After scores only OOS scholarship, the in state flagship is the same price, and they offer nothing to upper middle income families. Easy admit to the in state flagship, ACT 32, 4.0/4.0, school won’t rank but will be speaking at graduation, read into that what you want, will have 24 hours completed 4 year college credit before HS graduation, still nothing offered scholarship wise in state. Since OOS flagship offered enough to bring it down to the same price, I don’t see a reason to send S to UM or MSU. He won’t live in MI after college, so not moving post graduation isn’t a factor.
“I’m incredulous reading some of the posts regarding attending in state vs out of state public vs private. People must have money to burn.”
NJDadJets – it all depends on the kid, the family, the finances, the school, the deal, and what the alternatives are.
Half of Univ of Mich is OOS. Were it not for the VA legislature’s cap, UVA would go from one-third OOS to half overnight.
Half of UO/Eugene is OOS – hence its nickname of University of Northern California. Half of CU/Boulder is OOS – largely CA and TX kids who are closed out of UCLA, UCB and UT Austin. But Univ of Wyoming is 31% OOS – mostly Colorado kids since Wyoming OOS is often the same/cheaper than CU/Boulder.
Penn State is 41% OOS – with lots of those being NJ kids who could have attended Rutgers. 60% of Bama students are OOS. And so on…
Michigan schools in general are treating in state poorly. Several are granting OOS waivers to all accepted, so there is absolutely no benefit to being in state, the charged tuition is the same. Family income over $100k, and in state is effectively a guaranteed $0 in university money. They really don’t want middle class in state kids attending.
@shortnuke GT may not offer merit, but they may offer some need based aid. Enough to perhaps remove the “sting” a bit from that OOS tuition rate. Wait to see the final FA package before deciding. Keep in mind that the OOS rate is likely to keep increasing every year…
The difference is there is plenty of room at Wyoming for all the Wyoming kids who want to go there, plus all the OOS kids. Same at Vermont which is 65% OOS.
@Gator88NE Our EFC is ~$70K, so need based aid won’t be coming (can’t complain about that though…we’ve been really blessed). We told her what we’re going to contribute, that any shortfall would have to be made up by her, and that any excess would be hers upon graduation (she’s an only child). I definitely want her to make the value call and have skin in the game.
She knows that to swing GT (or Pitt), she would need to co-op and work summers, and even then she’d probably graduate with the maximum unsubsidized Direct student loan debt. Based on current rates, that comes to ~$350/month for 10 years. It’s a manageable debt for an engineer coming out of GT, but she has to weigh that against being able to graduate from UF with close to $100K in her account (assuming she did the same type of summer jobs and co-ops).
@northwesty the title of this thread is FULL PAY OOS flagship not including FA scholarships etc., in this case for most people who do this, money is not an object.
@CU123 I am the OP, and for us money is definitely an object. If it were not an object, I would not have started this thread:)
H and I come from modest backgounds, have no inherited money, and have lived below our means for our entire working lives, even while paying off college loans. While full-paying OOS tuition would not financially endanger our future, it is not an insignificant hit to our savings, investments, and future income. We would only qualify for a little aid at the most elite, full-need schools and our senior did not apply because we were looking for merit.
So while we can pay the OOS tuition, we’re not positive that we want to. For fairly frugal people like us, it’s almost extravagant. But it’s a luxury for which we are willing to pay, if we consider it worth the money. I started the thread to hear why others had made the decision to do so.
I’m sure there are lots of other parents like us.
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We did this twice because we could afford it; also because these two particular kids were excited about the OOS opportunity, and not excited about our instate options. They didn’t want to return to New York after college, and the OOS school (W&M) provided them with better employment prospects in the NOVA-DC area, where they wanted to settle, than our state flagship-level schools did. They were quickly hired in their intended fields after graduation and have done well since then. They’re grateful we gave them the opportunity.
Very good points. As I said, I’m not addressing the very rich who are going to spend whatever they see fit. There are very few expensive private or ivy schools, in my opinion as a now decades practicing MD, that justify incurring significant debt vs going to your instate public or out of state public (assuming merit aid that brings the cost close to instate levels). In my opinion what justifies incurring greater debt is a reasonable opportunity at jobs that will provide enough of a return to pay back the debt quickly. That means majoring in STEM or healthcare related fields that will afford well paying jobs in the future in the face of increasing automation and the vanishing jobs that result. There’s only so far your “prestigious” private or ivy degree will take you. The Rutgers mech engineering grad is in a MUCH better position than the UPenn history or Psychology major. The Ramapo or TCNJ nursing grad gets paid just as much as the Villanova nursing grad.
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What you make depends on what you take. At any school.
The ROI on an OOS undergrad business degree from Michigan/Ross or UVA/McIntyre is probably a lot better than Rutgers/Business. OOS engineering from Cal, Michigan or Georgia Tech is probably a better ROI than Rutgers/Engineering.
For art history, not so much.
“Since OOS flagship offered enough to bring it down to the same price, I don’t see a reason to send S to UM or MSU.”
But few OOS publics can exceed UMich even at the same price (some can match in certain majors).
@notinmi:
“Michigan schools in general are treating in state poorly. Several are granting OOS waivers to all accepted, so there is absolutely no benefit to being in state, the charged tuition is the same. Family income over $100k, and in state is effectively a guaranteed $0 in university money. They really don’t want middle class in state kids attending.”
I don’t get this logic.
Because OOS gets OOS waivers, you think you are treated poorly even though you don’t actually have to pay more and you would pick an OOS public even though in most areas, UMich is hard to beat?
OK, let’s change your perspective: Say you live in OH but somehow got enough scholarship to bring UMich to in-state MI costs (extremely difficult to get something like that and with your kid’s stats, no guarantee of admission to UMich either as an OOS applicant).
Would that change anything?
You realize how many people would love to have a state flagship the quality of UMich (with the in-state costs that UMich has and easier in-state admit rate that UMich has), right?
ShortNUKE, another FL parent. My sons friend chose GATech for engineering, and used his prepaid for that school. There was a difference, but maybe $12,000 or less.
BTW, I can understand the desire to move away as well as different schools having different strengths that in-state publics may not have.
I do want to point out that there are options to get away, however (study-abroad, national student exchange, and even visiting student programs at various colleges).
Engineering is probably a lot flatter than business and art history in terms of opportunity variation across schools.
Of course, to a NJ student from a wealthy family, going anywhere but Rutgers or other NJ public is probably reason enough to pay the out of state premium.
Someone rational please tell me if this makes sense?
D1 accepted to Tulane as well as numerous other schools with better FA. Her heart is set on Tulane and they offer her desired Double Major of Neuroscience & Public Health w/ a Pre-med track. Her ultimate goal is to become a Neurosurgeon specializing in research & auto-immune diseases.
The problem is the EFC Tulane expects me to pay. I do not want to take out loans and I do not want her to have to take out loans. My thought was…if she doesn’t find/like another school with a lower EFC, would it make sense for “Me” to do the following after getting her to sign legal documents that she is expected to pay me back. (Gosh, that sounded really harsh after I actually typed it). Lol
Pay off my current mortgage,Pay off my vacation/Rental Property mortgage, leaving me with no bills other than a car note and regular monthly living expenses, freeing up our monthly income to support the expected EFC. Our take home, after taxes is about 72,000 - 30,000 of which would have to go to the EFC. Please…Someone who has more experience with this…Does this even sound practical to anyone else. I don’t owe that much on either mortgage so the there is no tax deductions on the interest paid. I am actually brain dead and so confused with all this college search stuff, sometimes I have to question my sanity.
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Looks like Tulane is too expensive. Best to treat it as a rejection.
@Toeupwms, IMO, no, it doesn’t make sense.
I sometimes think a gap year for kids to work to gain perspective makes sense.
What part doesn’t make sense? Is it the cost of the college or the plan for payment? Just curious. I assumed self pay was better than loans and with the interest rates now, great time to pay off all debt. Should have done it a long time ago, I’m sure.