Parents, need some help, weigh in, should i stay at Cornell and evaluate my chances

Parent Cafe
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<p>have been a member of these boards for a few years now, and I really appreciate all of the advice and knowledge relayed on these boards. I now find myself in a complex position, and am looking for some help. I am at Cornell University, and from the start, wasn't that thrilled. After a semester, I have given it much thought and feel like I owe it to myself to put in some transfer applications. I was admitted out of high school to U of Chicago, Northwestern, Rice, Emory, and Cornell. My parents however are not thrilled with the idea of me transfering out of Cornell b/c they don't think I will be any happier at another peer school (UPenn, Brown, and Columbia) and may not even do as well. I am actually somewhat disappointed in how I did my first semester at Cornell (3.6 GPA, taking 4 courses, technically 5 if you count lab and lecture for biology as 2 courses. I actually receive 2 grades for biology, one for lab and lecture). The average grade given out in bio 101 at cornell is a C+/B- because it is on a strict curve and I got B+ in both courses). I hope that 3.6 is enough, and I know cornell is known for serious grade deflation, it is very true btw. My grade in the bio brought me from a 3.8 to a 3.6 and since then, I am interested in political science, which i got an A in the intro course.</p>

<p>My high school statistics...</p>

<p>unweighted 96 GPA, no weighted grades in my school
no ranking, but in the top 2-3 percent based on unweighted average
10 APs by graduation
all available honors
involved in high school (captain of tennist team, president of a community service organization, i played the violin for the orchestra, was a ranked tennis player early on in high school, and was apart of other clubs as an active member)</p>

<p>My SAT I, on ONE sitting - 1450
SAT II- 740/730/740/700, Writing/Math IC/BIo/Us Hist</p>

<p>At Cornell, I am a presidential research scholar, one of 40 out of 3000 students, selected in the spring before I entered. It is apart of the Cornell Commitment Scholarship Programs for exceptionally motivated students.</p>

<p>I would appreciate if you think I should stay at Cornell and if you can evaluate me as a transfer candidate for:</p>

<p>Columbia
UPenn
Brown
Duke
Northwestern
U of Chicago
Rice</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

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<p>Say again, what is it that you are unhappy about? That your GPA is too low? And who is responsible for that?</p>

<p>Do I read you correctly that you want less challenge, more party time? Better strike UChicago from the list.</p>

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<p>What don't you like about Cornell besides your B+ in Biology?</p>

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<p>um...its a bunch of reasons, its location is a MINUS, but there is a community feel b/c it really is in the middle of no where. Some ppl like it, some don't. I want to be closer to a city. In addition, IT GETS COLD. I am not even kidding, if weather is important, don't go to Cornell. Academics are great, but extremely demanding and rigorous especially in the sciences. I am now into econ and poli sci and i wouldn't mind a stronger econ and poli sci school such as Columbia.</p>

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<p>btw, i wanted ppl to know i copied and pasted that from another thread i started, i am trying to get opinions from many ppl. I am not blaming Cornell at all for my GPA, i am just saying, it is really hard over here and hope for some leeway (the average GPA given out for freshman is a 3.0). I just have heard that other schools aren't as deflated as Cornell is and thus, have better track records at grad schools.</p>

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<p>
[Quote]
IT GETS COLD

[/Quote]
</p>

<p>Better strike Brown, Northwestern and UCh off your list then.</p>

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<p>I think Cornell is much much colder than all of those places. It rains/snows everyday up in Ithaca. Weather isn't that important, nicer weather, sure is nicer. Being closer to a city is more important.</p>

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<p>Brown might be just a tad dryer and warmer than Cornell (though it still has snow and many cold days). (I went to grad school there.) But Chicago is another case entirely. The wind sweeps in off the Lake and it can be mighty cold. It's got a great urban location with lots to do, but you will need to invest in some parkas and heavy gloves.</p>

<p>How about Emory in Atlanta--a big city and warmer weather.</p>

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<p>Bball, Let's look at this from another perspective: What do you LIKE about Cornell? And, are there any steps you can take to make Cornell a better place to be? (Perhaps warmer clothing? :) ) The reason I am asking these two questions is that before you transfer you should know both what you will gain and what you might be giving up, especially as, to me at least, it seems your discontent with Cornell is based on somewhat superficial things. I'm not saying you shouldn't consider transferring, but rather that you should look at both sides of the coin - staying and leaving - before you decide to transfer.</p>

<p>Next, keep in mind that transferring to schools like Columbia, UPenn and Brown is very difficult, as they take very few transfer students each year. Thus, you may have to be willing to look at other options in addition to those you gave up last year when you picked Cornell. First, however, I would suggest that you contact the schools that accepted you last year and see if they have a policy of keeping admission files open for a year - some schools do, and that might expedite your chances of transferring.</p>

<p>If you do decide that Cornell is not the right place for you -- and there's nothing wrong with that -- don't rush to assume that any other school will be "better" just because it's not Cornell. Consider a wide range of options, including schools that you did not consider before. Your college grades will be a deciding factor, as will recommendations from college teachers, so be sure to look closely at transfer GPAs and spend some time thinking about who you might ask to write those recommendations for you. I'd also suggest throwing in some slightly less selective (for transfers) schools into the mix --- Emory is a good suggestion, other possibilities might be Boston U, NYU, U of Miami, Tulane, Johns Hopkins, even the University of Southern California. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I don't want to sound pretensious, but there is no way I am leaving an ivy league school for a school like BU, NYU, Tulane, or USC. Many of the reasons I have listed seem superficial, but I would prefer a similar caliber school perhaps closer to a city. From your post, you made me awfuly pessimestic about my chances to some of these universities. I thought I was a lock for a place like Rice and Northwestern (I was already admitted for crying out loud as a freshman and yes, northwestern, rice, and chicago all have my files from last year). Northwestern, I spoke to the head of the transfer office, and he said they do have my file open, but I am not exactly sure what this means. In addition, when you said you should consider other options in addition to the ones i was already accepted to, did you mean, that I would likely get into those or should look at other places b/c I likely wouldn't? Thanks for your comments though.</p>

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<p>Bball, Sorry, didn't mean to sound overly pessimistic, I was just talking numbers: It is much harder to get into Columbia as a transfer than it is as a freshman - they take less than 10% of transfer applicants and their MINIMUM college GPA for transfers is 3.5. Brown and Penn are slightly less selective, but still take relatively few transfer students. </p>

<p>Thus, I suggested you (1) consider talking to the other schools you were already accepted to last year about re-opening your file (which it sounds like you've already started to do with your call to Northwestern) and (2) possibly consider a broader range of schools if not being near a city is one of the major things you don't like about Cornell - there are, after all, only so many universities in urban areas.</p>

<p>I didn't mean to imply you wouldn't get into the schools you mentioned - it certainly sounds like you have an impressive background - but transferring is a great time to re-evaluate what is and isn't important to you, and it would be a shame to waste that opportunity by focusing your options too narrowly.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision!</p>

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<p>A boy from our community who was, I think, a poly sci major, transferred from Cornell to Harvard because Cornell didn't have exactly what he was looking for in his area of interest. He was an excellent student in h.s.--out of a number of ivies that he applied to, he had been accepted at Penn and Cornell. His h.s. stats were, I think, only slightly higher than yours. (altho he had strong ec's in a variety of areas). From what I understand, he had a very specific academic reason why he felt that Harvard would better meet his needs. I'm wondering...do the transfer aps specifically ask why you are seeking the change? If so, it would be important to crystalize your thinking about what, specifically, each new school would offer you.</p>

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<p>you might want to wait another semester to transfer out of cornell-- a lot of my school goes to cornell every year, and during iwinter break a lot of them think about transferring because they dont like it-- but more often then not, by the end of their freshman year, they love cornell and couldnt see themselves anywhere else.</p>

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<p>Judging from your reasoning why Cornell isn't right for you.... I think you need to re-think on this issue. I had a difficult time myself too, making the decision to transfer out of Smith to Colgate.</p>

<p>I know current students and alumni from Cornell and I did consider Cornell when transferring. People just LOVE it there despite it all- because of that community feeling that you describe. But I will tell you that, though every one of them was glad to get out of Cornell on breaks and upon graduation because of the terror on the workload, none of them regretted their experiences.</p>

<p>I personally think you are not giving yourself enough credit for attaining a high GPA, especially in the sciences. There must be several moments where you heard some of your classmates cried because s/he flunked the exam and you're just relieved to pass. It's one of the beauties of college academics- standing on your own at the end and just breathe with happiness while the person next to you gets upset.</p>

<p>Okay so you feel that sciences isn't the place for you. That's okay. That's part of college exploration. Go ahead and move towards that poly sci/econ track. Just don't let your grades or experiences stop you, just LEARN from them. </p>

<p>However, to transfer to another college with stronger focus on econ/poly sci, that is a good academic reason (as they always look for academic reasons). But you have to be absolutely serious and die-hard about it. I knew that I wanted to major in history but I wanted to explore in other areas at Smith. But that didn't work out and so I took a history course in the spring to confirm my guts- which it did. So I wrote my transfer essay with total passion, highlighting the reasons for wanting to be a history major and being specific on what I want based on my high school (AP Euro, AP US History, etc) and college experiences (want more seminars, etc). So if you're serious about those courses, take another one of each in the spring to demostrate your interest.</p>

<p>Also, some of the schools with terrific poly sci and econ programs aren't Ivy like Georgetown.</p>

<p>Yes, the weather's incredibly cold (as I live in Hamilton). But you know what? If you can survive this winter, you can survive ANYTHING. Your home will suddenly feel a little too warm for you because you were used to the cold. People love to make joking warnings of that. Just invest in some really good winter gear like long underwear, gloves, boots, etc. No one's going to care if you show up so bundled up that you can barely move (like Ralphie's little brother in the Christmas Story...). It's all part of team effort to battle the cold. It's only four years out of your entire life. Now you know where you'd like to live after Cornell- in the South!</p>

<p>With those factors that you're looking for in transferring, I would think long and hard on whether you're being realistic. The very top schools have very cold weather so you might as well suck it up. The UC system is out unless your a CA resident- it's too difficult to get in as a transfer. As for the city atmosphere, think about the advantages that you have by living in a rural area- the biggest being less distractions. And that community feel. You won't get that in city schools at all especially NYU. If you do miss the city, then just live there in the summer for your internships and be sure to go abroad and live in a big city. If you're serious about transferring, then drop your "I'm too good for you" attitude towards other schools in the urban areas so you can have a broader range of schools to apply to.</p>

<p>As carolyn said about thinking what you're giving up by leaving Cornell. That was the hardest decision I had ever made with leaving Smith. I was literally in tears when I got my acceptance letter to Colgate and deposited my check. I agonized for two weeks over the decision on whether to stay or to leave Smith. The major pros about Smith were: brand-name, superior academics, interesting classes that I signed up for the following semester, flexiblie curriculum, a couple of favorite professors, and great alumnae network. Even to this day, I still miss that fact that Smith opened so many doors of opportunities for me. I don't know what Colgate will bring in terms of future opportunities but I guess I'll find out in the spring when I get replies from internships! Anyway, bottom line, make a pro-con list of each section: academics, campus, and campus/social life. That really helped me to make that decision. Though I'm sure most transfers are thrilled to leave their schools behind, but when you've had a chance to attend a top-caliber school or a school of similiar caliber, the decision can be very difficult. Only because you know that you'll still get the same great education there, but it's just the people and the culture that will be different.</p>

<p>Bottom line, I don't think you should transfer from Cornell. Your reasons are too superficial and not damaging to your health (as far as you've revealed). You are simply expecting too much and making excuses of yourself.</p>

<p>I am SO incredibly proud of you for getting that 3.6 GPA and a B+ in bio!</p>

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<p>thanks very much for your posts, u parents are very inspiring and thoughtful.</p>

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<p>I think EC had some important advice. The other posters have done a terrific job of talking about the academic/rational side of considering a move- my thoughts are about the emotional side.</p>

<p>Much of what I think you are feeling is related to the newness of your academic experiences and surroundings. As a veteran of moving, with many, many new cities and countries behind me, what I am hearing is very familar.</p>

<p>In high school you knew what you needed to do to get an A, how to enjoyably spend your free time, what was expected of you, how to be successful. </p>

<p>At a new school, in a new environment, all these things are different; there is more competition, and the absence of the old comfort level can make you feel like you want to go "home" again (that is to somewhere/something familiar), or just try something else. You are obviously very bright, very talented and very motivated and I suspect you will soon have things "figured out" and it is then that Cornell will begin to feel like home.</p>

<p>It was my experience with my kids that a new school ony began to feel like their school after the return from a break...I believe as the second semester gets underway you will feel better about where you are and less like you need a city.</p>

<p>As for the grades...well, you are at a great school, full of other great and talented kids (like yourself :-) ). That is part of the reason I'm sure you decided to go there in the first place, and harsh as it sounds, you may not always be able to be at the top of every class. I suspect this will be true at all the schools you listed ..and, btw, dd is at Brown and with no +'s or -'s in the grading scale it feels harsh to her...ie, if you don't quite make an A, then you have a B, not a B+ or A-. </p>

<p>Best of luck with your decision, but please remember if you transfer you will have the same six month rollercoaster ride as you settle in and try to find your way at a new school.</p>

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<p>bball, I went to Cornell many years ago. I was miserable my first semester. It was lonely and the work just piled on. My GPA was much worse than yours. I realized that I might not even make it to graduation. It seemed to me that it always rained in Ithaca--40 degree rain is even worse than snow on my depression scale.</p>

<p>It's thirty years later and I'm delighted I stuck it out. It was one of the greatest challenges of my life, and it did wonders for my self-confidence. And, in life, I found that the Cornell degree carries a lot of cache. People really know about the low GPA and the hard work. "You should make sure people know you went to Cornell," somebody said to me in a large organization I worked in, "they'll back right off."</p>

<p>As for the weather, it does get better. Springtime in Ithaca can be very nice. Actually, I grew to love the place, and returned often. I'd say give it one more semester (and one more season) before you call it quits.</p>

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<p>Bball,
I remember when the acceptances and rejections rolled in last year and you were accepted at so many great places, but maybe not where you wanted to go...I think, in addition to the suggestions previously made here are some questions that will help you to answer your own dilemma..</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Why did you pick Cornell over Northwestern or the other schools to begin with? Is the reason still valid? Is that still a factor that differentiates Cornell from the schools you would apply to?</p></li>
<li><p>What would need to change at Cornell for you to feel happy enough to want to stay? If you can't define it, then looking at other schools will remain just an advanced and expensive crapshoot. Furthermore, if you can define it, maybe it is something you can change. </p></li>
<li><p>Have you really given Cornell a chance, or did you honestly go in thinking you would just hang around for a year and then get out? If the latter, why? What would be different for you at another school.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I think that lots of kids go in to school with the very unrealistic expectation that they will love it right off the bat...and honestly many very worthwhile experiences in life take longer than 3 months to get used to.</p>

<p>Finally, and I will not belabor this, but you should try to be honest with yourself...are you the sort of person who will likely find things 'not to your liking' in many/most places (any place that is not the #1 place that in your heart you really think you deserve to be)....or are you a person who can make the best of a situation, no matter what. This is not a value judgement about yourself, this is more a reconciling what the issues might really be...</p>

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<p>Hi Bball87. My d is at Cornell so I am often on their site. I've seen many of your discussions. I wasn't really going to chime in here until I noticed a comment by Robyrm saying "you should try to be honest with yourself". You started showing discontent with Cornell in October. You seem to be overly concerned about the prestige of the school and your GPA. By focusing on the negative so early in the semester, it made your time at Cornell even harder to endure. You've mentioned that Cornell is cold and isolated. But your dislike for Cornell was evident before the cold weather struck Ithaca. If I remember correctly the weather in Ithaca was wonderful in October which was the time you started talking about transferring. As (not your) parents, we can't tell you what to do. If you want to transfer- go do it. But we do ask that you be honest with yourself and try to figure out why you want to leave Cornell. If you aren't able to be honest with yourself, you may find yourself in a similar situation at Columbia- Northwestern etc. Good luck.</p>

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<p>I think that the OP's perceptions, as well as that of a number of other posters, should serve as a bit of a cautionary tale: certain schools that have obtained a reputation for having an even more excessive workload than other equally selective schools, have that reputation for a reason. Over and over again, three schools are identified in this regard: UChicago, Cornell, and Swarthmore. Now, some kids are specifically drawn to these schools for this very reason, and they love the challenge and thrive on it. So please, --this is not in any way a judgement of good or bad. I just think that kids need to go in with eyes wide open: there does seem to be a quantitative difference in work load between those three and most of the other ivies/elite schools.</p>