<p>By the way, congratulations on your Presidential Research Scholar status. What did you decide to research?</p>
<p>I am going to do some research in poli sci/economics, contrary to what I thought I would be doing last year (biology or chemistry).</p>
<p>Have you decided on your faculty mentor yet? When your project is underway, you might be happier at Cornell.</p>
<p>I have not read your earlier posts, and will therefore take your concerns at face value. A number of the culture issues you describe at Cornell are ones I have heard repeatedly over the years. One acquaintance recently joked that "even joining a frisbee team is a major competitive undertaking at Cornell". So, while you may have gone in with pre-conceived notions, it doesn't mean your perceptions are wrong.</p>
<p>Based on your expressed concerns, Brown sounds like a great choice. My daughter did the pre-med track there (along with majoring in psych), and while she worked hard, there was a much more supportive environment than you are describing. She never mentioned the cut-throat stuff you are experiencing, and no one ever even discusses grades there...it's kind of a taboo thing. As for weather, it's typical NE, but it's probably a little less biting than Ithaca. And Providence is great in and of itself, plus you're only an hour from Boston.</p>
<p>bball;</p>
<p>You're getting lots of straight talk on this thread--and you need it.</p>
<p>Hate the competitive atmosphere at Cornell? My Lord boy, your obsession with your 3.6 GPA is a stark indication of your extremely competitive nature. You must be one of the most competitive 18 year olds on CC. Robrym is right. You need to be honest with yourself about your own flaws and limitations. Your hyper-competitiveness would/will absolutely hinder your social/intellectual life--wherever you are.</p>
<p>The prestige of Cornell isn't good enough for you? Again, you are splitting nano-hairs in that department. The fact that you have been doing so since October--another negative in the worry column. Honey, prestige obsession isn't going to improve your social life/intellectual satisfaction. Envy is one of the 7 Deadly Sins for good reason.</p>
<p>Would you consider getting some counselling from Cornell next semester? Tranfering isn't going to fix what is ailing you.</p>
<p>i am not even kidding about the grades, like for a bio prelim, everyone on the floor will be asking everyone what u got, what percentage, discussing questions with you, kids that aren't even in bio. I had engineers that i barely even spoke with who came up to me and were like what did u get on the last bio test even before I checked my grade online. In addition, you might be surprised that on bio exams, after each test, the professor holds a session where you can argue for other acceptable answers. The problem is that if he accepts choice A and C for an answer, only ppl with those 2 answers get credit. What ends up happening, is that people who don't do that well go up and argue incessantly, and he eventually budges and takes back answers that "aren't the best answer," and the mean grade rises, and hurts everyone at the top. What this does is that people who would normally get an A-, get a B+, a B+ student might get a B. I have a friend who got +/- 2 percent of me on every exam, and ended up with an A- for the course. Why? This is because he always went and argued for ridiculous questions and got back answers just for the ones he put. Thus, his grade was always raised, while someone like me never got anything back. In a curved class, I feel that this is inexecusable. This student I am talking about is also the same person that did an optional lecture presentation for the class, and the professor likes him a lot. It is no wonder why he always gets points back for himself, for some really ridiculous stuff. I hope these games aren't played at other universities.</p>
<p>counseling for what? I don't care about prestige anymore, if you have read my posts. I want another competitive school perhaps closer to a city that isn't as cut-throat and uninviting as Cornell is. I am applying to Rice University, a phenomenal school, maybe not as prestigious, but I am strongly considering attending, something I didn't do last year. In terms of social interactions, I have gone out many times on the weekend with friends. I also have been spent some of those weekends studying and hanging out in the dorm. I don't need a counselor, I just want to get this right this time.</p>
<p>Hey Donemom:
Its hard to compare two completely different schools such as Brown and Cornell, other than that they are both in the Ivy League and they are both great institutions. I agree with you that the OP would probably be happier at a school like Brown, but the culture at Cornell has improved so much over the years, and is not nearly as cutthroat as its reputation implies. The rumored competition at Cornell has become an urban legend at this point. You will only find that kind of competition in the Pre-Med (Science) courses and in the Engineering track, but that stands true for those kids at any upper level institution.</p>
<p>I'm also thinking about how you can craft your essays. Certainly, the best option would be to find specific academic attributes of the schools that you're applying to, that Cornell doesn't have. But, absent that, or even in addition, I'm not sure it would be bad to discuss a desire for a more collaborative learning environment, where the love of learning seems to be the driving force of the student culture. I would be interested in hearing others' thoughts on this, in case this direction is too risky.</p>
<p>There has been massive grade inflation at Cornell (more than at other Ivy Schools) - grade deflation at Cornell (and UChicago) is one of those urban myths that refuses to die:</p>
<p>What the OP is in fact witnessing is pre-med "weed out", very common at top colleges (JHU probably being the prime example), and it seems to be working, as it has driven the OP from biology to poli. sci., despite the fact that he is doing just fine in biology. One would likely find similar "weed-out" at Northwestern, and a bunch of the other Ivies (the percentages of Yalies going on to medical school in the past 25 years has dropped by 66%.)</p>
<p>Another anecdote: my son is a pre-med at Harvard, and I have specifically asked him whether he feels that cut-throat competitiveness. He says not so far (he's only taken the first required "life-science" class). Also, among his friends and suite-mates, (almost all science or math majors), grades are almost never discussed. I think the sort of thing the OP describes is also considered decidedly uncool at Harvard.</p>
<p>Oh, and re Mini's post:
1.When we visited Johns Hopkins, it was absolutely striking: we REPEATEDLY heard kids discussing their grades as they walked to class (granted, it was right after intersession, so they must have just gotten their semester grades). That stood out in our minds in comparison to the other schools.</p>
<ol>
<li> That article may not be contradicting what the OP is saying. The overall GPA's may be going up because students know which "gut" courses to take. But that doesn't mean that in the pre-med and other serious courses, the grading, competitiveness, and overall intensity could still be extremely rough.</li>
</ol>
<p>Mini, look at what u just posted, in 2000, the average GPA at Cornell was a 3.25. Look at grade inflation.com, you will see that the average GPA at other comparable schools such as Northwestern, etc were around 3.37-3.4. I know that doesn't sound like much, but it is pretty significant considering how many students are in the samples (the entire student body).</p>
<p>Sorry, but I did read it, and the report it was based on, and in 2004, at Cornell it was just under 3.35. Absolutely insignificant. But the pre-med weed out seems to have worked, didn't it? I'd be quite surprised if you didn't find the same at Northwestern, or any number of other schools.</p>
<p>If this really is your major concern, have you considered schools with virtual 100% admission to med. schools, no pre-med weed-outs, and much higher percentages of undergrad research published in peer-reviewed journals than any of the Ivies, or Northwestern, or Rice? (I'm thinking specifically of Hope and Kalamazoo.)</p>
<p>i have heard that places that have higher than 90-95 percent med acceptance rates have a weed out device, whether it be in the class or restrictions on giving out recs.</p>
<p>You've heard wrong. (I would have suggested Xavier, but who knows if they're ever coming back?)</p>
<p>I have a bit of a different perspecitve than many of the posters on this board. I attended Cornell many years ago and had exactly the same experience as you. The weather was depressing and I missed a city atmosphere. I tried to hang on, which I really shouldn't have done. I eventually transferred to Columbia and was so much happier. I really needed the stimulation of a city atmosphere. I found the students at Columbia to be more "sophisticated" somehow and interested in a wider world. As I said, looking back, I should have transferrred even earlier than I did and saved myself a lot of misery.</p>
<p>I just spent several days with a relative who is a freshman at Cornell in the school of Engineering. He's from NYC, loves Cornell and spoke quite a bit about the competitive nature, but he didn't mind it. </p>
<p>As someone who grew up in lower Delaware (where schools closed when there was a flurry) and then lived in upstate NY for four long winters, I would also agree with the point about dressing more warmly. I have a hard time functioning when I'm cold and those NY winters are LONG. Around here in PA, the kids often wear the silky long underwear shirts. Armor-all? I loved our time in NY and the long winters made Spring especially beautiful and appreciated.</p>
<p>Bball,</p>
<p>Okay, I think now you have laid out the information a bit more.
I am glad you have a while to look at this more carefully.</p>
<p>It is time to stop worrying about everyone else's grade grubbing behavior and start to think about what will make you a happy, content person who eats healthfully and likes the people they are with at school. </p>
<p>You have absolutely no control over what anyone else does (the students, the profs) and there is a good chance you will find that behavior at every other school on your list (to one extent or another, of course, there will always be a competitive tempo at these schools- some more than others-- but since it is such a huge focus to you, you will always see it). If you are 200% sure you want pre-med consider a 7 year PLME type program...and apply to schools like GW as well... If you are not 200% sure, then I would also advocate looking at some LAC's with a strong sense of community and support. </p>
<p>I think issues like weather and proximity to a city are genuine, and I would not be quick to discount them. These sorts of things are more worriesome for some people than others, only you can assess their true significance to you...You report feeling not concerned with IVY prestige- I am not so sure I am seeing that in every thing you write, but before you submit any application, you have to come to grips with this issue...will a school only be 'right' if it is Ivy?</p>
<p>The only person within your control is you. Stop worrying about your classmates SAT scores and start to learn about what is really interesting about them- even if you are only going to stay at Cornell for one more semester, it is the sort of habit that would serve you well ultimately.</p>
<p>Talk with your friends who are just back home for the holiday. Are they all loving everything about their schools? My son, who is a freshman at one of your preferred schools, has his minor complaints- but also the attitude that it will take time to find a perfect fit within a very new environment.</p>
<p>Finally, reflect on the conversations you had last April...whom do you most wish you had listened to then? Go back and talk with whomever that was...</p>
<p>bball:</p>
<p>your credibility is shrinking on your reasons for transfer. First, you claim gpa. Second, you claim weather. Third, you claim sick family member. Then, you focus on med school acceptance rates. Child: WHAT is important to YOU? But, you only consider other Ivies (and near Ivies). Be honest to yourself, if not to us.</p>
<p>My read is that you want to be pre-med, and just found out it ain't easy, and now, you are looking for an easier route.</p>
<p>An unhappy student asked for help, but a lot of the responses are more "You deserve to be unhappy because you care too much about prestige, grades, and weather". Well, so what if OP does care about these things? A lot of people do. Recognizing what matters is an important step in finding the right college. </p>
<p>Although there MAY be colleges with high acceptance rates but no formal weed out mechanisms, there are certainly plenty with high rates and exactly the sort of weed out that the OP raises. Remember that "weedout" can also describe honest counselling. If a premed advisor tells a student with a C+ GPA and a 25 on the MCAT that there is little chance of getting in medical school, is that weeding out, or being helpful? What about telling the same thing to a C- student the same thing before they invest in the MCAT? Applying to medical school is difficult, time consuming and expensive. To encourage someone with no realistic chance of getting in is not doing them a service. </p>
<p>Do not believe that there are places with secret backdoors into med school for people with low GPA's and MCAT's. Such places do not exist. At Hope, for example, the premed results are summarized as </p>
<p>"during the past 10 years (1995 through 2004), 90 percent of the Hope applicants whose grade point averages were 3.4 or above were accepted by medical schools. "</p>
<p>Well, that is 90%, not 95% or higher, and it is of those with GPA's of 3.4 or higher, not all students who have embarked upon premed coursework, or those who have made it through. Many of these students (likely responsible for the high percentage) had GPA's much higher than 3.4. So group in the 3.9 students with the 3.4's and you get a high overall acceptance rate. For comparison, 3.4 is about the average GPA of Princeton students accepted to medical school.</p>
<p>bball, although not all of the advice is helpful, do try to think through what you are hearing. If prestige is important to you, ask yourself why. If you would only be comfortable with a place comparable in prestige to Cornell, then your options are limited. You can certainly find places where the premedical culture is different, but there is no assurance that your GPA will be higher. You can certainly find warmer weather, but ask just how important this is. Do not let other try to talk you out of your core values. If Cornell does not fit, then it does not fit. No sense in trying to redesign yourself to make it fit.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>