I have not (though maybe my kids will say otherwise), though others have. My oldest is studying a Elementary Education. So many people (including my friends who are teachers) tell her not to do it. But it is what she’s always wanted, and if kids like her don’t do it, who will teach the next generation?
My youngest starts in the fall as a Theater Management major. She never wanted to perform, she wants to bring Theater to underserved populations.
Both kids are bright and if they change their minds, they will find a career. I’m not worried. There are tons of careers that don’t require a specific major but do require common sense, competence, curiosity, and the ability to learn. (Edited to add that I recognize that there is privilege implied here).
Both kids are clear-eyed and fully aware that they won’t make big incomes. I take that as a sign that we’ve raised them to recognize that “success” can be measured in ways other than dollars.
Frugality does mean more career options. A frugal person will find a larger range of incomes (specifically a lower minimum income level) to be livable than a spendy person.
@blossom. There is nothing with being a waitress. I don’t want the clan to come down on me here but I was being more cliché… Being an actress, going to New York. Can’t find a job… Being a waitress. Repeat till your in your 30’s etc.
My daughter can still make it in the theater production world if she wants to.She has both the talent and “connections”. She worked on a production over her winter break for extra money, that is touring now. . Most of the production kids do get jobs and can support themselves. The actors /dancers are a dime a dozen and it’s more connections then talent. Every once in awhile someone does get lucky but again it’s very rare.
My daughter is a barista part time while working her way first to her BA then she’s talking masters/ PhD. This is just a better life choice for her.
If she really wanted to be a server professionally then she would of went to Kendall college or the like and they make a nice living in a good restraunt.
Right up his alley and it’s a great kick start for him. My son did it and it’s impressive. They set the kids up almost one on one with an engineering mentor and it’s in civil etc. They work in teams to complete projects. In Chicago these were world class companies. Looks great on a college application and it’s a lot of fun and he will learn what engineering is all about. Pm me with questions if needed. It builds confidence and he will see his competition is not slacking. Great motivator.
My company has had great success hiring those waiters/actors for front-line roles. Sales, recruiting, learning and development, employee relations to name a few. They all have a few things in common:
1- A college degree. Sad to say, but if you want a professional role with a big corporation with advancement opportunities-- you need at least a Bachelor’s.
2- Tons of hustle AND the work ethic that goes along with that. I had a recruiter working for me at one point who was just voracious- if everyone else was conducting 10 phone interviews a day, he was conducting 15. If the rest of the team went to 3 networking events a month, he’d have done 8, plus a regional job fair.
3- Great writing skills.
4- Hugely empathetic. Able to build relationships up, down, sideways both inside and outside the company. This is really critical in learning and development- you may be leading a large lecture with hands-on workshops for employees learning a new software package on Monday, moderating a panel on #me too for executives on Tuesday, and training new hires on compliance policies on Wednesday. Being able to connect with your audience is key- most companies do the rote “training” type of stuff online anyway now, and it’s self-paced. So the training that is done in traditional formats (person at the front, audience in the back, or small group sessions) is the stuff that is sensitive in nature, or mission critical (like compliance), or able to troubleshoot quickly on your toes (like a software conversion). Hence- actors. All that improv pays off.
None of my kids had any artistic talent to speak of, but I would not have discouraged them from pursuing a passion if they had, as long as they had the temperament to live like a student for many years AND do the waiter/barista thing.
“aggressively criticize”? No. Providing her our point of view and reasoning, yes.
D is a humanity student. Fine. With a not popular major. OK. Then, she wants to pursue her career path in a very narrow path which also “won’t make any money” (her own words). It’s time for some discussion…
We’ve pointed out to her that while she is very fortunate that she will graduate (undergrad) without any debts, she is expected to make a living while she plans to pursue a master and a Ph D.
We support her to pursue her dream but we don’t hesitate to remind her of reality, too…
Career paths evolve and often change abruptly. They don’t necessarily proceed uninterrupted. They don’t always have a clear trajectory.
Never mind. I’ve used this analogy before on this discussion board: careers these days are less like climbing the rungs of a well-defined ladder and more like going up a climbing wall. With a climbing wall, one might have objectives or goals, but the route to reaching them may involve upward movements, pausing, going downwards, going sideways, or even getting totally off the wall for a time.
My younger kid did all of those, including getting off the ladder while she went back to college for advanced degrees. Since then she appears to be on an excellent career path that uses all of her skills from her undergrad BFA degree in industrial design as well as her graduate MBA degree. The varied earlier work experiences all come into play in her current position.
My son only earned one college degree, a BA in economics. He had a starting job as an economic consultant that proved to be boring. He jumped off that career ladder but used his skills in statistics and math – combined with interests and hobbies that preceded his college years – to make his own career. No obvious career ladder, no specific long-term goal he was trying to reach. Although somebody is paying his salary, he defined his own career and he can measure his success by several criteria.
So long as my D has a plan in mind, which is based on a realistic view of what she can do and what her possible career tracks are, I’m good. At the present (and for the past few years) she has been interested in neuroscience, and that is her planned major. She is also open the idea that she may not be as interested in it the future. She is going to make sure that she has a strong science background, which can be shifted to something else. We have taught her to do research on any topic in which she is interested, so I think we’ve done what we could. Luckily dance will only be a minor, and she has no interest to go into it professionally. So there has, so far, been no reason to criticize her career choices, or even the reason she made those choices.
One thing we should all realize - many of our kids will have careers in fields and areas which do not exist, or are so new and small that we have not heard of them. It’s true that certain directions, like being a performing artist, have always been very difficult and have never been realistic career paths for the vast majority of people attempt them. On the other hand, there are careers that sound entirely crazy that are not only viable, but lucrative.
The NY Times had a good article on this recently, which ended with the admonition not to tell your kids they can do anything, but tell them they can do anything they are good at, and for which they will get paid.
Music majors have a very high admit rate to medical school and tend to be respected by employers. I think, for undergrad years, many kids should be able to pursue what they love, but with high debt it can indeed be scary.
@Knowsstuff my son did ACE this year and loved it! He was actually originally interested in mech e, but after his experience with ACE he is civil all the way. He is excited to do it again next year. You’re right, it’s a great program!
My D has a BA in theater with minors in dance and art history. And I was all for it. She is now trying to pursue work as an actor through regional theater. She has an apprenticeship, works as a barista and cobbles together other work as she can. I am proud of her for pursuing her dream. When she gets tired of scraping by I know she can make a life in the arts through teaching, non profit work or switch to something else entirely. She has a bachelors degree, writes well, has good people skills, is organized, and is a responsible, hard worker. She will make her way. She supports herself (except for health insurance and cell phone right now) so it’s not really my place to criticize her career plans. And I applaud her for being a risk taker. Heck at 17 she auditioned for Disney on Ice. I never thought she would get that but she did and spent a year on tour. Unbelievably positive growth experience for her. Now, I didn’t want her to delay college too long and was glad she only did it for a year.
My S switched from mechanical engineering to a history major and math minor. He eventually wants to be a teacher and work with kids. He probably won’t get rich and it will be a less straightforward transition to a career but he is so much happier. He knows he has to figure out a way to support himself and he will.i really am not worried about it.
My oldest is changing careers and I am concerned there are not as many jobs as he thinks there are. There is an additional skill he may need (that he could aquire), for the better jobs. I have looked at job postings and there are just not that many. I have not agressively criticized, but have pushed him to find out more about the real job prospects and what is needed. It makes him anxious, so he doesn’t always want to hear it, but he will be more anxious if he finishes and can’t get a job.
@blossom#44. That’s great to hear. At my daughter’s performing arts high school they kept preaching a liberal arts education which we totally support and they stated all you say. But it’s great to hear actually people hiring these wonderful kids. She is in a small lac and hear the same
Theater kids /performers usually time management is great. Learn things superfast… They had to learn a play and lines and be off book in two weeks. Like always on time and can take critism. Most are people persons and are very creative thinkers.
Good to hear that real companies are hiring them… Makes me feel better…
Mom2- has your son sat down with a counselor at the career services department (if he’s still in college- or even if an alum?) It’s sometimes easier to get a reality check from a NOT mom, especially from someone who does career planning for a living.
Is the additional skill something like a specific computer program? Career services will know that, and can recommend the fastest way to get it. If it’s something like certification which varies by state, it’s easy enough for your son to Google and do the legwork himself.
Channel his anxiety by suggesting that he sit down with an expert for a reality check…young people often need to hear “You will struggle to find a job in Suburban Philadelphia as an elementary school language arts teacher. You will have NO TROUBLE finding a job in Suburban Philadelphia if you get certified in ESL or special ed”.
blossom: i have asked him to discuss with his advisor, but will also suggest the career center. I don’t know how specific he is being with his questions. I also wonder how forthcoming the advisors/career center will be with him as it seems they have been saying there are jobs out there.
Thanks for your thoughts. We have a family friend that I am going to try to get him to talk to about this, since she is in his field.
The message “there are jobs out there” is not the same thing as “here’s what you need to do in order to land a job.”. If your son has not been moving in that direction- you can encourage him to do so. Career folks don’t want the 9 month surveys coming back which show students unemployed, not in grad school or the military, or underemployed (in jobs that don’t require a college degree). That’s THEIR report card. So prodding kids down the path to land one of these jobs IS what they get paid to do.
Some kids don’t need a lot of support. Some kids need a prod and a shove and all the rest.
ShawSon is gifted at abstract reasoning and logical argumentation and especially at strategy. (His advisor in college called him brilliant at strategy in an interview so it’s not just dad saying it). As a consequence, he loved Moot Court in HS and did very well in the competitions. However, he is severely dyslexic. He said, “I’d love to be like John Roberts prior to the Supreme Court and get called on to argue before the Supreme Court. Maybe I should go to law school.” We pointed out how hard it would be to get to John Roberts’ exalted position as a dyslexic person. Just a poor career choice because it doesn’t play to his strengths. He quickly moved in another direction and is doing exceedingly well.
ShawD shifted from biology to nursing after her first semester. She transferred at the end of the first semester and was admitted to a program that had an accelerated 5 year BSN/MSN program. I told her “Here’s the deal. You are going to feel at the end of the BSN that you want a break and will think it is a good idea to work an RN a couple of years and the take classes to become an NP. I know from how your mind works that you will like being an RN but you will love being an NP. So the deal is that I’m completely OK with the switch and you agree to resist the urge to stop at the RN or do the MSN part-time.” At the time three years later, she thought about stopping and I reminded her of our discussion. She pushed through the MSN classes/clinicals. She started to get really positive feedback of a sort from doctors and oddly from the head of the MSN program as follows: “You are so bright. You should go to med school.” That was something she didn’t want from the beginning. Long story short. She was exhausted finishing up school. I emailed her a ticket for three months in Southeast Asia after she took her boards a few months before she graduated. She read it on her phone while walking down the street and just broke out in tears because she needed the release. End of story. She loves doing primary care as an NP – she is a great diagnostician, loves working with patients (not all are great, of course) and especially with whole families, and loves figuring out what is wrong and how to treat it.
So in both cases, a significant steer. In the latter case, not so much as criticism but anticipating her tendencies and having a sense of what she would love.
By the time our kid said he wanted to go to Officer Candidate School and join the Navy, he’d spent a couple of years working at NGOs and had some summer experience running conferences/summer dorms. I figured he was a grown up. He knew we were concerned, but we supported his choice.