I’ve been watching this thread with the expectation of facing the same issue, and now we are: UCLA in-state (which S18 prefers to Berkeley) vs UVA (with Echols) or W&M (with Monroe) OOS.
S18 wants to do Political Science and end up in DC, so we have to consider if OOS tuition (i.e. another $30K pa) is worth it for the location/alumni network and perks of Echols (particularly no pre-requisites) or Monroe (at a small liberal arts-like college). Not an easy decision.
“the public schools you mention are elite at the GRADUATE level where there funding and finances are much more in line with elite private universities. The problem is that the undergraduate experience is heading downhill as they try and shore up a lack of state funding with larger classes, smaller budgets etc. So no I would not ever pay OOS rates for a public university at the undergraduate level.”
Michigan’s Ross School is “elite” at the undergrad level.
@rickle1 WashU is a private school in St. Louis, but if you are referring to University of Washington, it has so many issues that it is no where near an elite public.
^^^I realize WashU is a private. I was a poster’s chosing between it and UVA / UMich. They were struggling with the concept of paying for a UVA / UMich vs. a WashU (all similar prices) compared to in state flagship. S in, I’m OK with paying for WashU but not sure about UVA because it’s a state school. My point was, who cares if it’s a state school, It’s UVA, an amazing place (same for UMich.) and quite different than most state flagships in MANY ways.
UVA will open doors in DC.
After running the NPC and visiting over the summer, she understood that she would have to receive merit aid. She did receive 32k. She has also rec’d a Star Student Scholarship and two others; however those are all related to our State and will not go toward out of state colleges. Our Prepaid Tuition plan can also only be applied to Tuition, not room/board/fees.
@barrons (and others), a colleague whose son attended NC State told me that the Dean had all out of state parents stand up at the welcoming convocation. Asked in state parents to give OOS parents a round of applause because they were paying the full freight and keeping costs low for in state students. I don’t find it unfair that instate pays/ gets charged less. That is what their tax system supports. It is a matter of being a consumer, and deciding what that value is to you, and whether you want to pay for it. OP asked about paying full freight for OOS Flagships. My response is that I don’t see why you would go full pay for an OOS flagship when you have a similar program available instate. If we didn’t have excellent low cost alternatives in state, it wouldn’t be an issue. I would have to pay for it somewhere. So, in VickSoCal’s situtation, that seems like a perfectly good alternative.
So what was that in-state school she did not want to?
Some OOS flagships that meet full need have an out of state student association ( or a variation of that name) that provides grants to OOS students. The money does not come from taxpayers of that state… it comes from the generous contributions of OOS alumni and is specifically set up for OOS students.
I would only pay a slight premium for an OOS school perhaps about 40 percent of what my cost on instate would be. Some considerations would be strength of program. Direct admit to choice major. Setting, Reputation, etc. I would never consider DEBT and obviously Merit has to be a big part of it in order to make affordable.
As it is, I ended up applying to 8 state Flagship schools including one in my own state. Once I got into my in state Flagship, I knew all along that , all the other 7 OOS would have to come through financially. I was accepted to 6 out of the 7. Two of the schools did not offer any merit which disqualified them right away. Another two, although affordable, were considered safeties. By the end of the process, I will be choosing to go OOS on a full tuition scholarship to what I think is the better choice to my In State.
I would never consider paying full tuition to Michigan or UVA.
To each his own…
You need to experience these schools first hand in order to understand what they have to offer and how truly outstanding they are. Are they the right fit for everybody? Of course not… no school is.
There are a lot of outstanding schools out there and just because they are Michigan, Virginia, Georgia Tech or the like, it does not mean that you could not get an outstanding education at Ohio State, Maryland, or any other state Flagship… By the end of the day, all these Flagships schools offer so many opportunities including my own in state school. It all comes down to what you make out of it… By the way, I am not bashing any of these top tier state schools. I am sure they are worth of their ranking and prestige. However, they are not worth the OOS full price for undergrad Chances are that you are able to get into any of these top tier schools, the student probably go into the next lower tier of schools along with some nice scholarships to boost. I want to go OOS, but only for a small premium. As it is , it will probably be cheaper. But yes… “to each his own”
I agree 100% that an outstanding education could be achieved at schools such as Ohio State and Maryland etc. No disagreement here.
I understand that some of you have the opinion that no school is worth full price, and that’s a very reasonable school of thought. However, is any school worth full price? And if the answer yes, is there a benefit to paying full price for an elite/private v. a flagship public. A public is still a public and faces budgetary challenges that a well funded elite/ivy may not. Larger classes? Less support? Lower level dorms/food? Another concern is publics have a very large number of in state students, so you have a concentration of students from one area as well as a student body with somehwat diluted academic abilities as in state admission is typically a lower standard than out of state. Look, I think many publics are amazing, but I am just trying to weigh the pros and cons and possibly turning down an elite private for a flagship public isn’t sitting well with me. I guess at the end of the day it just comes down to where you child feels most comfortable and whether you as a parent feel that overall you are getting the right value for your money.
If an elite private is a better fit for the student… and it’s affordable… go for it!
One of the Ivies accepts a lot of kids from our HS. My daughter knows 17 (maybe more) at the school and 5 live on the same floor. Obviously a great school…but you will not escape your HS peers.
As I mentioned earlier… some top publics match the experiences of top privates. Again… my experience, my opinion.
“Look, I think many publics are amazing, but I am just trying to weigh the pros and cons and possibly turning down an elite private for a flagship public isn’t sitting well with me.”
There are “elite” flagship publics too. Not all “flagship publics” are amazing. Actually very few are. Lumping them all together is not reasonable.
Private schools also have a larger concentration of ‘local’ students. Rice has more students from Texas than other states. Harvard has more from New England (an area much smaller than Texas) than other areas of the country.
Not every OOS flagship costs more than the in state option. If someone from Philly doesn’t want to go to Penn State, UDel might prove to be a good financial option even at full pay. A student might not get accepted to UF but still want a flagship, so pays full price for Ole Miss. Texas kids not in the top 7% might opt for U of Arizona/ASU.
If people stop going to OOS flagships, UVM would go out of business.
“Private schools also have a larger concentration of ‘local’ students.”
To an extent. And obviously it varies. Duke’s #1 state for undergrads is NC, at 13% of students. UNC = 82%.
“If people stop going to OOS flagships, UVM would go out of business.”
Along with UMich, UDel, CU/Boulder, VMI, SD Mines, Charleston, Bama, Ole Miss and many others. Some of those are often full pay deals (UMich and UVA), many are not. Just like some privates are often full pay zones (Duke) and some are not (Tulane).
End of the day, an OOS public is just one of many college options in the market to choose from. They are priced (both sticker price and net price) and branded to compete with other OOS publics and with privates too.
Would I ever full pay for an OOS public? Maybe. Depends on what my alternatives are and how much cash I have to spend.
“However, is any school worth full price?” Assuming anyone can afford it, yes, the Ivy Leagues, Stanford, and MIT…Otherwise, I just do not see the a reason why anyone would pay $50K OOS tuition for an OOS Public schools such as Michigan or UVA. Yes, these are Elite public Universities, but I just cant see why anyone would pay that kind of money. But plenty of wealthy people out there who might not care about money and they can afford anything in the world. For the regular Joe, it might not be the smartest decision.
Interesting to see many people on these boards who are able to to get into MIchigan or UVA as OOS students, but would choose to go to Alabama for free…If these kids are smart enough to get into Michigan, they should be able to succeed and do well at Alabama. Sure, Alabama might not be as prestigious, but the amount of savings is nothing to sneeze at. I bet they find lots of high achievers at Alabama
Colorado, Michigan, Alabama have enough instate students to fill the seats if the OOS students stopped attending. There would be some shifting of budgets and perhaps instate tuition would go up to Penn State levels, but the schools wouldn’t go out of business. Vermont doesn’t have the instate bodies to fill the school. UNC has 82% because that’s what the state law requires.