I’m looking forward to the impressions of Goucher as well. We visited in March. Drove a long way to get there, were really looking forward to it, sounded like a good fit. We came away very disappointed by our experience. D immediately deleted it from her list. This may have just been a perfect storm of unfortunate things, like the most bizarre tour /guide ever, an admissions officer who was totally unfamiliar with the 3+2 program my kid asked about ( and it is even highlighted in bold type on the poster in the admissions office!) and the fact that the freshman dining hall looked exactly like her childhood summer camp’s. They do have a very impressive performing arts space and we were able to see some of a choral rehearsal there, unintentionally ( because we were lost looking for the admissions office due to the poorly placed signage). It sure did not seem to us to be much like the FIske guide description, or even like the school’s website. We really wanted to like it! I hope others have a better experience.
@cameo43 we’ve found almost all guides are unfamiliar with the 3+2. they’ve heard of it and that’s about it. As a general rule the success rate of the programs is really low (kids don’t want to leave their school or friends) but still, you’d expect an adcomm to be able to speak to it in general if nothing else. We decided a while ago that it wasn’t a good idea for my S but it’s come up on a few tours. I think every LAC wants to advertise that they have it to be competitive but I don’t think there is much weight in the programs…at any LAC to be honest.
It is scary how a visit like that can really wipe a school out that sounds perfect on paper, we’ve definitely had that happen as well but it is why visits are so important and in our case, why S has to apply broadly as we really have no clue how well these will “fit” at this exact moment in time so have to go with what we see on paper now and then back that up later if it seems worth it. What other schools is your D looking at and have they been better fits on tours? Curious by comparison (and now I want to see a picture of the dining hall lol).
@snoozn I think that’s part of why I don’t like BTS. The sessions are often derailed by “that” parent and I learn absolutely nothing. I generally find other ways to meet the teachers if needed. It is also really awful if “that” parent happens to be someone you know. I had that happen once, where a friend really was “that” parent and then I heard other friends mocking her and ugh…I’d rather just not know either side of that kind of thing!
You are right that a great deal of it is coming from H. We had the same battle over D going away and I prevailed. However, the deciding factor was a $20K scholarship she was awarded. That allowed us to cover room and board her first year; otherwise, she would have had to have gone local because we could not have afforded it otherwise. When it came down to our middle son, I had received a small inheritance that helped pay for him to go away and H accepted that he was going to go to the same school where our D was finishing up. Oldest boy and next to youngest are more homebodies and didn’t even ask to go away.
S17 is kind of torn. He is interested in studying theater tech and that is a major than can be done very well within 2 hours of where we live, given that it takes 40 minutes to get to Penn Station and about that long to drive to Purchase on a good day. Other schools that are within the circle and which offer his major include Wagner, Montclair, Pace, LIU-Post, Adelphi, Hofstra and Marymount Manhattan. Even Temple is in range as it’s about 90 minutes away by Amtrak. S17 is also very much a homebody as well, though I don’t know how that will work out when he realizes that most of his friends are going away. One thing that H is dangling in front of him is a job/internship with a friend who owns a film company, plus he has an opportunity to work with a friend of D’s who has a stage lighting/construction business; those are not options that will be as available if he’s too far away from him.
I have offered to take S17 to see schools further away, like Muehlenberg or SUNY Fredonia, but he isn’t showing much interest. I have offered to let him dorm at one of the private colleges the first year and have him move back home after that if he doesn’t get a job as an RA. Of course, if he gets enough scholarship money, he can stay on campus regardless.
@eandesmom: D is looking mostly at techy schools, and some LACs with solid STEM offerings. She’s a CS/math/bio kid who is also a musician. She’s not applying to any school she hasn’t seen. We have done 18 visits and have a few more to go. Some of the tours have been very good and felt like good fits, some were ‘meh’ and a few fell off the list right away ( like RIT). We went up to Burlington to see Champlain College, which wasn’t even on our radar until her school’s college counselor suggested it for CS. We liked it a lot – and then we saw UVM ( as an afterthought), and it blew our socks off. The whole visit was great but it was the wonderful UVM tour guide who really " sold " the school to us. She did a fantastic job. I think some schools could do a much better job of training their guides. The RIT guide had just finished freshman year, couldn’t answer 90 percent of the questions asked by kids or parents, and wasn’t even sure what all the facilities were that she was guiding us through. The student at Goucher who led our tour was very lively, but one of the first things she did was launch into a litany of all the things that Goucher does NOT have! It was a riot. She told us how excited she was to have worked on some research with her favorite science prof, and that she was grateful, because “students here hardly ever have the opportunity to work on research projects with faculty.” That turned my kid off right away. Another parent asked about athletics, and she said “Well, if you have a friend on a sports team then you might go to a game to support them, but really, there’s basically no school spirit here, and not many people like to go to the games.” AT the library, she told us “SO, this is really the only decent place you can study on campus. So you should walk around for a few minutes and think about whether you’d be comfortable in here for hours every day. If this isn’t your kind of library, you shouldn’t come to school here.” Then she showed us that freshman dining hall, which I can only describe as a “pavilion” type structure… She mentioned that the school segregates freshman as much as possible because " well, you know… They are freshmen!" It was all downhill from there… The parents on the tour were all making funny eyes at one another and shaking their heads… I’m sure the admissions office has no idea what kind of anti- ambassador this girl was! She did, however, speak glowingly of her recent semester study abroad experience! BTW, though you don’t see it from the campus, we were surprised to find that Goucher’s entrance is across the street from one of the biggest malls I have ever seen. No one will need to travel far to find dorm supplies!
@cameo43 oh my, anti ambassador is right! I had heard that it was across the street from a large mall and a Trader Joe’s, a co worker went there for her masters. My S would have been happy about the sports comment lol.
A guide really can make a huge difference. We had a similar issue at CSU when our engineering major tour guice couldn’t answer much about my S’s engineering discipline interest, told us he had to give up band his sophomore year as it was too much with school (and he’d been a drum major in HS) which was a huge flag to my S who hopes to keep playing and then extolled the virtues of how sunny it was and spread out. Neither of which my S wants. It’s a lovely school, just wasn’t the right fit for my S.
UVM is on our list as well.
@curiositycat333 - I never go to BTS, but I went this year because the counselingredients office held a session on post-secondary planning for the senior parents. Everything she said was something we already knew thanks to College Confidential! But, I got to put a face with a name, and she spent a ton of time with a handful of us with kiddos who were ahead of the game. So, I consider that time well spent.
@coloradomom2015 The parents meeting about college session is the following week at 7AM. I am so NOT a morning person. And they wonder why more parents don’t attend. I think they figure it’s before parents go to work, but in reality is a horrible time for anyone who has younger kids.
@curiositycat333 I am not a morning person either - but looking at my calendar 7am would definitely be better. Between College rep visits, sports, concession stand duty, Parent/Teacher conferences, PTO meetings etc…my evenings are jam packed through Thanksgiving.
But I don’t have any little ones at home.
@curiositycat333 - 7am? That’s cruel and unusual punishment.
This weekend, we accomplished getting senior photos taken, ordered senior photos, and…we got all of our Common App and non-Common App applications completed and submitted. And now, we wait for the guidance counselor to get off her duff and submit transcripts. Tell me this isn’t messed up - the school wants us to submit requests for transcripts and letters of recommendation via Naviance, but then, they also want a paper request submitted for each one, too. Why???
I (or my H, we take turns) have to drop my kids off at 7am for jazz band so that would work well for me, but not if I had younger ones.
Not that I LIKE being up at 7am mind you. But if I have coffee and don’t speak it works out ok. Band meeting is tonight, I don’t even KNOW when BTS is. LOL! I should but clearly it isn’t this week and that’s as on top of my schedule as I can be as I head into my busy work travel season.
@coloradomom2015 that’s impressive that all the apps are in! I have a feeling our school doesn’t actually send the transcripts until they see the app is in. I don’t know that for sure but I can see that not a transcript has left the building yet. We have to link the LOR’s in naviance but only after the student has asked the teacher and then given them the dates (and resume). But, based on what has been shared on the main 2017 board it sounds like they can’t actually be “sent” until the apps are in and so I wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing is true for transcripts. Which helps make the case for things being in early.
@curiositycat333 , HSU does have a stoner reputation, but UCSC is worse ! The one thing that UCSC does have that HSU lacks, is a School of Engineering. On the side of HSU, if your son wanted to live off of campus, it is really affordable ! Santa Cruz and the towns around the campus are VERY EXPENSIVE !! Expect to pay 4K+ per month for a 2 bedroom apartment IF and I mean IF, you can find it ! Trying to find affordable housing is near impossible. In fact, there is a housing shortage here( Silicon Valley). Also, UCSC has become difficult to get into, even for residents.
@svcamom in @curiositycat333’s defense I shared many of the same concerns. In part it came from my H’s “baggage” (SDSU, SJSU, CSLB) but more importantly from looking at the grad rates and loan default rates. HSU does have engineering, just not all fields I don’t think. Outside of engineering, and specific engineering and environmental studies I really worried that if my S changed his mind on major, the programs just wouldn’t make up for some of the other factors.
The difficulty in getting there was another concern and would be expensive. That said, I know 2 kids there now, one freshman and one sophomore. The sophomores father is an alumn, who I suspect lives up to the reputation still, and falls into the “crunchy” hippy descriptor lol. Great guy and family. I won’t be surprised if their current senior, classmate to mine, ends up there. They all seem very very happy with it and the price is definitely right with the WUE. My S dropped it on his own, purely based on location (wanting to go east(. And I am glad, even though they do offer his area of interest, it doesn’t have the focus area he wants (2 classes but totally water resource focused) and so while the setting would be lovely, I think he has a better safety at WWU financially, academically (program) and overall environment.
@svcamom I know about UCSC and housing costs. It’s where I went. I know all about Silicon Valley, many of my relatives live there and I go there often. It’s also very par for the course where I live in S. Calif. These costs will not take me by surprise very much.
That said Humboldt will make a fine safety for DS and the least expensive school on his list which is a good thing. It’s just very remote & I do know as I drive to North Coast all the time. (It’s more expensive to fly than it was to send DD to the east coast.) He should be able to get in very easily and he’s not interested in any other Cal State except Cal Poly. We could debate about the ‘stoner’ reputation but not get anywhere. Some portion of university students everywhere are either party and/or stoner kids to some extent. It perplexes me when people dismiss UCSB as a party school, when all the kids I knew who graduated from there last year and headed off to graduate school at very prestigious universities.
@endesmom HSU doesn’t have an Engineering dept. It does have Computer Science, but CS isn’t always part of Engineering it really varies school to school. Many schools without Engineering Depts. have computer science depts. UofO has C.S. but no engineering, Lewis & Clark has CS as well but not engineering either, and some schools are like UCI where Computer Science is it’s own department.
Looks like my baby is dropping Goucher. She’s also desperate to go out of state, so she’s making noises about dropping the affordable in-state option as well. I am making her keep that on the list. At least I know we can afford it.
The difference in tour guide quality really is amazing. In some cases I think schools under-estimate the importance of the guide, and at others it’s just the luck of the draw. Our best tour guide yet was at CSU, D’s main safety. I was very thankful to him for putting the school in its best light.
D also had Humboldt on her list for the environmental energy engineering. It seemed like a great fit, but she decided (wisely, I think) to stick with schools where there is more engineering fall-back. I don’t worry about stoner school reps. My oldest D went to an alternative charter HS that was known as the “slacker/stoner” school or the “artsy/quirky” school depending on who you asked. The slackers and stoners tended to not do well in class and often didn’t even graduate. D and her friends took advantage of the educational opportunities and are all doing well now.
I think it’s the same for college. If you got your accredited degree with good grades, it shows you were doing the work. Having said that, it’s still important to do outcome research on all schools!
D’s essay is really close to being done. I read the latest version and thought it was excellent. My only real input was about grammar/typos and to point out some awkward sounding sentences. Now she’s waiting for H and oldest D to read it and figure out where to cut 20 words!
@coloradomom2015, congrats on the submits! My D has a few she could officially submit to now, as they don’t require the essay. But only one of her LoR’s has been submitted to Naviance, so nothing would be happening anyway.
@curiositycat333 Engineering lite lol
Or at least very limited
http://www2.humboldt.edu/engineering/
@“Queen’s Mom” why did she pull Goucher off? Just curious.
@eandesmom, she spoke to her friend whose cousin goes there and the friend said the cousin said that it does not have a great writing program. I think there must be a more logical reason, but I really have no idea. Then she said the only reason she ever considered it was the study abroad program.
I agree that the tour guide can make or break a school (rightly or wrongly). At the very beginning of our process we went to visit a school that I knew would be a safety–nearby, focus on what D17 had indicated was a major interest at the time (business). It was just a get-our-feet-wet visit, targeted specifically to juniors–but very low stakes. Our tour guide was just so ditzy (told an ‘amusing’ story about how she gets astronomy and and astrology confused “I’m not very science-y”) that it totally turned both D and I off. We got a survey in the mail the following week about the info session/tour, and while I didn’t like the idea of throwing that poor girl under the bus, I felt the school needed to know that what they were putting out there as the face of the school wasn’t doing the school any favors.
D is actually starting to get engaged in this process! Has provided brag sheet to recommenders, has made an appointment with her GC, and has started reaching out to schools for interviews–I think the weekly meeting with specific tasks to take care of in the next 7 days is what she needed. My guess is that she’s been overwhelmed by it all–eating the elephant one bite at a time is the approach that works for her.
My new point of worry is that D’s top choice school is expensive but not undoable. It will mean that we won’t be able to help with grad school, or post-graduation “launch” and it will mean that she’d have to take out the student loans she’d qualify for. Of course, she’d have to get in first (this is a bit of a reach for her, but not a Hail Mary application). And that’s where the real issue lies: Does she go ED with an acceptance rate of 87% or does she go RD with an acceptance rate of <30%? I really don’t want her to start out adult life with loan debt (even if it’s relatively small). I’d like her to have a little cushion from us to get started. I am absolutely not going to take out loans (I will be less than 5 years away from retirement by the time D19 is done with school and will need to double down on retirement savings to get me to my goal).
Funny (or not): the new USNWR rankings show top choice, in-state flagship (at just a little more than half the price), and “mom’s choice” in a tie among National Universities. Even if you don’t take the rankings seriously (and I don’t), it’s hard to justify paying almost twice the amount for what appears to be (on paper) the same quality of education. Maybe I should use the 65/35 female/male ratio at the top choice as my leverage…
I know it’s not on the radar for many, but we visited IUPUI yesterday and I posted my impressions over here:
Bottom line: it’s looking like it could be a good fit.