<p>Kelowna: that is awesome Congrats to you and your son!</p>
<p>About AP scores vs. SAT II, etc: I am in the middle of reading “A is for Admissions” by Michelle Hernandez (she used to be an adcom for Dartmouth, now she’s an independent college consultant.) The chapter I just read explained the AI or Academic Index that is used in Ivy League schools. In that formula, SAT II scores, SAT I scores and converted class rank score all play equal rates in the AI formula. AP scores are not a factor. There’s even a blurb and calculator about AI here on CC: [The</a> Academic Index - Ivy League Admissions Key? - College Confidential](<a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index.htm]The”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index.htm)</p>
<p>But those are really a factor at the handful of top schools. And AP scores shouldn’t play a part either, since most schools won’t see them until after admission; it’s usually a factor if you’ve taken “the most challenging courses available” vs. the actual scores before admission.</p>
<p>The book is very outdated is all I can say. It does give a student a false confidence. D1’s AI score was also very high. In fact, I would eliminate Dartmouth from D2’s list. Only URM(American Indian) from our school was accepted. From our school’s naviance, high GPA kids with high SAT scores were rejected. Check your school’s naviance.</p>
<p>Her initial book was released in the late 90’s right after she left Dartmouth. She released an updated edition around the 10th anniversary. I think what she’s trying to do is help students, parents and counselors understand some of the “back room” decision making process, but I certainly don’t take anything I read as gospel. It’s just another piece of the puzzle.</p>
<p>Most people take little time to understand the college process. A very smart girl I know was talking about how her school had a 10% admission rate. I thought that sounded highly unlikely which it was. She was taking the fact that 4,000 freshman would attend out of 40,000 applications as a 10% acceptance rate, when the fact was the school had close to a 50% acceptance rate with a 25% yield. HS counselors often don’t understand the nuances of admissions and they certainly do a bad job of explaining them to parents and students. Anyone who tries to demystify the process can be helpful.</p>
<p>It really depends, on HS mostly, but sometimes on individual kid. Like I have said before, the HS my DS attends is really competitive and you see freshman taking AP classes. By the time they apply to colleges, some of the kids have 7-8 scores already on their AP report. </p>
<p>To change the subject - we were thinking about visiting Boston area colleges this fall, but recently DS said that he does not want to tour until he has been accepted
I think it is an influence of his friend, this year senior, who has not seen any beforehand but has been accepted at a handful of really good schools - Stanford, Caltech, MIT and some others - all early admission. I am not going to push, but was actually looking forward to visiting Boston - have never been there. He does have some ideas how colleges look and function, has been to a few so far. Do you think it is normal to have this
negative feeling towards visits? </p>
<p>@RobD - thanks for the congrats -I still can’t believe it…feels like I have won a lottery or something…</p>
<p>Kelowna: if he’s resisting, I’d say wait until later in junior year or the beginning of senior year. It’s early, and while it’s nice to get some visits out of the way, if he’s not in the right mindset then it may backfire. </p>
<p>Re: AP scores. While a student can self report, generally AP scores are only sent after you decide to enroll. D2 will have 4 APs completed by next years application season, but I don’t expect that she’ll send them during the admissions season. Are there any schools that require you to send them with your application?</p>
<p>Kelowna: Congrats to your son!! How very exciting! I wouldn’t push him to visit. It is completely appropriate to visit after he is accepted. Or maybe next year he will change his mind.</p>
<p>I know with S2 we didn’t send any AP scores, I can’t remember if we self-reported them. We did put the AP Scholar recognition (or whatever it was called) under the “honors/awards” section. </p>
<p>S3 started his summer schedule today. Since he won’t get his license for a few more weeks S2 has been driving him to his various sports activities. S2 exclaimed “do you know how tiring this is?” Uh, yes! I had three kids!!</p>
<p>It’s well within the range of “normal.” Some kids just aren’t interested in visiting colleges until later in the process. Nothing wrong with that, as long as he has other means to develop a realistic list of schools to apply to. We’ve visited a ton of schools with our 2 Ds, one a rising sophomore at a top LAC, the other a rising HS junior. They both showed interest early, and we’ve enjoyed the visits a great deal. Partly we’re just curious—even nosy—to see what life is like at various colleges. Partly it’s just fun. Partly it does lead to some changes in thinking—with D1, mainly to rule out some schools she initially thought she might be interested in, and with D2 so far mainly to add some schools she thought might be out because of things her older sister had told her, that she ended up forming an independent judgment on (maybe partly to distinguish herself from her sister). But I honestly think we could have gotten D1 into a very good school that would have been a very good fit without ever setting foot on a campus before the acceptances came in. I think the one place it made a difference is that after visiting she felt that she had a clear #1 choice, to which she applied ED and was accepted. But if you’re not going the ED/SCEA route, visits after acceptances work just as well, and are possibly even more informative and certainly more economical.</p>
<p>I sympathize with your desire to visit Boston, but I’d go with your son’s timetable on college visits. Give him an opportunity to change his mind, though. I dunno, maybe if there’s an upcoming concert or sporting event . . . .</p>
<p>And congrats on the ACT score! D1 never had perfect scores but she hit all her targets after a number of re-takes. It’s a great feeling when it’s just done and those scores are in the bank!</p>
<p>My D1 had no interest in visiting any colleges before she applied. I dragged her to two of her local choices for “senior preview” days - but at one school it was so crowded that we left before the campus tour. So, she applied to all but those 2 colleges sight unseen. Was accepted at 4, but one was a clear front runner - so that was the only “accepted student” event that she attended. Registered and done deal! Saved a lot of money on campus visits!</p>
<p>S2 doesn’t show any interest in visiting colleges either. He and his best friend are both vaguely interested in Oklahoma City University, so the other mom and I are planning a visit. Hopefully, the kids will choose to come along! lol He did visit his sister at college this past year, so he got the “college experience” although he’s not interested in her school.</p>
<p>Please let me know which schools in the top 50 that don’t require SAT subject tests? Probably very few. I think if the SAT subject test scores are low then that is a problem. But all perfect 800 scores won’t help you gain admission to colleges in the top 50. My guess is they don’t report SAT subject test scores in CDS. If you don’t beleive me go check the acceptance thread of most selective schools and you’ll find out they reject many applicants with perfect 800 scores, even the ones with perfect uw GPA.</p>
<p>Interesting perspective. I was under the impression that for top schools self reporting good (4 and 5) AP scores would increase your chances of being admitted. Am I completely wrong here?</p>
<p>I am definitely not going to push the visits. Not visit will save me some $ for that college tuition looming on the horizon ;)</p>
<p>As for the ACT - the feeling is really surreal. I think that I am WAY more excited than he is. He actually worries right now that his friend probably did not score as well and his mom will be comparing him to DS, which the friend will of course hate, LOL Absolutely LOVING the fact that he will not have to retake it. Also thinking that it will look mighty good, that he took it only once! But what if there is a mistake and what we saw on the internet is wrong !? ;)</p>
<p>Ds1 listed AP Scholar with Distinction Award, so without reporting the exact scores colleges knew that he’d gotten an average score of at least 3.5 on all AP exams taken, and scores of 3 or higher on five or more of these exams. Reporting good scores can’t possible hurt.</p>
<p>Ds2 makes his first official visit next week! But if your ds isn’t ready, that’s fine, too. Lots of time.</p>
<p>I guess this is where I belong now, DD has decided to graduate a year early moving from 2014 to 2013…although she won’t be an official Jr until December, she will participate with the JR class starting in the fall. I can’t believe we suddenly only have 2 yrs before she leaves for college, I know time will fly by!</p>
<p>Regarding AP scores…D will have 4 or 5 scores by the time she applies. She is taking AP Music Theory along with 3 other AP’s next year, but is unsure whether she is going to take the music theory exam. Anyway, our very selective state flagship has a rep on CC and when asked if they question when AP scores are not reported on the common app when the courses have been taken, she answered that they do wonder why that is. On the other hand, our other very selective state school clearly indicates that they do not take AP scores into account in the admissions process.</p>
[quote]
Please let me know which schools in the top 50 that don’t require SAT subject tests? Probably very few.
[/quote ]
</p>
<p>WashU for one. And Middlebury, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, William & Mary, U. Rochester, U. Chicago.</p>
<p>Those are just some of the schools off my old spreadsheet for my S, who was interested in a number of Top 50 schools, and only about half of the ones on his list required subjects tests, most of which didn’t even require them when ACT scores were sent. Some of the others recommended subjects tests, but didn’t require them.</p>
<p>My D will be aiming lower, at Top 50-100ish schools, and almost none of them require subject test scores. The only one we’ve come across is BU.</p>
<p>Stanford also recommend subject tests but from what I’ve read from Harry Bauld’s essay book, anything recommended is considered a polite required.</p>
<p>What I understand is that self reporting good AP scores either validates a good grade in that class in HS or can show that a low grade in said same class was possibly the result of a tough grading system. It is another piece of information that helps adcoms compare students and the high schools they attended. I don’t think a 4 or 5 would improve your chances, but a 1 or 2 may cause adcoms to take a second look at the rest of the application, especially if the student had gotten an A in the class; it would make them question the grading and rigor at your HS.</p>
<p>Congrats to Kelowna and your son, bright future just opened door for you. It’s rare to take this test so early, my DD may want to try it later this year, she is not ready yet:) Any good prep book you can recommend?</p>
<p>Subject tests sometimes are not required if you really pick on some official document, but when one’s application without these scores compares some applications with these scores, guess who has more chances? So I would say if you can do it, why not? Just add some weight on your college application. Specially when student just finished AP for the same subject… I was told subject tests actually are easier than AP tests (my DS told me).</p>
<p>Most, actually. Yale (US News #3 university) doesn’t require SAT Subject Tests if you submit the ACT. Same with Penn (#5), Brown (#15), Duke (#9), Rice (#17), Tufts (#28), and Boston College (#31). At Stanford (#5), Northwestern (#12), Johns Hopkins (#13), Georgetown (#21), and UVA (#25) they’re “recommended” or “encouraged” but not required, though most people submit them. Chicago (#9) doesn’t want them at all. Neither does Vanderbilt (#17), Emory (#20), USC (#23), Michigan (#29). WUSTL (#13) and Notre Dame (#19) don’t require or encourage them, but will consider them if they strengthen your application. UNC Chapel Hill (#30) doesn’t require them but kindly requests you provide them if you’ve taken them as they might be helpful in placement. NYU (#33), Middlebury (#4 LAC), Hamilton (#18 LAC), Bryn Mawr #30 LAC), and Colorado College (#26 LAC) are “test-flexible” meaning you can submit whatever combination of SAT I, SAT Subject Tests, ACT, or AP scores you think will help you. Bowdoin (#6 LAC), Wake Forest (#27 university), Smith (#14 LAC), Bates (#21 LAC), Bard (#38 LAC), Union (#41 LAC), Connecticut College (#41 LAC) and Dickinson (#47 LAC) are test-optional, meaning you don’t need to submit any test scores at all if you prefer. And i’m sure there are many, many more; I just didn’t have time to research them all.</p>
<p>Quite right. Which makes AP scores a very marginal factor in the admissions process, at best confirming other information, at worst undercutting other favorable information. And since applicants are unlikely to self-report self-destructive data, and since reporting of AP scores is not required, colleges by and large get only the good news about AP scores, and take that information with an appropriate grain of salt. Consequently, AP scores account for approximately zero in the admissions process.</p>
Congrats to you and your son!</p>
Absolutely LOVING the fact that he will not have to retake it. Also thinking that it will look mighty good, that he took it only once! But what if there is a mistake and what we saw on the internet is wrong !? ;)</p>