Did not aggressively criticize career path, choice of spouse, choice of house, etc. Aggressive criticism is not my jam.
My kids are employed- somewhat paradoxically- in jobs which their undergrad degrees did not prepare them for in any way, shape or form, and were out-earning their “corporate life” parents before they were 30. (not including stock options. And one kid was an early employee of a company which had a successful IPO).
I am a big believer in the market. Your kid not good enough to play cello for the Cleveland Symphony? There are plenty of inflection points along the way where experts in music are going to give your kid that message- with no sugar coating. Your kid is a talented weekend athlete but not good enough to go pro? God knows there are lots of opportunities for a smart kid to hear that from coaches, watch competitors, etc. Your kid who struggles with foreign languages wants to major in Asian Studies and then join the CIA? The very first career fair at her college- where the very nice CIA recruiter explains that they hire people fluent in Farsi, Mandarin, Korean, Arabic or Punjab…which box does she check? There you go.
My kids got lots of clear and straightforward messages from “the market”. They didn’t need me raining on their parade. I for sure would have told one kid that the current job was WAY beyond the comfort zone- but guess what- I was wrong. I would have told a different kid that the current job would not yield a livable salary- and with kids to boot- and guess what- I was wrong.
So go figure. And I hire people for a living!!!
I did encourage the kids to put off grad school for a few years- and they listened. Somehow, professional goals change once you are in the working world and the stardust of campus starts to dissipate!!! And a few years of having to pay the bills (and see how little is left over) has a wonderful way of focusing the mind before putting in those grad school applications.
Aggressively? No
Hinted at him maybe not being the next Edgar Allan Poe or JRR Tolkien and made comments like “you can teach, too”? Yes
Worried privately to each other that he’ll starve to death? Absolutely!
No, my daughter wanted to be a math teacher since about 5th grade .I did make sure she majored in math so she had options, and then she got a masters in math education. She is now fulfilling her dream of teaching internationally (she loves to travel).
The other one wanted to be a doctor…so we supported that/nudged. She ended up finishing all pre-med courses but deciding Med School wasn’t for her. So she is considering other health field options at the moment.
@CMB625 – the daughter of my best friend is getting her MFA in theater. The program is filled with people in their late 30s, 40s and even 50s – former actors who want a steady paycheck. The MFA will make them attractive for selective private schools and eligible to teach on a college level. (More exploited adjuncts, I’m afraid…)
No. I don’t want them to be my clones, they should make their own decisions and learn from their own mistakes. There are no absolute right or wrong decisions. Well intentioned meddler parents are the biggest killer of creativity and talent in this world.
My kids regularly ask for my advice, so in that context I’ll say if something doesn’t seem like a great fit or have concerns. I wouldn’t volunteer without being asked, I make a point to be gentle with suggestions, and I often suggest they run it by a mentor before deciding.
My dad was critical of my career choices. The best thing I ever did was ignore him, honestly. I wish I’d ignored him more on my choice of major in college.
What’s with all the theater kids. So my BFA in theater design daughter actually changed her career path but still had a theater component. She told us she will use her creativity in different ways and she has. Still a junior.
Agressivley no. But I did tell her she will not work as a waitress and being a starving theater person. That’s to cliché. She agreed. Also she understands the cost of her education. She has worked a few times professionally in LA on a movie set and on Chicago, where we live, on some productions. She really understands that you can work in theater but your big break might never come. But working a few jobs you can make a living but it’s competitive.
To the theater and dance parents. They need a backup plan. I treat athletes and performers. In 30 years I have one kid at Juilliard and she was a national dance champion at 13. She has worked with a New York and California choreographer yearly and her parent’s own the Dance group that travels within the United States.
I have also witnessed kids going from a performance high schools to dance companies. These were not just normal dance kids, trust me.
It’s a very rare kid from acting that gets steady work and community theater doesn’t pay much. I also known of the kids that go from high school to New York and one was in the Chicago production of Hamilton. Again, he was like a star at 15 at a performing arts high school and well coached. Again… Very rare. Have a back up plan. Living at poverty levels is not a career.
A few years back (it was like 5th or 6th grade… long before any kid should have to worry about these things), I outright told DD that if she was going to major in music or theater that she should plan to pay for her own college education. To be fair, she was at an age when a somewhat satisfactory 15-minute instrument practice and orchestra stardom seemed totally compatible. DH and I happily paid for lessons, coaching, and minor local competitions, but we all knew we’d be drawing the line at a $250K+ college degree. DD ended up dropping band, but still does stand-up comedy and improv. She now realizes her participation is a side hobby, and not a viable career path.
Having said that, DD has a lot of friends who plan to study music and theater. They’re all very, very good. All but one of them is planning on getting a teaching certification in addition to a fine arts degree. The one holdout has stardom scheduled for right after graduation. Her parents are now giving her the Major-in-music/theater-and-plan-to-pay-for-your-own-education speech. It’s a lot harder to swallow as a high schooler than as a 5th or 6th grader.
Sometimes a backup plan IS performance. I know a producer of industrial/training films. No, he’s not Steven Spielberg. He makes a nice living, he uses his craft/training every single day, he is both left and right brained and since film was and is his true passion- how great that someone didn’t talk him out of it. I know a few actors who support themselves nicely with voice-over and other commercial work. Again- it’s not Shakespeare at the Globe Theater, but an honest living, interacting with interesting people in the creative community, perfecting their craft AND being able to work past middle age when so many stage and film performers are “too old” to be cast.
What’s wrong with waitressing btw? Helped me pay for an MBA…
One of mine is almost through a doctorate in music. Along the way there have been internships and jobs running festivals on the campuses she has attended. Not sure what will happen eventually, and 20’s for doctorate means reduced income for a decade, but at the same time, it’s just so wonderful.
I would have to differentiate “career” from “job.” I am proud of another one of mine who has worked all kinds of low paid, difficult jobs without complaint and always nice to coworkers and customers. I am sure she will find her way.
Third one is software engineer- saw that coming at age 3. Legos are binary
My husband’s dad criticized his major…he wanted to do history or poli sci or something and go to law school, but his Dad pushed him for a practical major. He switched to Accounting and is a CPA and executive these days.
Yes- with your I don’t like it added comment as qualifier.
Gifted son was getting an honors math degree but cancelled graduation to add/finish the second major in CS (affordable at flagship plus was ahead two grades) after overreaching for math grad schools in that brutal field. He chose to not reapply to lesser ranked math grad schools but looked for CS jobs instead- a surprise to his parents who always assumed someone with his abilities would do grad work. He ended up working in CS and doing quite well- intellectually stimulated so far, well liked by peers it seems plus self sufficient. Looking at what happens to math PhDs it may be a blessing since know of some with superb credentials who did not find US based jobs.
Son has told us a masters is not needed (who are we to argue with a knows everything/we know nothing kid?). He is into development, not research, so it does make sense. Has done a lot of self teaching and I can see where sitting in a classroom being bored won’t help. He had done grad level math classes for his honors degree so he did experience that world a bit. It has taken a few years but we have adjusted to his not going further in school. I trust him to continue to do what he wants.
Niece with a music performance scholarship and degree ended up working a nonperformance job for an orchestra then later switched to some nonmusic organization. Being good in music versus being at the top is different than so many professions where society needs so many more competent individuals. She also did not continue performing- there is a lot of practice time involved even in lesser organizations. Her H runs a studio. For her following her passion was a way for a humanities bachelor’s degree, smart but not in love with STEM.
Parental learning curve. Kids do not always follow a path you imagined for them, regardless of ability. You have to trust that they know what they like/want better than you did.
Oh- and frugal kid does not spend his large income. He did not go into the field for the money. He did, however, pick something practical that involved his interests. That was a surprise since he like theoretical as opposed to applied math.
While I don’t like the word choice of “criticize”, I have certainly let all three of my children know what I am willing to pay for an what I am not willing to pay for with regards to college.
I view college as an investment that will hopefully allow them to live a comfortable lifestyle. There are too many majors that I consider poor choices and would as such fund such majors in college. While some of these are wonderful and exciting (lets say music); I will not defer to an 18-year-old as to what is a wise investment in their future.
It may sound harsh to some and certainly not the path that others might choose but frankly, it’s my money and I will pay for some things and not pay for others.
I think it better to have a disappointed 18-year-old than a disappointed 28-year-old that has frittered away a decade chasing an unrealistic goal.
FlaParent. College is an education, not just an investment in a kid’s future. Most people will not end up with a job specific to their major, especially outside of STEM fields. Be open to majors- a bachelor’s degree in anything can lead to jobs. Your probable definition of “comfortable” worries me. Being able to be self sufficient, pay bills, afford a family is good, needing an upper middleclass lifestyle is not.
D’s plan was to major in English. I was a bit miffed at the family members who made negative comments about that. I believe there are many successful career paths for someone with a good work ethic and a degree in English. The world needs more than just STEM majors. Now she’s double majoring in Public Health and Environmental Studies and minoring in English, which was her choice based on changing interests. But I had no problem with her majoring in English at the time.
S wants to major in Civil Engineering. I’m pretty worried about him because while he’s very very bright, he does not put forth a great deal of effort into his schoolwork, and his grades aren’t very impressive. I’ve talked with him about other interests he has and asked if he has considered other options due to the difficulty of engineering, but he is just set on it 100%. I don’t want to convey that I’m not confident of his abilities - he’s got the chops - so I’ll just cross my fingers that he kicks into gear when he gets to college.
Let’s say I was “more open” to my kids aspirations and where they wanted to go because my parents were not. I made the mistake of not following my own inclinations and instead let my parents influence me way too much. It turned out okay but I would’ve been happier I think if I’d done what I wanted to.
Post # 37. Do not worry about your kid and doing well in college. It is amazing how much kids can do when interested in something. Motivation will do the trick for him. HS can be boring for good students, some willingly do the work while others don’t bother. Getting lesser grades than he could may mean not getting into his preferred school/engineering program. Too late now I suspect. I have noticed that ability and willingness to work insanely hard are two different things. Many gifted people choose to do as much as they want while others will work a lot harder and go further. But, they have different life journeys in mind.
