Transferring out of an Ivy...

Transfer Students
1

<p>I'm planning to transfer out of Cornell Engineering. Why? I'm not happy here for a number of reasons. The social life is dismal and dominated by a Greek system that I am not too fond of, the professors and university in general have a profound disconnect with undergraduates, most kids want to fit a state school stereotype of thurs-sun drinking and pretending to have a good time, while many just lock themselves in and study. </p>

<p>It is a depressing atmosphere day-by-day, I feel like its draining the life out of me. I came in here wanting to be extraordinary and do something great for humanity one day, and this place just isn't preparing me for that.</p>

<p>So yea, I think I have a decent reason to transfer. The reason I chose CU is because of its strong engineering/pure science/libarts combo, but now I think med school or business school is more appropriate for me. </p>

<p>But the question is, will I be happier anywhere else? Will the difficulties of the transfer process and becoming part of something else offset the advantages I gain by transferring? Is it hard to make friends with already rooted people?</p>

<p>Some stats are:
2200 SAT (730 V 760 M), 4.0 HS GPA, 4.0 Cornell GPA (engineering) with 21 credits, average EC's for ivy leaguer, should be amazing essays + recommendation (but rec. is just from a TA/instructor of my writing sem)</p>

<p>I'm considering Penn or Columbia, but I really want to be somewhere like Stanford or Harvard. My 4.0 engineering GPA should make me competitive, but it sure as hell wont get me admitted, which brings up the other question of whether I should wait till next year and try to get a "hook" of sorts. What do you guys suggest?</p>

2

<p>The problems you are having are not unique to Cornell University. Also, I must insist that I think you are painting a VERY exaggerated image of Cornell in reference to the state school and drinking comments.</p>

<p>So you are going to be applying to the Arts&Sciences programs at Penn and Columbia? It's competitive but it's fully possible that you'll get into one or the other.</p>

3

<p>do you go Cornell foxdie? many kids here go to a frat party thursday, friday, and saturday nights, which is really quite normal for a other schools. sunday may be pushing it. i'm painting a drab picture, not one that it's evil or terrible here or anything, just disappointing.</p>

4

<p>i agree with foxdie. I do go to Cornell after I transfered from a school where the students didn't party thurs-sat ... but rather it was mon-sun. I think you should try to appreciate how much more academics oriented cornell is vs. the majority of other colleges out there. </p>

<p>"the professors and university in general have a profound disconnect with undergraduates"
this is also a complaint that two of my close friends at columbia and harvard have. I don't think you'll find a different story there. Also, many would disagree with this statement of yours anyways, including myself. You're also a freshmen, my classes were substantially different when they're in the upper levels. You're making some rather profound judgements for somebody whose barely 1/8th of the way through the college experience. </p>

<p>"The social life is dismal and dominated by a Greek system that I am not too fond of"
The greek system only makes up a fraction of the student body. I havn't been to a frat party in at least a year, yet I'm having a ball here at the university. I typically tell students that aren't into the party scene to do exactly what I did, a tough one: do something else! Be a little proactive, go out and have some fun!</p>

<p>"wanting to be extraordinary and do something great for humanity"
so going to Penn will do this? Come on man, this doesn't really have to do a whole lot to which school you go to, it has to do with YOU!!! Those that really did do something "great for humanity" didn't sit back and let their school do it for them, they got out and were extremely proactive about what they were passionate about ... this is what you need to do, whether it be at harvard, stanford, cornell, or state school X. </p>

<p>As far as chances go, I don't really see anything that stands out in your stats. A 4.0 is certainly a gpa that will get you into harvard and stanford, but so will a 3.6. You state that you have average EC's, and those that get into the schools you list generally have more than just "average" stats. I may be wrong, but I'm sure that there's many many students that apply with 4.0's to harvard or stanford ... why do you think it is that those lucky 5 or 8 students out of 100 are offered a spot in the class over others?</p>

<p>"will I be happier anywhere else?"
well, Cornell is an excellent college environment. It's certainly not for everybody, but you're citing problems that many college students complain of regardless of what school they go to ... as opposed to a school not having your desired academic program or the Northeast being to far way from home. I say go ahead and take a shot at the schools you list, but I'm not convinced that they'll solve all of your problems.</p>

5

<p>gomestar, with all due respect, isn't 1337 a student at Cornell and thus well aware of the environment there? It is due to his observations/experience that he has decided to pursue a transfer. Your opinion of the school may be different than his but it probably won't change it.</p>

<p>And 1337, if you want a less frat/bong oriented college, Penn probably isn't the place to go, though Columbia would be a good choice.</p>

6

<p>gomestar, thanks for your input, but i see many errors in your reasoning. it seems you have a tradition in your posts of trying to defend/praise Cornell in every which way you can, no matter what counterexamples are brought up, and saying that anyone who has a problem with Cornell has a problem with themselves.</p>

<p>a) the points i made about the university are just my opinions, the things i see in day to day freshman life, and while i acknowledge these may occur to some degree at other universities, i seek to minimize them. i'm not making any objective facts about the university.</p>

<p>b) however, i contend that the Greek system IS the dominant social scene for freshmen and sophomores that leave their rooms, and the "fraction" you speak of is over 30%. when most people "go out," they are going to a frat party, and i dont think anyone will argue that frats are not a big deal here</p>

<p>c) for the career goals part, i understand i can do the same thing no matter what college, but i was referring to the fact that every day, i see the wrong values and wrong attitudes, values that will deter me from my goal, and i dont know how long it will be before i start accepting these values</p>

<p>d) "A 4.0 is certainly a gpa that will get you into harvard and stanford, but so will a 3.6." Neither will, but believe me a 3.6 will be extremely difficult, almost nonexistent. When I said average EC's, I meant no USAMO or Siemens etc. I played 2 varsity sports, president of nhs/sc/debate, musician, 136 AMC, published in science/humanities etc. This will not get me in either. However, with the previously mentioned and some amazing essays/recs, I have a chance. But if I do research with a distinguished prof. my soph year I have a stronger chance.</p>

7

<p>whoops brand_182 made point a) before I could, posted at the same time</p>

8

<p>haha I noticed that. 1337, as has been said, you've got the stats to try any school. You may want to look into others that have the social environment you may enjoy like Yale, Brown, and even LACs if those interest you.</p>

9

<p>"it seems you have a tradition in your posts of trying to defend/praise Cornell in every which way you can, no matter what counterexamples are brought up, and saying that anyone who has a problem with Cornell has a problem with themselves"</p>

<p>well, I've been to another university that really did have the problems you cited and its rather bumming to see people not appreciate what's available to them. I have many friends on and off campus, and the overwhelming trend is that those who don't like the social scenes aren't very proactive about anything and usually sit sit there and whine about boredom while not joining any clubs or even moving away from the TV. This isn't Cornell's problem, it's theirs. Even you admitted that your involvement is just average. </p>

<p>"i dont think anyone will argue that frats are not a big deal here"</p>

<p>i'll agree that they're a big deal, though I will argue relentlessly that they're just one aspects of many on campus. I encourage you to really explore your options. </p>

<p>"But if I do research with a distinguished prof. my soph year I have a stronger chance."</p>

<p>but then you lose your argument of "the professors and university in general have a profound disconnect with undergraduates" and are left to resort with complaining about the greek system as I trust you'll take a proactive approach the the social environment on campus and will get involved ... if not for strengthening your application, then for learning about the university and what it has to offer to the thousands of students that don't go out to frat parties thursday through saturday.</p>

10

<p>"gomestar, with all due respect, isn't 1337 a student at Cornell and thus well aware of the environment there?"</p>

<p>Cornell is a place with over 20,000 students from every part of the US and hundreds of countries all over the world. There's 700 student clubs on campus, ivy league athletics, one of the premier collegetowns in the US, entertainment provided by the university on a weekly basis, and various social organizations providing entertainment throughout various parts of the semester ... I'm sure he/she is aware of A environment, but I doubt it's possible to summarize the environment of a vast place like Cornell into one type/group of people. Also, I don't think it's fair to limit the 'environment' of such a large place without having done much exploring or finding that niche group of people or friends that suits your particular interests. I think would agree that this can make all the difference. I didn't like the greek scene either so I started hanging out with people that didn't go to frat parties ... now, I don't even notice the greek system on campus besides people wearing greek hoodies. I agree that there is a heavy greek presence, but I disagree that it dictates the 'environment' on campus ... there's just too many aspects to the Cornell experience to sum it up in one 'environment' and I don't think a freshmen should be the one giving the conclusion.</p>

11

<p>1337's summary of the environment does not necessarily constitute a fact. The fact that your experience has been different does not change his experience; it is good that you are trying to convince him of the good that Cornell has to offer, but if he has already made up his mind to transfer, the purpose of the thread would be better served by helping him with the process. Applying to schools to transfer does not mean he will definitely leave Cornell, and he should have time to make sure his choice is the right one, but considering schools and applying now is in no way a bad decision.</p>

12

<p>Since transfer is a major undertaking with uncertain outcome, and also I assume your problem is mainly social rather than academical, I would suggest that you seek out local student chapter of an enginerring society to joint to provide you with social support. I read that at Cornnel engineering, there is a group of student developing low tech engineering for under-developed world. This may be appealing to you.</p>

13

<p>"but considering schools and applying now is in no way a bad decision."</p>

<p>but picking and choosing schools that may lack in the improvements in the areas he's citing as looking for a change is a bad decision. You even said that Penn probably won't fix the party scene problem, while I said that columbia and harvard aren't exactly the places to fix the problem of a "disconnect between the profs and the students." If Cornell "is a depressing atmosphere day-by-day, I feel like its draining the life out of me" then the OP should have no problem looking at other schools of lesser prestige than Cornell ... otherwise I wonder how bad the problem could really be.</p>

14

<p>in the end i'm arguing that the OP should really go out and explore what Cornell has to offer as I'm not certain that transfering will solve the issues in a snap. </p>

<p>just look at the bball/simbajune saga ... that kid also had rather subjected reasons to transfer, and rather than heeding my warning and exploring Cornell and the resources on hand, he ended up making what he described as "the worst decision of my life" upon transfering. I should add he also had close to a 4.0, though with very few EC's was rejected by all of the ivys he applied to.</p>

15

<p>point well made gomestar. but if he does want to have the option of transferring, he needs to start and finish the process very soon.</p>

16

<p>yes, though he/she mentioned something about working with a professor next year ... so perhaps the timeline is rather open?</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
just look at the bball/simbajune saga ... that kid also had rather subjected reasons to transfer, and rather than heeding my warning and exploring Cornell and the resources on hand, he ended up making what he described as "the worst decision of my life" upon transfering. I should add he also had close to a 4.0, though with very few EC's was rejected by all of the ivys he applied to.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not sure he had a problem with the environment of Cornell, just the SAT average of its admitted students and overall prestige.</p>

18

<p>I thought bball had something like a 3.6?</p>

19

<p>lol nspeds, that's pretty accurate. hmm I'm starting to think I'd like an LAC atmosphere more, but the problem is that not many LAC's are very strong in the pure sciences. Oh well, I think I'll apply to Penn/CC maybe Amherst? visit them, and then have a very tough decision to make of whether to transfer or not. Gomestar, I'll try to find the good things Cornell has to offer as much as I can, and perhaps it wont be so bad after all. We'll see.</p>

20

<p>Gomestar:</p>

<p>I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you need to be less insistive about Cornell. Now I know you are going to come right back and list some flaws with Georgetown, and frankly, I don't care. Georgetown has many flaws, some of which compelled me to apply for transfer after my first year; however, every school has its flaws. Cornell is definitely not a perfect school, and I have absolutely no regrets not applying and attending.</p>

<p>A dose of critical edge goes a long way; try sitting in your dorm room for two hours to think about the ways Cornell could be better.</p>