“Is Boulder worth the premium over two comparably-regarded OOS flagships? She’s never even been there, but from all reports it is heaven on earth so a campus visit isn’t likely to sour her on it. She really doesn’t have a planned career or major in mind, so we consider the three schools to be even in that regard as well.”
Denver resident here. In terms of the academic/education, I think CU/Boulder is pretty typical for what you get in a big, non-elite public flagship. Mostly, you’d be paying more to get a pretty campus, in a pretty town, in a different part of the country, with fun outdoor recreation nearby. Up to you if that’s worth paying for or not.
CU is 50% OOS students, so clearly there’s a market for what they are selling. Large contingents of kids from TX and CA in particular.
Boulder has a few areas where it may be better than the other choices. Engineering, especially aerospace, is tops. The business school is very good, some music majors, one of the bio majors (I think it is molecular).
But I think all those things don’t matter. Engineering at another flagship or even another non-flagship is fine. Comparing a school ranked 75th in English to one ranked 65th or 95th has little meaning. Pick the one you like the best.
It’s okay to pick the most beautiful school in the world and run with the buffaloes.
We live in NJ and the state schools for Physical Therapy were Stockton and Rutgers. Visited both and she hated them both. D accepted to U of Delaware, U of Maryland, U of Florida, Elon and Qunnipiac. Going to eat the OOS tuition but she will have skin in the game to pay for a little. UDEL offering great merit and has a top 10 PT grad school. I am hoping she picks this.
Yup. NJ consistently is a top exporter of state college students – with many winding up in PA, MD and DE. Other big exporter states are CA, TX and IL.
Schools like UDEL (two-thirds OOS) and CU/Boulder (50% OOS) know how to net price their OOS product to be competitive in the market. Either with a fairly reasonable OOS sticker price and/or ample merit aid.
Except for the very high end publics like UVA and UMich, there’s probably not all that many families actually paying an OOS net price of $60k versus $20-25k at Home State U. More likely, families are choosing to spend an extra $10-15k a year for a situation that they like better. Not all that much different than choosing paying a bit more for an appealing private school.
Note that there are also out-of-state publics that may not be the designated flagships, but have low out-of-state list prices (sometimes lower than in-state publics in some states) and appeal to specific types of students. Examples include South Dakota School of Mines and Technology, University of Minnesota - Morris, and Truman State University.
My D was accepted to WashU yesterday. She has also been accepted to UVA and UMich. Assuming these are the choices (she is waiting for a bunch more). WashU has been the only school thus far to give us some FA, so the cost is about the same as UVA and UM for OOS. So for the same price, do you go to one of these amazing publics or an elite private? As I mentioned before, I have a hard time swallowing that OOS price for the publics, but I guess if that is where she feels most comfortable I shouldn’t think about what the IS students are paying.
Sure. Colo School of Mines is another example. Fine engineering school that’s not at a big state flagship. 45% OOS enrollment, and here’s why.
In-state sticker price is fairly high – $30k. OOS sticker is $49k. But Mines hands out a lot of OOS merit awards. So a smart kid can often pay a $35k OOS net price for a very HQ boutique engineering school. Not dirt cheap, but a good cost/value deal that many will choose.
All of this is so subjective. This is just my opinion. I take the position that no private or public that costs more than the mid to upper 30’s net price for tuition fees and board is worth it unless you are wealthy (rich) enough to afford it. Assuming you are majoring in engineering or some other STEM area, the only schools that may offer you an appreciable advantage upon graduation and getting that first job and higher pay are Caltech and MIT. Incurring significant debt and paying full pay for a liberal arts degree is not a wise move, even for an ivy education. That ivy degree in psychology will look great on the wall while you struggle to dig out of debt. Our kids need to get degrees in areas where the well paying jobs will be and they need to limit debt. Everyone will give you their 5 cents on this issue. Let’s say your kid is majoring in electrical and computer engineering and has a choice of going to TCNJ @30k, Lehigh @65k or Stevens @74k and you have to pay full price. Unless you are wealthy, I say you’re insane if you go to Lehigh or Stevens and burying yourself and your kid in debt
If she gets merit aid from U Del that brings the cost down to the level of Stockton or Rutgers, then I say go for it. If you’re paying full price for UDel at about 45k out of state, then you are crazy. That DPT degree she gets at UDel will not get her a higher starting salary than if she went to Stockton or Rutgers or some other expensive private school, just like a nursing degree from Villanova or an Ivy League school will not translate into a higher salary than if you went to an instate public for nursing. Debt is NOT worth it
@njdadjets your continued denigration of psychology as a major is getting tiring. Not every kid is cut out to be an engineer or work in a medical or computer science field (thank goodness!). STEM careers are not the only way to earn a decent living! My eldest is earning a degree in secondary education. My DD2018 is planning to major in psychology with the intention of working in forensic psychology/forensic science (possible minor). Maybe go to law school, maybe not. I am confident both of my kids will be able to find employment post graduation. Just like their liberal arts degreed mom did. No school is worth a mountain of debt, regardless of the major (STEM or not), period.
If you are full-pay at a private (or don’t get everything paid for through fin aid) or full-pay OOS at a public, there will always be someone paying less than you.
If someone else pays in-state tuition for the same education, just count them fortunate to reside in the right state (though their tax dollars also go to that public while your’s don’t).
@HappyNJOOS One of my twins can go to UMD and Penn State for over $40k or Rutgers for under $8k. I know which choice he (and mom and dad) is making! A private college is still an option and one school end of March. His twin was also offered a scholarship to Rutgers, both NB. Accepted student day soon for Rutgers and TCNJ.
Most college decisions get driven by the basic/fundamental math of the ratio of price to value/prestige. Yield on UVA in-state admission offers is 58%. UVA OOS offers is 22%. QED.
USNWR rates WashU at 18, UVA at 25 and UMich at 28. For you, they all cost the same. So to my eyes, the ratio is pretty much in the same ballpark. Although you could argue the ratio for WashU is a bit better (if you want to split hairs).
If your kid was getting a full tuition schollie at WashU, then the ratio would be strongest there. If you had in-state tuition at UMich or UVA, then that would be the best ratio clearly.
If the ratio does not point strongly, then pick the school your kid likes the most and where you think the kid will do the best. M vs. L vs. XL sized school. Private vs. public. D1 college sports vs. D3. City vs. country. Etc.
We live in PA- instate tuition at PSU is not cheap and other then small merit scholarships for the honors program they give no merit money. DS got about half tuition merit at IU- where he is in Kelley- a top ranked business school. We pay less for him to go there than we would at PSU. DD is a senior- currently has great merit offer at Binghamton making it much more affordable than PSU. (She has not decided on a school yet).
And without a terminal degree PhD that degree in forensic psychology will make you competitive for a very small number of relatively low paying jobs related to the actual field of study. I’m not denigrating the major. It’s just a fact that a liberal arts degree will not result in a $ return justifying taking huge debt to attend an expensive private or out of state public. Major in psychology all you want, but do it at the school with the lowest net cost
U Delaware and Binghamton are good value for out of state students from NJ or other States with high SATs and gpas due to the generous merit aid they give that bring the cost more in line with jersey publics. Penn State not as good—- pricy for out of state
Older D stayed instate at her first choice school ( our state has no flagship - it has 4 universities and many colleges). Her school is very strong in her major… lots of professional opportunities…and cost us very little ( relatively speaking) even as a full pay family. It did not make any sense to send her to schools such as U Del, Rutgers etc… all fabulous schools but would be more than twice the price. The only difference would have been sports, a bigger town, etc. The educational and professional experiences at those OOS flagships would not have given her more than what she has instate. The fact that this was her first choice school made the process easier.
Other D is a different kid altogether. We looked at our top state school as one of her safety schools. We looked at this school three times… all three times I knew it was not for her but kept my mouth shut ( a great school by the way and one that has been mentioned on this thread). This school is not easy to get into… getting in EA requires nearly a 4.0 and very high scores. She applied and got into the Scholars Program during the EA round.
She goes to a top five OOS flagship. Why? Well… she had zero interest in applying to the Ivies ( scared of the possible stress, she knew 17 kids at one), some of the top privates ( still can be very stressful) offered her much less $, and she really … really …loved the vibe at the OOS publics. Her school feels like… and is… her home. We pay more than what we would pay had she stayed instate… but less than the private schools she applied to.
What does she have at her OOS flagship? Well… she has what her friends at some of the top privates have… and more ( one had no internship last summer):
she is friends with her professors and socializes with them (dinner, etc)
she is surrounded by very, very smart students
she has a collaborative environment and has reduced her anxiety ( this is huge)
she has been involved in research since her freshman year ( this would have been difficult at our top state school)
she presented at a multi-school conference and met people from all over the world
she worked at a top facility and presented her work to people from all over the country
she works with somebody from a renown institution ( this would likely not happen instate)
she has made friends from all over the country and world ( this would have been less likely instate)
she has a lot to do socially… activities, speakers, volunteering etc
I firmly believe … and am experiencing… that some top public schools have what is found at some top privates. I also believe that despite providing a good, solid education… D would not have the same experience had she stayed instate ( a great school by the way). We have several close friends and family members at our top instate school, and many acquaintances… we could not find anybody whose research experiences mirror D’s. We could not find anybody at all…involved in research. Many instate schools ( like ours) are excellent… solid schools…while others …are over the top …outstanding. My opinion, my experience.
I haven’t seen it pop-up so I wanted to mention to look at how likely your student is to graduate in 4 years at an oos university. Some are quite open in saying it’ll take extra quarters or semesters. That adds to the cost greatly for an oos student.
Of course, not all oos public’s are more expensive. We know several kids in OOS public’s that are paying equivalent to a UC tuition, room and board. Our eldest applied to one OOS public and was accepted with enough scholarship and aid to make it competitive. She opted for an LAC but I was surprised at the affordability. I’m sure it all depends on what state you are coming from.
126 forget that they're public. Compare the actual schools. UVA, UMich, and WashU are all OUTSTANDING schools for many things. If prices are similar, focus on which school your kid likes the most. Who cares if one happens to be public vs. private. These three will have very different feels so a good chance to play Goldi Locks.
UVA and UMich are tow publics that many would pay more for (if able) . A degree form any of them will help across all industries. It shows a kid was “good enough” to get in (knocks down a lot of walls in and of itself) and “good enough” to complete a degree from a highly competitive school. Trust me, that means something to employers regardless of field.
(anticipating the push back from others - yes I know you can do well from anywhere. I did too. But, having done well and knowing how the world works, these are better - highly ranked, highly sought after, highly everything - than most flagships)