scholarship did cover all her tuition and most of her other costs. She just got a job with a big engineering firm. The two guys who run her dept went to UF. Some of the others she met are from other schools, but as has often been mentioned here on CC, engineers from all schools get hired.
Being unhappy at UF is a choice. Choose to be happy.