<p>BA, MA in English. I took Calc in HS. No math since then. I was actually one of the best math students of my class,all A’s, but I never liked it. I can probably do math through simple algebra and geometry now. I have no problem doing taxes, banking, other math-related personal tasks, and I have no problem not using a calculator. I think that i “grasp” numbers in a different way than most students do today. I have a sense of numbers, so that I can see when an auto loan deal doesn’t make sense, or look at distances and guess them pretty accurately. Stuff like that.</p>
<p>H is teaching AP Bio, and students are getting numbers wrong, ON THEIR CALCULATORS, and not understanding that they’re wrong. Somehow in discussion, the multiplication of 5 times two hundred and something came up, and one girl announced the answer was 9000. H asked how that could be the answer (didn’t it sound wrong to her?) and she held up her calculator to show him “but that’s what it says.” Which is sad. And this is AP.</p>
<p>On the subject of calculus, I’ve agreed before with JHS and will again–it’s a nice exercise in logical thinking, but there are so many others that could work better and might stay with us longer. As a high percentage of CC’ers here certainly do illustrate.</p>
<p>There are two threads in the College Life forum about struggling freshman. They did well in high-school, do all the right CC things (study hard, office hours, tutoring centers, working out the problems in the book, etc.) but have trouble with the types of problems that they see. I posted in one about doing problems vs exercises as per The Art and Craft of Problem Solving. Having kids do puzzles, riddles, jokes, puns, paper and pencil exercises, discussions in the car about world problems and small problems encourages outside of the box thinking which can be quite useful in taking science courses.</p>
<p>It seems to me that much focus in schools today are in doing well on tests. I think that the goal is to teach material, learning and concepts but schools run by metrics today and putting all of the energy into meeting metrics may leave behind real learning.</p>
<p>I got a BS in science nearly 30 years ago, and took loads of calc, differential equations, advanced engineering math, etc. All of those courses really cemented the lower math in my head because I had to use it so much in the advanced math and science classes. So I can still do algebra, trig and geometry. But Calculus just looks like something I once knew.</p>
<p>How much do I remember? Not much. Calc and trig are distant memories for me. I have discovered, however, that if I actually read the textbook, many topics come back to me fairly quickly (perhaps I should have tried that in high school!) Guess I still have some functioning brain cells!</p>
<p>BCeagles–I agree with you about puzzles, games, etc. I grew up with a puzzle-junkie dad; we read Martin Gardner books for fun–i loved and still love those kinds of mind exercises. Chess, Scrabble, all kinds of card games, word games–those were the staples of my childhood, and I think they developed my thinking abilities (such as they are).</p>
<p>A little off topic, but I have a “why math matters” real life story. We were fixing up our kitchen and replacing all the cabinets. Most of them were below the countertops or above the countertops, but one cabinet went from the floor to ceiling and would house the ovens. The designer had the cabinet built off-site and delivered to our house. But the cabinet had to be tipped to fit in the doorway and carried into the kitchen. When the carpenters tried to stand it up, no luck! We all just stared at it, wedged at an angle between the floor and ceiling. The designer said she didn’t know how that could have happened because she measured accurately. So I said “Pythagorean Theorum”, and the carpenters burst out laughing. They understood the problem. The designer never did.</p>
<p>Let’s see. I took college math through calculus. Flunked out of DiffEq and never took any more. I have subbed in high school math through pre-calc without difficulties, although sometimes I have to ask the better students with help to refresh my memory. I am incapable of using a calculator to do math problems, but I do very well on paper.</p>
<p>I took a course on teaching AP calc which helped get my calculus back but it’s mostly gone again. </p>
<p>I use my geometry skills all the time (quilts, gardens, furniture, etc.). I use algebra 2 stuff pretty regularly, as well.</p>
<p>“Math is essentially a language; if not used, the ability to remember it atrophies”- entirely incorrect. In respect for both language and math and actually even Computer Language (for those in IS / IT). You think that it is not there, but if you need to use it, it all comes back very quickly. Actually, D. commented the same even about Physics.</p>
<p>Took precalc in hs and two semesters of calc and one of statistics in college. I helped D through precalc - remembered Alg I and II, but had to study the textbook and do some practice problems from Albebra II/trig on. It was actually easier the second time around, but I’d be lost in calc, and don’t know if I could ever figure out a graphing calculator!</p>
<p>Economics Major/Math Minor, MBA Econometrics</p>
<p>D2 was struggling a little with her algebra, I would help but it seemed like she was learning most concepts differently from how H & I had learned them (he was a CS/EE double-major). For some concepts, she grasped it better our way than the teacher’s way, for others, our way confused her even more!</p>
<p>Which I guess I should be able to do since I got a couple technical degrees 20 years ago, and work as an engineer. But I don’t do any math at work.</p>
<p>Any math I remember is from helping kids on SATs, math class, and AP exams.</p>
<p>My S asked his advisor whether it would be a good idea for him to work a couple of years before grad school. The advisor said that it was not. Math majors are advised to head straight for grad school lest they forget their math. If that can happen in a couple of years, imagine how much math can be forgotten in a couple of decades.</p>
<p>Took 3 semesters of college calc, chemistry major, then medical school statistics (lots of problem solving). Looked at my old calc book- couldn’t do calc or trig problems without relearning the material. Remember how speed and acceleration are related by calc and how the equations finally made sense back then. It was nice to understand WHY things are as they are even if the details are lost. We had to do it without calculators- sure would have saved time to have a graphing calculator instead of plugging in numbers to figure out the shape of a curve…</p>
<p>Loss through lack of use. Son never asked for math help in middle school or beyond- math major now. I’m at the stage where I remember there are rules et al but not the specifics, too lazy to look them up and solve a problem unless I need to. Problem solving learned in HS chemistry helped in college and stayed with me. Do see similarities with foreign languages.</p>
<p>What’s that old saying my kids kept quoting:
Literature is mostly history
History is mostly psychology
Psychology is mostly biology
Biology is mostly chemistry
Chemistry is mostly physics
Physics is mostly math
Math rules!</p>
<p>Through Linear Algebra and grad school in Economics but they mostly lost me back in Geometry! Now if they want to talk Financial Math or talk Statistics then I could have helped but they never took those courses.</p>
<p>This year I took one look at her Quantum Chemistry text and was lost on page one. Guess I don’t remember Diff Eq. at all.</p>
<p>You have to bluff your way through “hmm that is tough how do you think you should solve this as you are going to be the one taking the exam…etc. etc…” so that they learn enough math to be able to make an appropriate choice as to what they want to study.</p>
<p>PhD Lit. I regret that I only had through Algebra II in HS, have forgotten almost all of it. Did a tiny bit of stats in a social science master’s program. Sometimes I do percentages in my work and ask DH or DD when I’m not sure. I liked the poetics of numbers but I don’t get to use them that much, these days. OTOH, I weirdly remember the parts of Latin that relate directly to the Spanish that I use regularly, almost every day, esp. when I’m doing a lot of writing in Spanish.</p>
<p>I took several calc courses in college, but I have a hard time remembering how to do calc. It is especially hard because I don’t really understand all this plugging in stuff with the new calculators … I mean, they GRAPH for you!!!</p>
<p>When I subbed in high school, I ended up remembering a lot of algebra (frankly, more than they bother teaching now!), geometry (again, more then what the integrated course now teaches - the proofs now are far too simple), chem, physics, and some trig. I could probably re-learn the advanced trig & the calc, but I am too old & tired to bother! Fortunately, my son’s AP Calc teacher has a smart board & records every class lesson … he can go back & listen to her explanations if he has questions.</p>
<p>BTW, I still rule at writing - that was my forte in high school - and I ended up at an engineering college! My kids love having a mom who can help them edit papers. I don’t do it for them, but I am really good at helping them put finishing touches on their papers.</p>
<p>I took Algebra 1, 2 and Geometry. I have a BA in government/poli sci. In college, I took History of Math and other goofy non-math major math classes. I can figure out the sale price of something I want to buy, leave a tip and buy carpeting. I don’t need any more math than that. PhD Comp Sci DH helps with math and science, I do the rest.</p>
<p>I have a B.A. in History, and a J.D. The last math course I ever took was advanced algebra and trigonometry in 11th grade, for which I was lucky my high school had an option to take one course pass-fail every year – I failed the final exam, and probably would have gotten a D for the year. (How I managed to get a 740 on the math SAT’s I’ll never know, since I figured out the answers to most questions by counting on my fingers, pretty much.)</p>
<p>I remember nothing I studied beyond the most basic elementary algebra that I learned in 7th grade. And have had no occasion in 30 years practicing law to use anything much beyond that. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and percentages are usually all I need to do, and for that I use a calculator. Anything I know about accounting principles, and present value, and income streams, and other concepts relevant to valuing a business – or at least to understanding what hired experts say – I learned as an attorney, not in school.</p>
<p>I stopped being able to help my son in his math courses after Algebra I and teaching him how to measure angles with a protractor.</p>