<p>My son is a high school freshman, plays drums, and definitely prefers rock and funk over jazz and orchestral music. He plays with jazz ensembles, and enjoys them, but my concern is that if he heads to a traditional jazz curriculum, without truly loving jazz, then he may not be as happy as he should be. He tells me he likes jazz, but nearly all of his reading, practicing, and listening is in rock and funk.
His parents want him to have a well-rounded college experience, and would be thrilled if he studied music in college, although our bias is in favor of a liberal arts education with great music, as opposed to conservatory or Berklee type of school.
How does one approach musical higher education for a student who wants to rock?</p>
<p>Rosaries... </p>
<p>All kidding aside, as children become more educated as to what a music career and education is all about, they become grounded in a reality where the realize that they'll need a day job if they want to make a go of rock and roll.</p>
<p>Hopefully there are some roll models available for your son in terms of HS alumni who have gone the musical route, family friends, band/orchestrat directors or private teachers. They are the ones who will help educate them to the realities of a music career. As a parent of a HS freshmen, it is doubtful if your advice would be deemed worthy. You son needs others to help overstate the obvious...</p>
<p>Our son went through a rock phase (while continuing classical and jazz studies), and it was rather unpleasant at that, since he liked a lot of screamo and metal.</p>
<p>My mantra during that time was, "This music is not a destination". Other than that, we didn't limit his playing in a rock band, or his listening to the music. However, we all were relieved that it was relatively short lived, and by mid-way through Sophomore year, he was finished with it, and back on a serious classical/jazz musical path.</p>
<p>I don't know whether or not this will be true for your son, but we have known a lot of very good musicians who got caught up in rock for awhile, and many "grew out of it", particularly when it becomes abundantly apparent that violence and drugs etc. can be an integral part of the whole scene. My son had two friends who were hurt in mosh pits (one is lucky that he didn't lose his eye), and independently decided it wasn't really how he wanted to spend his time, particularly with his talent in other musical arenas.</p>
<p>However, had he wanted to pursue only rock music, we would have insisted on a university education too, letting him know that he could go off to become a rich and famous rock start with a degree under his belt.</p>
<p>Well, since he is a freshman, I wouldn't be too worried about this. Maybe that is because I'm not a parent, but he does have two more years before he really has to start thinking about what he wants to major in and where he wants to go to school. Has he said that he wants to major in music? Do you mean study music as in major in it, or as in continuing lessons and playing in the colleges music groups and taking classes? If it is the latter, his favoring rock and funk would probably not be an issue, since he could take lessons for that, probably form a band, take classes, maybe if they have contemporary music classes or ensembles, that do more rock or some such. If he wants to major in it, he still has all of his high school years to learn more about jazz, and if that's not what he wants to do, then, that's not what he's going to do. :) Also, a lot of jazz (an umbrella term) can be played in a rock style, a funk style. Does he like Herbie Hancock? If he hasn't heard any of his stuff, he should check out his Headhunters album, and other stuff, because Hancock does a lot of fusion of styles, funk, rock and jazz definitely being in it, and maybe that would get him interested in other kinds of jazz, including the stuff we think of when we think of jazz. Hmm, I hope that made sense...</p>
<p>And, IZ, thats true about needing others to help overstate the obvious, haha, I wonder how many times my mom told me something and it wasn't until someone else, like my sax teacher or someone, said it when I believe it...</p>
<p>I can see I need some sage advice from anyone reading this thread. My S is a HS jr, wants to go into music business, but the only kind of music he likes is metal & screamo. He’s an accomplished guitarist and also played piano for 7 years. We’ve told him his best bet is to get a degree in business (eg, marketing) and maybe a minor in music, but he doesn’t seem to understand that he will be sort of an outcast in a college music dept, where most students will be seriously studying classical or jazz, neither of which he likes.</p>
<p>So…what should we do?</p>
<p>First there was classical and jazz wasn’t considered worth studying until about 50 years into its maturity. About the time rock took over it became ok to study jazz. Rock isn’t inferior to other music. It is a different. It is now being put into music school curriculums in a more serious way. There are forms of rock that probably aren’t worth a lot of study. I don’t know that I would put Screamo into a category worth studying but there is a great deal of outstanding rock music. My son is a popular music major at USC and the curriculum and exposure are exceptional. Aural skills, music theory, performance, industry, as well as exposure to world class working musicians is a part of his daily education. Your questions are good ones, but I worry there is some tone in the replies that if you aren’t studying jazz or classical you are down an inferior path. The market for rock music is larger and the opportunity to create new music is larger in the rock or popular music areas in my opinion. </p>
<p>USC offers all of this in a liberal arts oriented University and I suspect others will do so over time.</p>
<p>No music path is easy, but your child will likely do best at what he has the greatest interest in. You can probably guide him, but he will likely select what suits him best.</p>
<p>Raddad, thank you so much for your post. When I read some of the replies here, from some of my most favorite posters no less, my mouth dropped open. Thank goodness the Beatles did not “grow out” of rock music! Or Pink Floyd, Neil Young, The Eagles, U2. Do I have to go on?</p>
<p>My son has studied jazz guitar seriously through all of middle and high school, played in the top jazz band in his school, did jazz programs every summer, the works. But he also has also always played in a rock band, and his current band plays all the major clubs in LA. His current band is very hot right now on the LA indie scene, so who knows. But he’s always loved both jazz and rock, and each has informed the other. Still his true love has always clearly been rock.</p>
<p>When it came time to apply to colleges, he applied to guitar jazz programs and was accepted to all of his top choices, some with scholarships. His thinking was that he didn’t need to study popular/rock music; that continuing his jazz studies was the best way to keep improving.</p>
<p>And guess what. He just switched his major to from studio/jazz guitar to popular music. (Don’t laugh, Raddad, you know we discussed this!) He realized he’s frankly a bit bored of jazz, doesn’t want to be a professional jazz guitarist or a teacher. He wants to continue performing, do session work (has already begun), perhaps score for movies or TV one day. And the program raddad is referring to can get him there just as easily as the one he left. Meanwhile, he’s getting a degree from a respected university in a field he loves. Different strokes, as they say. One size does not fit all. </p>
<p>I’m glad he’s going to be happy. If I told you my college major and what I do now, you’d laugh.</p>
<p>And long live rock and roll.</p>
<p>^Benbeth, you may not like your son’s current genre, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t marketable or that the skills of performing entertaining/marketing/promoting/technologically delivering are any less valid or transferable in today’s entertainment market. Over the next few years I expect he’ll find his areas of interest. In addition to contemporary music programs, there are music business programs, audio recording programs, and music technology degrees available that seem to attract musicians from this genre. All of those, however, are pretty specialized as BMUS, BSC or BFA programs.
Over the next year or so, you may want to help him explore (either in person visits or via the web) programs with a contemporary bent:
Eg: USC Contemporary music; NYU’s Tisch Schools Clive Davis Recording/Producing program (for artists who want to also produce and or promote, by portfolio); Indiana (Bloomington) Jacobs’ Recording Arts Program (by portfolio, many rock-oriented students compose and track); University of Michigan Performing Arts Technology Program (part composition, production, multimedia, sound engineering and acoustic engineering, many many rock/alternative/indie students in this program),Humber College Contemporary music (Toronto, Canada).</p>
<p>Those programs are the mix my son chose to investigate, and all included pretty rigorous scores at reasonably rigorous schools academically (except Humber) – but there are others with which I am less familiar, such as Oberlin’s TIAMARA program (music technology), Northeastern’s music business, Syracuse’s music business, plus obvious choices such as Berklee. </p>
<p>Other industry-specific programs that are well known include Belmont in Nashville, which is well known for music/audio production, and I believe, contemporary performance.</p>
<p>That should give you some specific things to guide him. If he has additional interest such as animation or game programming, film, visual arts, or a specific gift for composing or recording you may want to look even more closely at University of Michigan, where my son attends. The technological and programming grounding they get there (in tandem with the highly ranked engineering program) is very very transferable and teaches skills that are highly in demand. Recent visit grads have included young professionals with film and game scores under their belts; others work at Bose, etc.</p>
<p>PS Ironically, my son was not pursuing ‘rock’ per se…really loves classical AND jazz, and what he writes kind of defies genre, so I do not suggest that those programs are ‘rock focused’ so much as attractive to rock musicians, if you get the difference.</p>
<p>Benbeth,
I’m going out on a limb, especially for someone whose kids are going to what are essentially high-end trade schools (conservatories and and art institute), but perhaps some genres are just healthier when kept outside of academe. (I think this is true for a lot of art, but that’s another topic.) Your original idea of him getting a liberal arts education isn’t so bad-- there is no reason why he can’t maintain a robust musical life while also studying philosophy, economics, biology, English, history of art, etc. I teach in a university where I’ve had many students who are also thriving rock musicians. Right now, for example, I have a student who is the lead singer and guitarist in an Indie band that is getting a lot of attention both in our city and New York- playing in major clubs and excellent press, coming out with an album, etc. That is one route. </p>
<p>Another route is the conservatory route-- many great discussions of that in posts below. And also great discussions of the music industry route. My kids went to middle school with a boy whose 2-man band was signed last year by EMI. They were just two kids in the music industry program at Drexel, but their band had the right stuff. Their success is probably posing an interruption to their academic careers. Aside from the inevitable problems that come along with achieving great success at an early age (it’s always a double-edged sword, isn’t it?), theirs is a good example of how you can maintain active engagement as an artist while in a related academic program.</p>
<p>Like glassharmonica, I teach college students. In fact, two of my most successful students in the past couple of years were a pair of sisters who excelled in liberal arts classes (as far as I know, neither one took any music or music business (or maybe even any regular business) classes at college) and whose band plays in a genre that gives me personally a headache. They were both B+/A students and occasionally would apologize for missing class the following day because the band had gotten an important regional gig. They’ve been on Warped Tour at least twice that I’m aware of, and are hoping to make a successful career from their music. </p>
<p>Music - rock/rap/screamo included - is hard work. It’s nicer at the end of the day if you’re working at what you love…or if at the end of the day working at what you’re doing in order to pay the rent, you can go off and spend a couple of hours doing what you love.</p>
<p>He’s only a freshman, when I was that age I just wanted to rock and shred and that’s what I did. I only started playing jazz a year ago and I have gone really far and I totally love jazz and that’s all I want to play now. High school brings about a lot of change, you’ll never know what he may be into. if he’s already exposed to jazz and other things by playing it that’s a good start.</p>
<p>The original post was back in '06 (benbeth)
BFLOGAL who bumped this has a Junior in HS</p>
<p>Right you are, musicamusica, but that doesn’t make the depiction of any genre of popular music as an immature phase one gets “caught up in” and should “outgrow” to move on to more “sensible” or mature genres sound any less strange to those who love, perform and desire to make their living in pop genres. </p>
<p>To focus one’s view rock music in terms of drugs, violence or mosh pits is quite humorous. Reminds me of what the previous generation must have sounded like when they expressed their distaste for that evil Chuck Berry or sinister Elvis Presley.</p>
<p>To understand the folly of this thinking, we need only to look at the new popular music programs created at major schools since the OP began this thread in 2006. Like raddad, I expect this trend will continue.</p>
<p>To the person who bumped this thread…</p>
<p>I’m actually very very similar to your son it sounds like, I started piano at age 6 and played for 7+ years and did a ton of composing, entered contests etc. etc. but around the age of 11 I started listening to rock and metal and picked up the guitar. that’s primarily what I played until about a year ago, I never thought I would’ve enjoyed listening to opera, jazz, classical etc. but now I love all of those genres and more. A change could come but it really depends on the person, if not then playing metal/rock was a big dream of mine back in the day and it’s not entirely impossible but it’s just hard. they are a ton of really great bands out there with more coming up, the scene in huge right now. that being said there are a lot of great studio/contemporary programs. there are a lot of programs that embrace jazz, classical, metal, rock, folk etc. and give it all to the students. Those are the programs I like the best. There’s definitely a lot of options in California as well.</p>
<p>Bflogal - I can sympathize with anyone going through this screamo thing with a HS Jr. I have one too. He is a wonderful trumpet player and loves to play in his HS Jazz band, plays the piano, electric bass and is learning electric guitar. I don’t understand the screamo “music”, or the need to gauge one’s ears. However, my son does not want to go into music, but into film. He would actually also like to make music videos too. So, we are looking at film schools, trying to put off the gauges in the ears, and hoping the interest in that type of music will fade!</p>
<p>And why was music in quotations marks? The one thing I can’t stand is people disregarding screamo/metal/avant-garde etc. music as not being music. People can put off a genre as much as they want but it is definitely a musical and art form. Sure not everyone enjoys it but a lot of people do and it’s a thriving community of fantastic bands, musicians and fans. People have always looked down on heavy music because of their own ignorance and perceptions of it, not pointed at you in particular, just in general. There’s a lot more that could be understood about the genre…that being said stretching ears is something that all kinds of people do, but has seemed to be lumped with those kinds of musicians. I don’t care for ear stretching either, but it seems to be a big thing right now.</p>
<p>Yeah, I’m going to jump on the defending-screamo bandwagon. It has someone screaming in it. Opera has a different kind of screaming. That much is a timbre preference thing. Admittedly, most opera you hear is written by well-known composers, and even outside of that the composer almost always has more musical knowledge than the average screamo band, but just because it falls within that genre doesn’t mean it’s not good. Fall of Troy plays some pretty out ****. I doubt that the particular textures and sensibilities that define screamo will last long–just as most of the rock music written in the sixties sounds dated. Like anything in music, the majority of the vapid crap is forgotten, the good stuff remembered, and the conventions allowed to evolve into the next big thing. For every Beatles there’s a Herman’s Hermits. I hope to God that nobody is listening to Fall Out Boy in twenty years, but I also hope the generation that argued in favor of Jimi Hendrix to their own parents wouldn’t begrudge their kids the privilege to find their own sound. I guess parents just aren’t going to appreciate their kids’ generation’s musical foibles, and that’s fine.</p>
<p>(I just realized how off-topic this was, so sorry about that and the preachy-ness. Hey, I’m young. If I don’t have strong opinions about art now, when will I have them?)</p>
<p>It’s ok, us young ones are allowed to be cantankerous and opinionated ;)</p>
<p>Eh, music was in quotations because it does not sound like music to me - but I am “old”, so can be opinionated too. Now that was not said meanly, just my opinion. On a positive note about screamo: I have heard some great guitar playing along with the screams.
My music ed major daughter is currently taking music history. They have not gotten to the truly modern 20th century music types. She said things like rap and screamo may be mentioned, but it most likely will not go into it in depth. She also said there was a History of Rock" course offered that would probably have that in more detail.</p>
<p>@18karat (and anyone else)–</p>
<p>So, my S, a jr in HS, loves metal and screamo, wants a career in music business or producing, but has no real music EC’s (not in school jazz band-- hates jazz). He did go to a music workshop at UCSC (Soundwall) that was rock-oriented (and fabulous) and for which he had to audition, but nothing else to put on a college application, other than he plays guitar (and played piano for 7 yrs before that). In addition, his GPA isn’t anything to write home about. He has no hope of getting into (for example) USC, which is arguably the best in the west for music business.</p>
<p>So, where should he apply next year? Or should he go to jr college for 2 years, then transfer? Or go someplace like Musicians Institute in LA?</p>
<p>All opinions welcome. Thanks.</p>