@eandesmom —Thanks for your input as well and all the work you’ve done on the acceptances! I reviewed them thoroughly, but as you said, it’s impossible to know of anyone who submitted w/o test scores. Hopefully our child can make some dramatic improvement in May and fall sittings so this will be a non-issue; However, nice to know that there’s some hope out there! I was surprised regarding OWU also as I know it to be a quality school.
I really liked OWU, too, but we had several midwest LACs on the list and had to cull somehow. D interviewed but wasn’t impressed, so that was an easy one to cut.
@klinska --can you recall why she wasn’t impressed with OWU? just curious as it’s on our current list (that will also need to be pared back soon).
As for test optional. My older D has only a 19 ACT when she applied to schools. (GPA lower than this board and she got into 6/13 schools… some with $$) We looked at test optional for her, but that usually required submitting a writing portfolio. Since writing isn’t one of her strengths either this wasn’t really a helpful option. Mostly she was applying to art programs or she might not have gotten accepted at some of these schools.
Hi everyone. I feel this thread is a little bit gentler than the rest of CC so I’d like to bring up something sensitive (to me) for discussion. I still expect you to tell me exactly what you think … this is CC after all!
I consider my DD to be an “average” student. She’s not a real stand-out in anything except maybe swimming and she has decided not to swim in college due to the time commitment. She doesn’t test well but she has good grades (a 3.54 GPA). However, those grades don’t come easy and she works her ass off to get them. The swimming took a huge chunk out of her life (about 20 hours per week, including the time to get to the pool and back home) so she is good at time management and has fairly good study skills.
My DD wants to be a physical therapist which is a 7 year doctoral program. Pre-PT students can take any major but they must also take specific classes in order to apply to Doctor of Physical Therapy (DPT) programs and every program has a tweak in what they require. However, the ALL require certain school-wide “gatekeeper” classes with a minimum GPA: Chemistry I & II, Biology I & II and Physics I & II. These are notorious"weeder" classes for many disciplines from pre-med to engineering and she only pulled "B"s in every one of these classes in high school. I am worried that my smart but average DD will walk into the buzzsaw of curved classes designed for mass failure filled with overachieving super-students. The mean GPA in prerequisites for accepted students in accredited PT schools last year was a 3.52 so she really has to keep her eyes on the prize.
Which brings me to my concern. My DD has been accepted to a number of colleges that are basically secondary state schools (Iowa State, Illinois State, IUPUI) and she’s waitlisted at two “flagship” state schools (Wisconsin and Minnesota TC). Until now, I think I have been concentrating about getting her into the BEST school that she LOVES and the flagship schools do have a better reputation than her 2nd choice of Iowa State. But, I just came to the realization that if my DD gets into the UW or UMN she will be behind the eight-ball from the get go since she will be one of the last students to be admitted. In swim racing parlance, she will be seeded last in an event full of superfast swimmers. That doesn’t mean that she can’t or won’t do well, but I think it does mean that the flagship schools will have more competition for those B+ grades and above that she needs to be accepted into a DPT program in 4 years. I’m not saying that the other schools will be a cakewalk or that they are substandard. I think they are all very good schools that will be challenging for my DD. She’s smart but I just think she’ll have an easier time of it at Iowa State than at the UW (which is her #1 school).
Have you ever thought that your child could be over their head at one of the schools where they have been accepted? If so, how did your express your concern without being negative? Most of my DD’s friends are all of the “overachieving super-students” variety that got A’s and high ACTs without even trying so she is super sensitive about her academic challenges and achievements. Any advise for me if she gets off the waitlist at the UW? Right now she’s ready to drop Iowa State (which she really likes and where we put down a deposit) like a hot potato if that happens.
@CroissantMiser the AO (and it was an AO, I met her), seemed desperate–just didn’t give off a good vibe. and the internship opportunities didn’t seem very good. She had just attended a local info session for Denison and the focus on leveraging the proximity to Columbus for internships (D is planning on Poli Sci as her major) was highlighted, but for OWU (also near Columbus), that didn’t seem to be a thing that students were doing, or at least it wasn’t something the AO was able to speak to. She wasn’t that psyched about it in the first place, was basically humoring me to do the interview. That interview came on the heels of the info session at Denison and interview with Lawrence, both of which she was a lot more excited by.
@rbc1999 D17 is going to be attending Goucher next fall. She got into a number of schools that would be considered “harder” and are higher ranked, and Smith was one of her top choices [but wasn’t admitted there]. I was very concerned that if she got into Smith and chose it, that it would be so hard for her once there [she was really at the bottom of their stats] that it might end up being a really bad experience. She might have risen to the challenge, but then again maybe not. I really wanted her to go somewhere she was much higher up in the stats and could really be successful without spending every second studying, as I think that would be much better for her, as the type of kid she is. I did try to talk to her about it before decisions were out, and I think she heard me, but it ended up being a moot point with Smith. We didn’t really talk about it with the other schools–I’m not sure she even knew the difference in ranking, tbh, as I certainly didn’t mention that to her. We just talked a lot about fit. Good luck to you and your D.
@CroissantMiser D17 didn’t go test optional except for Smith [and was not admitted there]. She had 1230 on the new SAT, so a decent score but nothing outstanding compared to what you see here on CC. She got 26K from Wooster and 22K [I am the one eandesmom mentioned who requested a review and got more money]. Also 26K from U of Redlands and 24K from Denison among others. Maybe try the NPC? Also, Wooster has a very comprehensive “Early Aid Estimator” that you can fill out and get a very accurate read on what to expect. Probably not available until the fall, but keep an eye out for it. It was exactly on target for what we ended up getting. Has your D taken any prep classes or anything, or done the Khan Academy stuff? Maybe she can get her score up some and it won’t be an issue. Good luck.
@kt1969 as i recall your daughter may be into dance and writing and less of a STEM kid? I’d love to know your overall impressions of Goucher as I believe it may end up being the best fit for my kid as well. She’s a dancer/writer/artist and loves Poly Sci/Psych/Philosophy/Journalism, etc. Goucher just seems like a good fit for her and we plan on visiting at least 1x this summer…funny as i’ve seen so many polarizing comments about Goucher on this thread alone so curious to get an admitted and attending family’s POV. Thanks!
@rbc1999 Our oldest did exactly what you’re afraid of. He then had major roommate issues, etc and came back home after a semester and is finishing out his associates at the local CC before transferring to a directional state. We were concerned, as you are, but never considered all the extra hoops involved with college life (even though we both went away to college). Not only do they start off slightly behind academically (or just knowing it’ll be a push) but there are numerous other factors over which they (and we) have absolutely NO control over. With S#2 we didn’t even consider reach schools. I’d rather have him be towards the top academically and have to deal with new social issues, etc than be struggling academically AND have those issues.
@CroissantMiser Um, not into dance and writing, unfortunately, but not really a STEM kid either. She listed her possible majors as Comp Sci or Psychology and honestly I think Comp Sci is pretty doubtful at this point, probably more my wishful thinking than anything. I think she’s pretty open to seeing how classes go and deciding on her major at that point. I honestly had a good feeling about Goucher from reading a lot about it before we ever went, and then had a good visit in the fall, plus an admitted students event locally about a month ago. Summer visits can be problematic as the vibe is pretty different in my experience [generally, not Goucher specifically], so if you can possibly visit during the school year that would be my advice. Please feel free to PM me in the fall and I’d be happy to let you know how it’s going, or sooner if you have any other questions.
@rbc1999 . I have similar concerns. My D did get into her dream school of GW. I am so worried in general that this hard working child where it doesnt come natural will have a hard time. She also decided to go off her anti anxiety meds. i am putting in place some safeguards to try to help, but worry she should have started somewhere else the first few years. We are making sure she knows where the counseling center is and to use it. We are also going to make sure that she utilizes all the help sessions. We are asking her to limit any extra curricular at first.
Still I have in my mind contingency plans.
@CroissantMiser I have a D16 who is currently a freshman at Goucher. She is majoring in special education and minoring in dance and so far has been really happy there.
She had a 3.1 GPA from a private college prep high school where most of her friends were academic over-achievers. She has test anxiety and does not perform well on tests especially standardized ones. Her ACT score was a 22 after several attempts. She is a strong writer and had relatively strong EC’s (Ballet 20+ hrs a week, founded, Co-Directed and choreographed a student-run dance ensemble at her school, school musicals, etc.). She applied to 9 schools and was accepted at all of them including schools where she applied test-optional.
She applied test-optional to Goucher and received a $17,500 merit scholarship. Considering that her GPA was on the lower end we were quite happy with that award. She is doing extremely well at Goucher this year.
I also have a D18 and am just starting this process all over again. She is also looking at several of the test optional schools as well. She has a higher GPA than her sister (around a 3.7) but has a processing disorder and is dyslexic. Not holding out hope for high test scores, but she is working with a tutor and just found out today that ACT has granted her extended time. College of Wooster, Beloit and Muhlenburg are just a few on her list.
@rbc1999 I’m on my way out the door so no time to give you a long answer. But yes I think you need to consider this issue. I know of top students in H.S. that found going to a top college a challenge and who struggled with feeder courses. And since she is really trying to get into a PT program, a school where she can get A’s in those required classes is probably a better fit than the “highest” ranked college. This can be true for those going pre-med as well.
Good Luck.
Short answer is yes 
Both in terms of major and in terms of school. My S started out considering engineering and like your D, he has to work for the grades he has. Granted, he does not work as hard as he could or should and much of that is due to his EC’s and his prioritization of having a well rounded balanced life than one that is just school focused. It will be interesting to see how he chooses to balance that in college, knowing that he has a gpa requirement for his scholarship. On a side note, for me, that was a plus. He knows if he loses it, the school isn’t an option and something that holds his feet the fire is a good thing.
That said, he has migrated away from majors that included weeder classes. In your situation I’d share the concern and a less pressure cooker environment might be a far better fit. I’d also consider looking at some of those weeder classes as a summer school CC option, where you take just one at a time so it can be focused on without hurting any of the other classes in that quarter or semester. We know many kids that do this, or have mentioned doing it and it usually seems to relate to math or chem.
There was one school he visited where the kids were definitely “more” focused academically (and sports) and he felt he’d be working hard there to keep up. Doable yes but he felt it was just maybe more competitive than he wanted without the social/location benefits to offset it. He really loved their program though.
I’d really look at the curriculum for both, what the support services are etc and have a frank conversation. IF that happens. I’m not sure if it of benefit to have it now if she never comes off the WL. I’m not sure how much movement they have on the WL as to how good those chances might be.
@CroissantMiser we might have been part of the polarizing Goucher comments. However I really really think it was reflective of the department we were looking at, not the entire school. I would NOT recommend it for Environmental Science or Studies but really can’t speak to more than that. I also think we toured on a horrible weather day which didn’t help. All of our AO interactions were amazing and I know several that have spoken highly of it for dance and it is well respected in the area.
And actually yes, I can speak to whether folks did test optional. I only put folks on the results thread if they provide stats and stats include test scores. I don’t have anyone without a test score of some sort. So, if we have test optional folks here, they didn’t want their results on the big doc. I am pretty sure there is one kid on the main 2017 thread that went test optional but they had a pretty high GPA if memory serves. Really sorry I can’t be more helpful.
@rbc1999 My D18 is considering Occupational Therapy for grad school and I have looked at similar strategies to what has been suggested here. Most programs consider prereq GPA and overall GPA so good to consider how to maximize both. D18 is considering majoring in business as she is interested and it is GPA friendly, and will likely pick up her prereqs for the MSOT program thru a combination of DE in senior yr high school, community college over summers, and electives. Also considering a direct entry program but with AP/DE doing undergrad in 3 yrs offers a comparable timeline. Anyways, my advice would be to consider taking difficult prereqs at CC and selecting a major that meets your goals.
@CroissantMiser, what kind of dance does your daughter like? ( I’m mostly a lurker here as my DD will graduate in 21) I think Goucher’s dance program is fairly ballet-centric (more than the usual LAC dance program ) though I’ imagine there would be some contemporary dance too. One of the teachers (if he is still there,) Tim Fox, lead a ballet intensive my daughter took. He was very good, and nice, as well, and had danced alongside Barishniikov and his ilk in his day.
@rbc1999, It’s probably too late for applying to undergrad but, for PT graduate school, your daughter might consider looking into Slippery Rock University in NW PA if her grades in college continues to be solid but less-than-perfect. as I know PT is getting very competitive. The school is only on my radar because an old friend’s daughter is doing the pre-PT /to grad program there, and my own daughter sometimes thinks about PT as a future profession. I also met a few enthusiastic grads from Slippery Rock’s PT program who did an evaluation of ballet students and they had really good things to say about their school and profession. I think Slippery Rock is less selective than some other schools, but (I hope) still has a good program. Might be worth looking into for graduate school or if (heaven forbid) she decides later she wants to transfer. Duquesne University in Pittsburgh might also be a good one to look into in the future
Good luck! It’s a hard decision… I think I might also be a little worried about the combination of a challenging school combined with very large class sizes…but you also don’t want to send a message that she’s not capable. either. Some students do grow into their capabilities, I think. Much will depend on your daughter’s personality, too…will she be proactive to seek out help if she needs it, does she have good focusing and time-management skills, etc. I would think the swimming would have given her a lot of discipline and stick-to-it-ness.
Whew! I’m glad I’m not alone with my concerns. Sometimes it feels like all the kids I know are from Lake Wobegone: “Welcome to Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.”
I’ve thought about the CC route for a class this summer but the kinesiology admissions person at Iowa State said some DPT programs don’t accept AP credits or CC transferred credits.
Thanks to all for the congratulations! Everyone seems pretty thrilled for him and were rooting for/hoping for UVM.
For those who recall our early email glitches we have had challenges already. Locked out of his portal. I think it’s fixed but the kid had to call the identity police from school and I’m not sure he’s tried to log in since.
Luckily the lovely people at orientation signed him up for the one June session that works despite the glitch and I was able to book his flights. Which had gone up $200 since I looked a few weeks ago!
Which meant I also booked august move in flights to get the cheaper price, and hotel. Haven’t booked my return as I’m not sure if H will come as well (a day later) and we stay for the weekend.
Also called and added to the swag order. He’d not done thank you notes/gifts for the teachers that wrote letters and who did extra things for music and theater. They are all getting a UVM mug and some maple syrup lol. We figure since it’s an unusual school choice for our HS and we know they all drink coffee, it was something different. Also ordered thank you notes, grad announcements and some UVM balloons for the party lol. Oh and a pint glass for him to give H on Father’s Day.
Which means I’m now broke for the month! But relieved. He still needs to change his major from E Science to E studies, indicate his living community preference, and a pre arrival night for orientation and take a math placement test but I “think” that’s it! I need to have his WWU trancript sent to see he will get any credit for that.