hey, so throughout this process my parents have helped me a lot and have offered their opinions and suggestions which I really appreciate. however, I do want the ultimate decisions to be made by me, except for anything regarding money.
I have had my heart set on applying ED to Barnard college since the spring, but I just have not really expressed it in plain terms. Barnard and Tufts were the final 2 choices I was considering for ED and my parents want me to choose Tufts because they think Barnard has no value except for its Columbia connection and location, but I value the focus on empowering women, diverse and less “nerdy” student body, and values that Barnard holds i.e. leadership, initiative, and political activism (not just awareness) and I really think everything about Barnard vibes with me. I also think the location and CU connection are valuable assets. I do love tufts but would not be able to commit to ED. the money is not an issue here, but my parents have been speaking in “private” as though I will ED tufts- without letting me in on this assumption.
I gently suggested Barnard ED to my mom today and she freaked out so long story short I need advice on how to convince my parents (whom I love but they are quick to judge and to take extreme positions against things that don’t go how they want) AND WITHIN a couple of days since I have a week left.
A parental pov and a strategy suggestion –
I would be reluctant to pay for a university for my child if I had reservations about the institution. While I do not think your parents should push to apply to Tufts or any other university where you do not want to go, I do think it is incumbent on you to explain why Barnard is the best for you. You should make your case by explaining in detail what you would be getting at Barnard – programs, NYC, etc. (I haven’t been to Tufts, but isn’t that a completely different type of setting?) Without saying it outright, you need to get them to realize that their position is extreme (assuming it is as you say.) That is where the strategy comes in. One week for ED may not be enough time. You may have to get off the ED track and just go regular admissions, and that will give you a few months to bring them around.
I agree with both @happy1 and @bookguy . I’m not familiar with what Barnard’s supplements are, but I’m assuming that they have at least one. I know for a fact that Tufts has three very difficult supplements, and in general, schools can tell when you haven’t put thought into them; therefore I think if you truly could end up applying to one or the other* ED, then start preparing your supplements for each school so you are ready for whatever outcome your discussion with your parents garners.
*in the event that you are not sure whether you can or cannot sway them away from Tufts and might end up having to apply to Barnard ED, or vice versa
Do your parents understand that Barnard women are awarded a degree from Columbia - and that course enrollment and activities are fully integrated? (As is the University-wide commencement ceremony – not that it matters in the long run - but I am puzzled as how someone could think an Ivy-affiliated college “has no value except for” it’s connection to the Ivy league school).
If so… can you find out from them exactly what their discomfort is with Barnard?
My daughter is a Barnard alum… while I don’t have any specific knowledge about Tufts, I can’t imagine what Tufts could offer that Barnard doesn’t, other than perhaps specific majors (for example, engineering) but you didn’t mention anything along those lines. So I am thinking that there is something missing in this picture about what your parents want and expect – and maybe getting to the root of that will help you talk to them.
I agree that OP should state in plain terms what has been said in the original post, as well as the benefits of having access to NYC and a degree from Columbia. I would also add that you do not want to apply ED to Tufts, as it is not your top choice. Applying to any school other than a top choice is unethical. Do they want you to be unethical? I am in favor of you applying ED if it is your clear first choice above all others. I alos suggest doing a bit of research on the college to show your parents, inlcuding info from a website like Pay Scale, so,that they will understand it is a viable option.
I agree with the posters here that you need to explain your position to your parents. But first, perhaps they could explain theirs to you. It’ll give you a chance to correct misconceptions, but also to understand their concerns.
You may want to try to revisit both, with your parents, and that may or may not be before the ED date. You’re asking them to keep an open mind, so you should too. At the same time, it is your life and your education.
Tufts is in a residential area of the CITY of Somerville, which is adjacent to the CITY of Cambridge which are all across the river from the CITY of Boston. That said, it’s not New York City. My son went to Tufts and there is lots to like about it, but Barnard has I think a really unique position in being able to offer both the advantages of a women’s college with those of a largish research university.
I disagree that there is anything unethical about applying ED to a college that is not your top choice. People make strategic choices all the time. If for example you knew you could be happy at either location, but thought you were likely to get into Tufts ED you might decide to apply there with Barnard RD as a fall back.
Do your parents realize that Barnard has only regular ED, but Tufts has both and ED 1 and an ED2? You could apply to Barnard and if you don’t get in apply to Tufts ED2.
The area around Tufts is suburban in comparison to the area around Barnard. That’s all I meant. It’s not suburban in comparison to, say, Princeton or Cornell.
Like @mathmom, I disagree that there is anything unethical about this. All you’re doing when you apply ED is saying that you will attend the school if admitted. It does not have to be your top choice. I know of cases where students realized that they would be equally pleased to attend any of several colleges but chose one of them for ED because ED gives you an admissions advantage. This is not unethical.
It seems your parents don’t know that much about Barnard. Barnard is, in my world, prestigious in its own right, one of the Seven Sisters, and its relationship to Columbia has always been much like Radcliffe was to Harvard. But now a Barnard degree is from Columbia. It is an exciting part of NYC and very convenient.
There is crime in the Tufts area. Morningside Heights is very safe these days.
I cannot imagine why your parents would resist Barnard. Tufts is great too but honestly, if you want Barnard, I don’t understand their attitudes.
This should be your decision simply because it’s your life and you are competent to make this decision.
I agree with those that say do not under any circumstances apply ED to Tufts. You simply cannot cave in here or you’ll never get to make your own decision about anything in your life. Frankly, I don’t think you should apply to Tufts at all if your parents won’t let you apply to Barnard ED.
I could go into all the great things about Barnard or Tufts (Tufts neighborhood is just fine), but they are irrelevant.
Barnard degrees have always been issued by Columbia. There has never been a time that Barnard operated as a stand-alone independent college – it has always been a semi-autonomous college operating under the umbrella of Columbia.
Those perceptions may have had some foundation in reality if she was applying when I graduated from HS in the mid-'90s or earlier when the area/NYC was coming off the tail end of the high crime era(late '60s till early-mid-'90s), but that’s no longer the case as Morningside Heights is very safe for the last decade at least.
Moreover, there are some sketchy areas in the Sommerville/Medford area near Tufts…but nothing to worry about too much as with both locations, safety is mainly a matter of knowing one’s surroundings, being alert, etc.
Academically, the only major difference I can think of off the top of my head which would influence a student towards Tufts is if the applicant concerned had a strong interest in natural sciences or engineering as Barnard doesn’t have engineering and the natural sciences tend to be regarded as stronger at Tufts if one didn’t want to transfer to Columbia College/SEAS.
This factor was a reason why one older cousin transferred out of Barnard to Cornell after a year in the early '90s.
Funny seeing the above statement considering I knew of many Barnard undergrads…who chose to apply and attend Barnard precisely because of its connection to Columbia U.
They also emphasize that connection by listing something like BA, Columbia University without mentioning Barnard on their Linked-In pages and resumes.
A behavior I found to be a bit odd considering when I was graduating from HS in the mid-'90s and earlier, Barnard was HARDER TO GAIN ADMISSION TO by minimum GPA stats than Columbia SEAS.
One needed a minimum of ~90/100+ cumulative average for the former whereas I knew of many HS classmates who were being admitted to Columbia SEAS with GPAs as low as the mid-high 80s/100. Don’t know if any female classmates used admission to Columbia SEAS as an effective backdoor to Barnard in the same manner many HS classmates from my public magnet or comparable STEM-centered public magnets did to eventually get into Columbia College*…but it wouldn’t surprise me if it happened considering the disparity in admission difficulty back then.
This was in a period when one could transfer from Columbia SEAS to Barnard/Columbia by maintaining good academic standing for one year and then effect a transfer by filing some pro-forma internal transfer paperwork which was treated little more than a formality in practice. Columbia U eliminated this sometime in the early '00s likely to eliminate this loophole which was an effective open secret with many students from STEM-centered public magnets like BxScience and Stuyvesant.
As a parent I can’t help but feel that this should be a decision made together – unless the OP is not counting on any financial support from her parents. Fortunately H and I have the type of relationship with our kids where are able to sit down and discuss things rationally. In both cases we independently came out with the top choice of college which did make life easy. I would never force a child to go to a school he/she didn’t like but if I had any strong objections that could not be satisfied I would expect them to be paid attention to as well.
That said, Barnard sounds like an amazing choice for you and I do hope you can sway your parents. Or else I would not apply anywhere ED.
