Parents of non-NM finalists, did your kid get scholarships at OOS state universities?

Parents Forum
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<p>At this point, we need to let the chips fall where they may. That’s one of the pros and cons of private homeschooling. I have tried to tailor his education, but of course, a college has the right to admit or not admit a student if he/she doesn’t satisfy admissions requirements. I didn’t try to meet the a-g requirements with certified courses. And he doesn’t have AP scores. He’ll have three SAT subject tests and transferable courses.</p>

<p>There were reasons why my oldest son didn’t apply to any UCs and this was one of them. I still remember having a conversation with an admissions officer at UCSD in the fall of my oldest son’s junior year since he was considering applying a year early. This guy said, “Well, he’s more qualified than most UCSD students, but if he gets rejected, you can appeal.”</p>

<p>Private schools are much more holistic which works well for less conventional homeschooling. I have known private homeschoolers to get into UCs, so it’s not unknown. Most use the “admit by test scores” exception. Most of the private homeschoolers I interact with only apply to UCs and not Cal States, because those that consider Cal States typically just do the community college to transfer route. I have known homeschoolers who have been admitted to our local Cal State with much lower scores than my son. However, they weren’t privately homeschooling; they were in PSPs (Private Satellite Program).</p>

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<p>By “private homeschooling” you mean using a curriculum not associated with any regular (public or private) high school?</p>

<p>But you still may want to check the a-g list to see if his college courses and SAT subject test scores cover all of them.</p>

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<p>"U Cinn does not require a portfolio: - in fact, I do not believe that they take it at all, Although it was many years ago, my S. could not submit his strong porfolio to them, they made decision stronglybased on stats and it was very negative for him as he was put on a waiting list. But as I also mentioned, Cinci does not offer much in Merit awards and being state public, I am not sure, but it may be expensive OOS. My D. who received great Merit awards on other places, got very small amount at Cinci (she was pre-med). </p>

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<p>ucb, </p>

<p>Here in CA, there are four ways to “homeschool”. One of the options is filing a Private School Affidavit, which, in essence, creates a private school. You fill out the form which simply informs the state of your intent to start a private school. As with <em>all</em> private schools in CA, the state neither approves nor disapproves. CA is one of the better states in regard to freedom. Yes, attending school is mandatory, but they have no jurisdiction over private schools, whether they house 1 student or 1000 students.</p>

<p>There are suggestions for private school curriculum, but no mandates since we don’t take Govt. money.</p>

<p>Most of us who file privately follow fairly traditional routes-you know, 4+ years of math, 4+ years of English, 3-4 years of science, 2-3 years of social sciences, etc.</p>

<p>So, yes, my son would easily meet the a-g requirements on his coursework, but of course, the coursework has come from various non-accredited institutions such as AoPS, local co-op, other online classes, self-study and community college.</p>

<p>And no, he will not have enough tests to cover 14 a-g subjects since he didn’t do APs. They only look at courses through junior year, and I believe you have to have finished 11 out of the 14 requirements.</p>

<p>So, if he decides to apply to UCs and Cal States, he does so knowing that his high SAT, presumably good subject tests and good grades in community college classes might not be enough.</p>

<p>Miami,</p>

<p>I am pretty sure U Cinn ID isn’t for my son as someone on a different thread spoke of how intense it is. They said kids get about 5 hours of sleep a night in the program. That would not work for my son.</p>

<p>We still haven’t had “the talk” since he just finished his time consuming job last night. He’s got a boatload of math to do this week to finish his summer class, so we’ll talk the week after that.</p>

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<p>Sbjdorlo- I would think for the UC and Cal State schools his grades in the community college would show his ability to do college work. Are most of the CC classes he has taken listed as transferable. I don’t have it handy right now but I know there is a site you can put in the Community college and the UC and they will tell you what course it is equivalent to at the UC. </p>

<p>The site is assist.org</p>

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<p>Note that <a href=“http://doorways.ucop.edu”>http://doorways.ucop.edu</a> will show if CC courses satisfy a-g requirements. Also note that one course can satisfy multiple courses’ worth of a-g requirements (e.g. precalculus or calculus satisfies the entire math requirement, except for geometry at UCs; foreign language at a certain level satisfies all lower levels; college frosh level English satisfies all four years of English).</p>

<p>CC course transferability to UCs and CSUs is at <a href=“http://www.assist.org”>http://www.assist.org</a> .</p>

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<p>The problem is that last year’s courses, with the exception of general physics, were more exploratory in nature since my son is trying to figure out what it is he wants to major in: Intro to Engineering, Architectural Drafting, Trig, Physics and Animation. This summer, he’s just taking two units of refresher math in order to test out of pre-calculus. (He’ll be taking the math challenge exam in a few weeks)</p>

<p>It’s only this fall and then the spring that he’ll be taking more “meaty” classes: Calc I (presumably), English 105, Italian 101 and 102, and then two other meaty classes in the spring, possibly Calc II, Mechanics, or Java, possibly Philosophy, Art History or 2D Art. He can only take 3 classes a semester since the max he could do would be 16 units and the math, physics and language courses are all 5 units. Plus, this will be a big leap for him, and I want to make sure he’s not tackling too much. He’ll also take a class at our co-op, most likely philosophy.</p>

<p>The UCs only count classes through junior year. Yes, his current GPA at the CC is good, but he’s still unproven until mid-year grades come out, for schools like the UCs and Cal States.</p>

<p>I’ve been on Assist many times trying to see what would be best for his last two courses in the spring.</p>

<p>It’s a little crazy for some programs. For instance, SJSU requires Introductory Physics, or Physics 100 in our area. Well, my son took the harder trig-based physics, 125. The problem is, 125 is only 1/2 the subject matter. He didn’t learn about E&M (or not too much), Waves, Optics or Nuclear physics. That would be in 126. But the math required is more advanced.</p>

<p>At CSULB, 125 would be perfectly fine to transfer, but for SJSU, he’d have to take Physics 100.</p>

<p>So, it’s rather complicated depending on what major he might do.</p>

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<p>I think you are making it rather complicated, all due respect.</p>

<p>I’m not sure your son has had enough of the foundational type courses to support the various majors he may or may not be interested in, in order to figure out HOW interested he is in them. And I think it’s too early in the game to be knocking out options which appear to be affordable AND which he can likely get admitted to, on the basis of NOT having a major which he may or may not end up exploring.</p>

<p>There is a reason that a traditional HS sequence requires what they require- and it’s not just because the Ed Lobby is a bunch of bureaucrats. If it were me, I’d encourage my kid to take what looks like a traditional HS program for the rest of the HS career… Java? drop that like a hot stone, much more important that he’s completed a full year of physics including E&M. </p>

<p>I get that your son has had non-traditional needs and thus has had a non-traditional education. But normalizing his curriculum going forward isn’t just going to make applying to college easier; it will make it easier for him to start to focus on what he wants to study. </p>

<p>Is Italian the only foreign language he’ll have studied? (sorry if I missed that.) If he’s already got fluency/proficiency in a foreign language, I’d be advocating for completing the math/science/lab sequence in lieu of another language…</p>

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<p>I think Blossom has some good points. If he already has another foreign language skip the Italian. If one goal is saving money concentrate on taking classes that count. If he is pretty set on some form of design take 2d or 3d design. Most design programs will require it before you take other classes. It is called different things at different schools. This is where assist will help. At Long Beach Design 120a is equivalent to 2d design.Many also want to see a Freehand drawing before taking other art classes. By having the foundation classes out of the way he will be free to take more indepth courses. If he decides to do engineering those art classes can satisfy a fine arts GE requirement.Maybe get a GE sort of class out of the way.
Almost every class my youngest took at the CC during high school counted for some form of GE credit.
My S considered Industrial Design or engineering. He ultimately decided to study Graphic Design. graphic Design is a major that can appear in a lot of different departments. At some places it is more computer science oriented, others art based and still others marketing and advertising based. My S made the decision that he wanted a BFA in Graphic Design. His program provided a strong foundation in the arts but was weak on computer web based design. </p>

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<p>I appreciate the advice, truly.</p>

<p>So, he’s had bio, chemistry and physics. Also in the category of STEM, I’ve added the Intro to Engineering, .25 unit Alice class, and the Architectural drafting. So he’s had three lab sciences.</p>

<p>Some relevant history: he had both a hearing loss and a vision disability. He had surgery for his hearing at the end of soph year and was finally fitted for an aid during his junior year. So, I opted to wait on foreign language because of the subtleties, so no, he’s had no other f. lang except a year of Latin in 8th grade, the equivalence of a semester of Latin.</p>

<p>He also had eye surgery this past December, and only fully recovered from the surgery about March or April. Basically, his eyes didn’t converge before and reading has been painful and tiring for years. The doc tightened up one eye and now my son can read much more comfortably than he ever could. (And he’d done 3 years of therapy with no effect since it was diagnosed so late)</p>

<p>Again, because of that, we accommodated by limiting AP level classes that required extensive reading.</p>

<p>So, for his senior year, the required classes to graduate (my requirements based on 24 units including 4 Math, 4 English, 2 Foreign Language, 4 Sciences, 2 College Prep, and 4 Arts and Electives, and 4 Social Sciences), he still needs:</p>

<p>Two years of foreign language (which the first semester of Italian will equal since it’s listed in the catalog as the equivalence of two years of high school language), one year of English (he has 3.5 already), and one year of math (which could be pre-calc, calc, or stats). Everything else will be extra.</p>

<p>So, his fall schedule will satisfy the remaining requirements for <em>my</em> school, and then spring will be for colleges (third year of foreign language, and two more classes).</p>

<p>So yes, because of his health issues, even more than homeschooling (homeschooling allowed my oldest to have about 70 units of college, but he was someone with no disabilities or health problems), he is unconventional.</p>

<p>That’s truly why, even with a good SAT, community college is definitely an option.</p>

<p>And he hasn’t ruled out music major (cello performance possibly), either! On days like today when he feels stressed about his math disability, he wonders if he should just give up. </p>

<p>He’s been given a lot to deal with in his young life, but he’s trying to just press forward.</p>

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<p>Your son sounds great (and so do you.) But I really wouldn’t get caught up in the nomenclature of the major for a kid with interests as diverse as your son’s. He could be in the top program for Industrial Design, and after his first class in ethnomusicology-- bye bye design. Or he may discover urban planning. Or after finishing physics may decide he’s never taking another math based course again which would completely rule out industrial design and game design and a host of computer based careers/majors.</p>

<p>If it were me (and I respectfully recognize that it’s not) I would probably want a kid with medical issues closer rather than further from home. And that might trump everything else. There is a certain comfort in being able to see any of the physicians from your son’s “team” when or if he needs to… vs. seeing a “doc in the box” at a large clinic in a city hundreds of miles away. Some colleges (you’re probably familiar with the medical center at MIT) have facilities that are really comparable to a hospital (except for ER and complex surgeries) with dozens of specialists. Others- it’s a Doc and a Physician’s Assistant on call on the weekends, and they’re going to just send your son to the ER for anything complicated. </p>

<p>So now that you’ve clarified- I’d be looking aggressively at options within an hour or two’s drive. I’d make a list. I’d figure out which are admissions and financial safeties, and which are reachier on both.</p>

<p>And then you can encourage your son to go kick the tires on that list. Some will have music performance majors, some won’t; some will allow him to patch together a gaming major and some won’t; some will have fantastic reputations in the areas he’s interested in and other’s won’t. So that’s the conversation you guys will need to have going forward.</p>

<p>But if his health has stabilized by end of Freshman year, AND he’s got more focus on what he wants to study, AND you’ve got a year of college credit under his belt at a moderate cost… there’s transferring. Or there is finishing a BA and then getting a Master’s degree (maybe with an employer paying tuition) at different type of institution.</p>

<p>But I would not be looking at as wide a range of colleges as you have- both for the financial reasons and for his health. There are thousands of people working in the gaming industry who have never even taken a course called “game design”, let alone majored in it. So his college major in no way has to limit his professional options (except if he’s interested in a music conservatory… and that’s a decision which has its own set of issues. Will he have the time and the focus and the energy for auditions?)</p>

<p>Hugs.</p>

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<p>Aw, your post brought tears to my eyes, blossom. Thank you for your compassionate advice.</p>

<p>You do understand my dilemma. I have looked at colleges around the country and yet, even though my son says he wants to go away and not to limit the choices to one area of the country, he has realized we’d need to find a good endocrinologist for his diabetes, and possibly other doctors, (though yes, his health is pretty darn stable except for low energy) a little voice inside my head says he shouldn’t go far.</p>

<p>We have also gotten him to think about a gap year. I think a gap year would be wonderful, but I think the “in the box” colleges don’t go for that, so that is something I need to check into. </p>

<p>I actually had several of the Claremont Schools on the list as reaches, because they have the very interesting Intercollegiate Media Studies major, and Pomona has music, but then I took them off again because I just don’t think he could get in or if they have what he would like. But CMC and Pomona are such interesting schools on paper. (And I’ve been to Mudd and thought it was terrific)</p>

<p>It pretty much leaves USC, UCSD, SDSU, CSULB, UCLA, and possibly UCI and Cal Baptist. And I’ve looked further up the coast, as well, at a few other schools like SLO and even Stanford, as well as SJSU. But the cost of the out of area state schools seems too much so I’m unsure about SJSU and CSULB. I haven’t looked at UCR. USD and Pt. Loma aren’t the right fit.</p>

<p>Yes, he could do auditions, I think, but I don’t think he’s interested in conservatories right now; most are way out of budget anyhow. He’s very good and with more work, his teacher definitely believes he could be at that level, but my son has historically struggled with low self-esteem and is finally realizing his worth. Interestingly, he’s doing a summer chamber music program and several of the other students he’s playing with are alums of this particular youth symphony and are current conservatory students.</p>

<p>He’ll record in August and he said he’d be game to do live auditions. Music is easy to get together since he’s playing so much right now.</p>

<p>I do appreciate the thought about his being able to transfer. Since we <em>may</em> move in the not too distant future, depending on where our oldest son ends up out of college, I will keep that in mind.</p>

<p>Thanks so much. You’ve given me a lot to think about.</p>

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<p>My older son was NM at the U. of Alabama, but the school offers an outstanding Presidential scholarship, too, based on SAT/ACT?GPA. Full tuition. If you are an engineering major, you can get as much as $2,500 extra a year, which can be put toward housing.</p>

<p>That said, my younger son was not NM. But he is going to the U. of Alabama in Huntsville. A very STEM school, too. Again, scholarships are based on the SAT/ACT/GPA. They also have a strong relationship with the hospital. You may want to check out that school, too.</p>

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<p>When does oldest graduate? What location are you looking to relocate? If it is timed right maybe a gap year with the move might open up a whole new set of possibilities?</p>

<p>We moved after oldest completed her first year in CA only to realize the whole family, including her would be better off someplace else, especially financially for us. My youngest had very specialized LDs and medical issues combined with some gifted and talented youngsters (which was just as much a struggle as the youngest) that our move across the country was our answer for affordable undergrad and grad schools.</p>

<p>I spent a year or so researching our possible locales and for as many varied reasons as I have kiddos (5) and as a single parent our move solved so many of our issues. Undergrad in NC saved us a fortune but the real “deal” was the grad schools and the ability to “get in” vs. the sheer numbers of applicants in CA. TX was also a possible for us as was TN but NC won out for the UNC system (17 campuses), the climate (4 seasons), RTP and Charlotte job prospects, low, low COL and of course, the sweet tea!</p>

<p>Even with the fantastic in-state opportunities (both public and private) some of mine opted for OOS, but those did include an ivy, a service academy and a full ride to a OOS public. But they all came home again for the grad school opportunities. Now 4 of the 5 are all close by…the 5th has relocated because is GF is in school (masters) at USC. So depending on what she and he want to do after she finishes they might very well end up here as well. </p>

<p>So I wouldn’t rule out a gap year just yet, p’ton has been pushing the gap year seeing the benefit of it. Many of son’s friends at p’ton took a gap year or two before starting. Son took a glide year between undergrad and med school and it only helped his app season.</p>

<p>One of the best gifts you can give your son is the gift of time. He needs that time to explore and figure out what he would like to study. Son at p’ton, now in med school is getting his MD/MBA, he still doesn’t know what he will do!
He has a degree in econ from p’ton and a certificate in hellenic studies…and a BS in biochem AND microbiology AND genetics (what he did during his glide year)…and now an MD/MBA. Time was what he needed…and he is one of the gifted and talented…his younger bro (had LD and med issues) wanted to be a chef and he is indeed a chef. Went to cooking school and now does what makes him happy.</p>

<p>I would take your time and keeping looking at schools and maybe keep your older son in the loop so he can have some input as well for the possible relocation. Even if he stays in the NE you could always pick something within driving distance or a quick plan ride. Son flies from here (RDU) into JFK and LG, Newark and Philly pretty regularly to visit with friends and business stuff.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Should not be an issue with UCs or CSUs, as long as the student has not taken any college courses after the summer immediately after high school graduation (doing so disqualifies the student from frosh admission, so he would then have to apply as a transfer after completing the prerequisites at another college, usually a CC). Of course, with frosh application after a gap year, course work taken as a HS senior will have been completed with grades completely visible.</p>

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<p>Kat,</p>

<p>Thanks for sharing your story. I concur that researching this stuff takes a lot of time and thought. It sounds like things have worked out very well for your kids! I’m encouraged by your P’ton son’s story-seems that it’s ok not to know what you want to do even after a BS and being in the MD/MBA program.</p>

<p>My oldest has two more years and will almost certainly not do grad school. I think a lot will depend on possible future spouse and where our oldest might end up, and right now, while there’s an inkling of an idea, really, we don’t know. We definitely do keep him in the loop, but I think he truly doesn’t know what he wants to do and where he wants to live.</p>

<p>ucb and Kat, isn’t a gap year taken after a student applies? Or in my son’s case, would it be better to not apply this fall, graduate, take a gap year and do stuff he’s wanted to do (work more as a musician, train more, take some art or design classes at non-traditional schools, write a book, make that game he’s been working on, find an internship, etc.) and then apply for fall of 2016?</p>

<p>Also, he has his testing partly done and lined up for this fall. Would his SAT still be valid since I think they’re changing it for fall, 2016 students?</p>

<p>I’m not really concerned about his grades. He’s done what he has to and gotten good grades except for the B in trig. But, yes, math his his nemesis, and he’s gotten by with a lot of outside help in his math classes. So we’ll see how the fall math turns out. </p>

<p>Can you believe he’s now thinking about creative writing as a major? Funny, when he was very little and very verbally gifted, I had thought he’d be an author. Then came years of shutting down and now he’s coming around again. He has so many ideas swirling around in his head.</p>

<p>From architecture to engineering to animation to game design to music to CS & arts, to industrial design and now to creative writing… Crazy, huh?</p>

<p>I do want to buy him time but we’re both so torn. He keeps saying he doesn’t want to do a gap year, but knows it could be the best thing.</p>

<p>Of course, I was looking forward to the discount of having two in college at the same time, ha-ha.</p>

<p>And honestly, I was looking forward to being done directing his education so we can focus on our youngest child who also has some “special needs”.</p>

<p>Well, much to pray and think about.</p>

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<p>SBJ- other than the health issues and the home schooling (and the obvious tenacity to push through) your son sounds very typical. If your eldest was set in a path while in HS, and stuck to that path, he is an outlier.</p>

<p>We joked that one of my kids was on the “new major a week” plan in college. Some of them felt like a good fit based on skills and interests; others were totally random. That’s what a lot of kids do at college- try things on, feel their way through a new interest and topic, decide what works and what doesn’t.</p>

<p>I would not box my kid in by picking the perfect school for XYZ major (let’s pick cello performance or creative writing) only to discover that it was a terrible place for him overall once he decided he wanted to major in Sustainable Design or Food policy.</p>

<p>Find a big school with tons of cool things going on; make sure it’s going to meet his medical needs; make sure you can afford it.</p>

<p>He will find his way. And if that means he majors in graphic design and his future employer sends him back to school to learn programming-- s’ok. Or if he gets a job writing and editing a company’s blog/social media properties and has to teach himself the latest design software packages- s’ok.</p>

<p>I think the big question is music performance or not (since those skills are not going to be fungible). And if he’s not ready to make that decision yet- then a gap year to thoroughly explore a bunch of his interests sounds like a good solution. And if he doesn’t want to do a gap year, and cannot find a college with conservatory or college with music performance major that fits his other criteria- then that decision will end up getting made for him.</p>

<p>I know several adults who were set on a music performance degree early on who shifted gears. One had decided that if he couldn’t get into the Julliard/Curtis level place, then he’d go to “regular college”. And he did and never looked back. One had an injury which never fully resolved. And one has continued to be a musical “weekend warrior” while having a good and fulfilling career doing something unrelated.</p>

<p>I don’t know any ambivalent music performance majors. You’re either in or out as far as I can tell. So if your son needs another year to figure it out- seems like a good plan.</p>

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<p>I did the three college, three majors seven year plan, but college was so much cheaper back then, and really, I ended up at the state school cause I ran out of money (or my parents and I did) for the private school. I enjoyed learning-still do-, but I have no great memories of the state school since I was a commuter. I have good memories of the dance training I got at the private, though. </p>

<p>I agree another year would be nice. I think both my older boys would really like my middle son to have the chance to be a part of a college community, if possible.</p>

<p>Yes, my oldest was an outlier, for sure.</p>

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<p>Just one more question, if you all don’t mind.</p>

<p>Since my son isn’t settled on a major, and the UCs and Cal States require you to apply to a major, how do we reconcile the two?</p>

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<p>SBJ, just finished reading most of this thread and had to put “my two cents” in. Your son sounds very typical of most 17-18 year old boys. Not many know exactly what they want to do, and I think it is okay for him to take a year to decide. He could do that by being “undeclared” as a freshman, taking the basics that everyone needs. He could do this at a 4 year college or at one of California’s wonderful CCs. The downside to a CC though is that he would lose his “freshman” status and the scholarship opportunities that go with it. He could also do this by taking a gap year. From my understanding universities are okay with this as long as the gap year includes something productive, such as working in the music industry etc., or because of health reasons. If he goes to a 4 year college I would suggest one you could “drive” to in 12 hours or less. This way if something happens to his health, you can get there without worrying about plane schedules. My son is a Type 1 diabetic and we got a call around 9:00 pm one night that he was heading to the emergency room. It was sure nice that my husband could jump in the car and be by his side 6 hours later. </p>

<p>I know NOTHING about the California universities, but if they require you to apply with a major just have your son pick one that might interest him. Like most colleges, I am sure he can change it a dozen times afterwards if he wanted (of course this is how people end up in college for 6 years). Good luck on his college decision!</p>