@makemesmart I probably didn’t go back far enough to find the context of visiting schools your student doesn’t want to attend, but here is some btdt advice for why it can be a helpful strategy.
For our high-stat, competitive kids, finding a dept that fit and offered high merit was our goal. Our kids that fit that profile graduated from high school with unusual levels of achievement and needed a dept flexible enough to work with them at their level even though they were entering as freshman.
Meeting with depts and interviewing them (yes, we took the approach that our kids were interviewing the dept vs the other way around), emailing deans asking questions, etc were new skills for them. Starting off with schools that were way down near the bottom of their list made those schools their practice runs so that by the time they got to the schools that they were seriously considering, they were much more poised and confident in themselves and had learned what questions to ask in order to get the more exact info that they wanted.
(We also learned that people often spread misinformation as fact. For example we were emphatically told that one top school would not accept DE credits for in-major math/science courses. Ds talked with the dean for well over an hr. During that conversation, the dean requested the syllabi from the various classes, got him the contact information for another dept, and also shared with ds that he already had more direct research experience than their UGs and that their UGs who got research worked for grad students, not profs. A few days later that dean got back in touch with ds and told him that they would directly transfer in his courses as matching their in-major classes. But, ds decided against that school bc of the frankness of the conversation over research bc research was one of his primary filters. I was extremely glad that that interaction was somewhere around his 6 dept interview rather than his 1st.)
I was also glad for them that they had gone through the above process bc then when it came to competitive scholarship interview weekends, they weren’t ruffled at all bc they had been doing something similar to the schools and depts themselves.
D17 was a finalist for Duke Robertson. At that stage, it is really not your stat that matters. By the time they fly you to do final interviews in early April, all of them have HPMS/ivy admissions, and sometime multiple. The interviews were done by outside consultants, mostly old white men. The last round (6 interviews)was done as Speed dating, 10 minutes to go through each table, 8 minutes to read something and 2 minutes to talk about what you read. D was a PF debater, but was not as articulate as some of them. She met some great kids that way. One guy who got into Princeton political science didn’t get it, one AA girl who wanted to study applied math was alternate. She knew some kids who got it. Just as I said in another thread, in this case, it is not you, it is them. The selection committee wants to put together a diverse group of kids (a box of chocolate), and sometimes you are just not unique or representing enough.
DS has 760 reading, 620 writing, and 680 math, for 1370 on Dec SAT. My girlfriend son is taking ACT today, and I am starting to think maybe DS should take ACT too. He took one comparison test with Princeton review a year ago and the SAT/ACT result was comparable though. Do any of you know if this kind of break out scores makes ACT more favorable to him? Really he just needs to study, but my DS is all about minimum effort!
@WasIDremin UNC has the Morehead or Robertson (I think you can only apply for one), the Carolina scholarships and the EXCEL opportunities. Getting in and getting one are slim from OOS, but it can’t hurt to try. I made the mistake of taking my child to Georgetown and then found out they had no merit, and of course she loved it. But we’ve since talked about costs, and now I think her #1 is UNC (we are in state). So I encourage everyone to have those conversations about money. She’s still applying to more expensive schools that do have merit, so who knows what could happen.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek thank you for your post. How did you let the schools/departments know that your kids were high stats? It seems a little like Pretty Woman where the stores thought she couldn’t afford their clothing. The top schools give me the impression that they think the majority of people visiting are just looky-loos.
@WasIDremin
I misunderstood your earlier post and thank you for clarifying it.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek
Wow, your DS is way ahead in academics than my DS. We have yet to meet with department prof/deans, as he is just a “run-of-the-mill” good stat student. We are planning to sit in some classes to get better feel this time around. Thank you for the detailed description and I am sure your DS found a great school that meets his academic and social needs.
@lkg4answers My kids would research the school and the dept and then directly email the dean or UG advisor or both (depended on the school and how the depts were structured) and ask specific questions that they could not find answers to online. They never interacted with admissions (right or wrong, I have no idea, but they took the direct approach.)
For example, both asked about the ability to take grad level courses as UGs. Some schools allow it; some don’t. Ds might have started with something like, "I am a high school sr who is interested in learning more about your dept. My educational background is atypical from most entering freshman. I have currently completed _______ and I would like to understand how you would see me fitting into your dept and what sort of course sequence you might recommend.
“One of my key criteria in selecting my UG school is access to research. My research background is _____, and my goals are ______.”
Dd’s letters were of a different variety bc her questions were about language goals bc she entered at unusually high levels of language proficiency.
Without fail, they always received replies and their letters were sometimes forwarded to individual professors for additional feedback. They were invited to meet with the dept when on campus and they would request to sit in on classes, etc. Dept fit was huge. (Ds had one nightmare experience where the UG advisor told him he needed to slow down and actually learn something instead of progressing through classes the way he had. He went on to tell him that high stat kids were a dime a dozen and they entered his classroom and it was obvious they didn’t know a thing about learning. That is the mild version. It was truly horrific. Oh, and on top of that, ds asked where the grads of their dept had gone afterward and the dean and UG advisor looked at each other for an answer. They didn’t have a clue. Some depts you want to run from!!! Before that visit, that school had been near the top of his list. Yikes!!)
@makemesmart That ds is now a grad student. His UG experience was great.
I’ve seen one particular poster that has had “TIME OUT” for the past few days but is still able to post. I hadn’t seen that before. I wonder if they received some sort of warning but are still allowed to post.
AP Chem (double block), AP Lit, AP Spanish, AP Calc AB, Honors Accounting 2, Honors Marketing, Honors Teacher Assistant. She meets with her counselor this week. Hard to believe we are here already.
@NYC2018nyc LORs for college applications, at our HS, should be requested this spring before the end of the school year. That gets kids on the list, and teachers can choose to do them over the summer if they wish. Some teachers ask for a ‘brag sheet’ (like, a few things they can talk about). Then, in the fall of senior year the student touches base again about timing of the letter. We have Naviance, so letters are uploaded through there to be loaded to the CA.
Check with your school now about the correct procedures and timelines. Our school is very big and has a strict policy of not contacting teachers until senior year. Also, a brag sheet must first be on file in Naviance for each recommender.
I believe that ‘tis the season for College Marketing Inundation. DS got a weird one this past week from an attorney’s office on behalf of the college. I almost didn’t open it as DS usually just wants me to throw them away. Curiosity, however, got the best of me. It was an award letter for $29K guaranteed for 4 years total $116K plus $1K for visiting. Wow. That’s super generous and he hasn’t even shown any interest. This is a school that we know about. My eldest visited and applied but didn’t attend. My former CIO’s daughter is a graduate as is her husband. Maybe a portend of good things to come. Maybe just junk mail. Anyway DS threw it in the trash.
We are in a bit of a lull right now with S20. No major activities at school. trying to survive winter’s cold.
I’m in a quandary and wondered if any of you have been through this. I’ve been “getting” on him about ACT practice for the state-mandated test; especially for science scores. (Do you guys have any recommendations ? Practice? studying? tutoring?) My youngest thinks I harp a lot on this - hmm. Yet, he’s not really super motivated to this on his own; and it’s worth merit money if it’s higher. Don’t know if i should leave him alone, or keep on him! thoughts?
@SoccaMomma We got that same letter from the attorney about the college! I can’t even remember what school it was! She throws all college mail in the trash anyway. I was initially worried she got a speeding ticket and hadn’t told me, lol. Thank goodness that wasn’t it.
@SoccaMomma@chb088 Pretty sure it was Roanoke. S20 got it, too, and then I also had one addressed to me a week later with the same content. Interesting marketing approach . . .
@bgbg4us Your questions reminded me of a mom I encountered not too long ago. Our kids run in similar circles, not sure which, and I don’t even recall her name. But I knew she had a high school senior so I asked how college apps were going and commented that she must be in the thick of it. She responded that she’s been going to parent college night and other events and researching possible colleges but that her child seemed unenthused, uninterested, or some such and that she told him that if he’s not mature enough for this (the application process) then he’s probably not mature enough for 4-year university so he’ll be going to the local cc if he doesn’t get on board. Whoa, I was taken aback. Not that there’s anything wrong with going to a community college it’s just that it was a different way of thinking about it. It may’ve been an idle threat meant to motivate her DC to follow the path she wanted him to go. I’m not sure. I’m totally not saying this is the case for your child either. Just some food for thought.
Sorry that I have no advice as we’ve experienced similar scenarios with talking not necessarily helping. Some self-motivation (even a spark) just has to be there imo. Happy to hear what others have done tho.
His UG experience was great.