PA also has a ‘sanctuary’ program where kids can walk one another in for help without getting expelled.
I would also echo @Calliemomofgirls: read the actual report. That short list of stats put forth above isn’t correct and frankly the comment should be deleted.
BTW I said this when the prior SOTA was posted and commented on: I think anyone making a decision to not send their child to PA because of this, somehow assuming that it’s a gross outlier in this stuff, is delusional. Not saying that it’s all the same everywhere. But it’s far more likely to be more alike than not.
Not interesting in arguing this (again) so will bow out of this thread now.
With respect to drugs, alcohol, and sex - PA is NOT an outlier among BSs or other elite private schools. It’s called being a teenager. Also, the stats posted above are inaccurate/somewhat out of context.
I can’t comment on what I expect of teenagers, since my eldest is a young teen and I was a teen a LONG time ago. But, I agree that the stats probably aren’t dissimilar to other HS all across the country.
However, I was disappointed to see that roughly 40% of the student body was very unhappy, unhappy, or neutral about being at their school. Rising to 46% of juniors.
And then 30% of seniors would NOT want their kids to attend their school.
Is that similar to what you’d expect of teenagers across the country?
In our experience, partying at our local schools is significantly more prevalent than partying at BS. Part of it is just access - my kids have gone to schools with very few (if any) day students. In addition, one went to a “no chance” school where it was pretty easy to decline any temptations.
In terms of happiness regarding being at the school - it’s important to note the impact of Covid. I would look at previous surveys to see trends rather than putting too much weight on this year’s.
Not to be the statistics police here, but the numbers I see on the report do not support these figures. I’m seeing 23% for the seniors who wouldn’t want to send their kids to Andover. (Not ideal number, but not crazy negative given how exhausting senior year might be.). And the “happiness” number – 87% students report being happy at Andover, which seems encouraging to me.
Ok I’m done stat-checking.
My point is: read the report for yourself and read carefully. Sometimes they take the subset of kids with one answer and then divide it out, with color coding by population, and honestly, it’s a little confusing. So if there is something that is freaking you out, step back and check to make sure you are reading it correctly. (Personally, I think they tried to cross-pollinate too many factors in some of those charts. And I love a good chart on a powerpoint slide!)
The big takeaway for parents doing their homework:
Teen world is darker and harder than we all thought and kids are engaging in behavior we older folks find surprising.
It is happening in a lot of places, and most high schools, private or public.
It is not likely “other kids.” It is likely also our own kids, lest we be tempted to say: Oh well that’s OK because my kid knows better thanks to my parenting and clear communication about our values surrounding these issues.
And, our own kids might well behave the exact same way here at home under our own roof.
BUT.
There is a difference in how many eyes are on our kids and how scaffolded the kids are. While I do think that teens are teens everywhere, I also think that there are varying levels of supervision/scaffolding at different schools. Whether scaffolding will deter behaviors in kids isn’t for me to say because different kids respond to freedom differently. I have one kid who could have all the freedom in the world and end up with the same behaviors as if she were on lockdown. And I have another kid who would likely take every bit of freedom you give her, and then some. The takeaway here would be: don’t be fooled into thinking your great parenting is the foolproof solution to the problem of kids acting out in these “partying” ways.
I pulled the figures off the combined Andover/Exeter/Deerfield/NHM survey and not the original Andover survey. Perhaps that’s where the discrepancy lies. I eyeballed the figures originally when I posted above, but just went back and used a calculator to check my math.
In answering the question
“Generally speaking how happy to you consider yourself at your school?”
40.86% of Andover students said very unhappy, unhappy or neutral.
And 48.72% of Andover junior students said the same.
The figures were marginally lower using the combined answers of Andover, Exeter, DA and NHM students.
And in answering the question “Would you want your children to attend your school?” 29.51% of Andover, Exeter, DA and NHM seniors said “no”.
@MacJackAttack
Thanks for the headsup. Different report then. Got it. Explains discrepancy. Also, interesting data to support that Andover is probably not all that different from other schools.
I think it is worth noting that Junior year is very very very stressful at top schools. Kids are having their future dreams shattered by cc offices or they are super stressed about getting ready to apply the next year.
I would think twice about sending my kids to the schools they go/went to. Academically it’s really intense. I am still not convinced that level of intensity is necessary or healthy. I suspect that is reflected in the surveys.
My kid interviewed with Andover (along with two other schools) when we were looking at privates high schools. The interviewer was an alum in his mid-to-late 40s, successful corporate type, and a former sporty jock at school.
At the time, my kid was 12, and the interviewer was (hilariously, in my opinion - I’m writing this while laughing) blunt about the sex, drugs and rock and roll nature of private school. Like Van Halen’s Hot for Teacher music video. Clearly, he had a blast during his time at Andover. There was no dwelling on the subject, but also no sugar-coating for my child.
For better or worse, we ended up staying with our current schooling option (due to a mix of academic and financial considerations). Turns out this year was hugely impacted by health affairs. So, financially, we dodged a bullet.
You need to really trust that your kid can make it out unscathed. Frankly, I am equally concerned about an academic environment where cheating happens (nope - not acceptable for our kid) and where academic sabotage can happen (my kid would be ill-equipped to deal with this). Also, the happiness ratio needs to be high. The survey was illuminating, to say the least.
Well not speaking specifically about PA, but in general, I think many kids who attend BS aren’t a perfect fit. And there are often parents, coaches and others pushing them down a road they might not otherwise have gone. By Junior year, it’s hard.
There seem to be kids everywhere who are unhappy with school in general. Who could blame the. Too much stress, not doing well, not interested and a whole list of other things on top of Covid. Who could be having fun?
I do notice a bit of reticence on the part of some parents when something involves their school. Yes, other schools might experience the same things to a bigger or lesser degree. But not all schools are the same.
A couple of folks hit the nail on the head, BS is difficult academically and not for every kid. What happens when things go awry? I think most parents convince the kids to stay the course. Many kids end up doing fine. But I also think that the high school years are tough. Anywhere.
Agree with @Happytimes2001 – not all schools are the same. At some, the base expectation of workload/achievement is much higher and for some students, that leaves little room for kids to be their best selves. They can be very hard-working students and develop those academic skills but they may feel pressure and have less time to develop outside the classroom. They may feel a sense of accomplishment from academics yet also feel unsatisfied with their lives. (To all the adults out there who have experienced a work life imbalance, this is probably relatable! You definitely want to do a stellar job at work but you don’t want that to be your whole life.)
There are schools that are excellent and that give students more choice around their rigor.
Hun, which is quite literally down the road from Lawrenceville, was marketing itself when DS applied as a place where, unlike some schools(uh hmm), students were happy. And for some families (including a friend who had a D at L’ville), this was a successful pitch. This isn’t to say that everyone at L’ville is unhappy – that’s hardly the case. But there are probably a lot of students who don’t fully think through or understand what they are signing up for. Many students also find ways to be happy in spite of their schools! Friendships can do wonders.
It’s hard as a parent to know exactly what’s going on in your kid’s life, especially when they are away at school. I think there can also be lots of other social pressures. All of this is almost impossible to glean from a few hours on campus before you sign the contract. And even after your kid is there, it’s hard to fully understand. My kid always wanted me to think everything was okay. Other parents get the “dump” phone calls when the kid unloads. We don’t have the full story. Ever!
So on partying, no, we don’t really know. Ime, kids get into mischief-- probably not at school but when they leave campus (often for the weekend to someone’s unoccupied home.)
@gardenstategal THIS is exactly what we have drilled into our kids for years. We want them to ask themselves constantly “at what cost?”. DS has sometimes taken it to extremes (as noted by emails from his advisor)…but overall, he’s done rather well with the work-life balance. DD is being VERY diligent applying this to the schools she’s applied to and when one of her schools that had been at the very tip top of her list informed her of how many hours she should expect to spend per night with academic work, she looked at me and said “No, thank you…I have more to do in my high school years than just homework!”.
Although I want my kids to get the best education possible, I want them to experience so much more than that from BS. It is not the sole reason my children decided to choose BS - they are choosing it for the diverse, close-knit friendships, the opportunities and ECs not offered at home, the ability to be independent and become more self-sufficient and the X-factor that living life away from home in a place that encourages one to be their best self. And quite frankly, as recently as last night, DD indicated she really wanted to be surrounded by kids who wanted the same – not kids who only cared about which percentile they were in for school.
It is my hope we chose carefully and all of her schools offer so much of this balance, that the ‘life’ portion of it is not consumed with “partying”, but more wholesome fun (I said my hope, not my absolute expectation).
@buuzn03 , can’t love your post enough! One of the things I loved about George was that they asked the kids to think about this. What do I want? What will I give up for that? How am I feeling about my choices and how should that inform my future choices? There’s a part of this, as a parent, that’s a bit terrifying because there are times when your kid will decide differently than you would. (Like the friend who told her then 8 year old “if you do x, I will take away all your gaming privileges for a week” to which he responded after about a moment of thought “Yeah, it’s worth that.” )
But this is an important life practice. It’s often hard to calibrate it completely right, but it’s virtually impossible if you don’t have some intention around it. Good for you for teaching your kids this!
I really appreciate this conversation.
We’re pivoting a little bit from “partying” to deeper issues of Happiness and contentment, and I have capital-F-Feelings about that whole topic. But lest I tempt skieurope or publisher to swoop in to remind me to stay on topic, I’ll just say this: 4 years of life is too much to write off one’s deep sense of Happiness. High school, while certainly dotted with hard moments, shouldn’t be like going to the gym where you only enjoy it after it’s over. (And if the aforementioned “partying” is actually “self-medicating” this discontent, then that is even more problematic.)
ski, you show up without even a tag! You’re like a mom with eyeballs on the back of her head. :). (And as one of your toddlers, I like how scaffolded you make us all feel). :).
Our LPS does this cool exercise where they make the freshmen allocate the hours they expect to spend in a week on various activities- sleep, homework, socializing, class time, eating, exercising, family time, jobs, social media, their ECs, partying, everything. Total up the hours. For these kids it is inevitably more than the hours in a week.
It is a great entry way into an important conversation about work life balance, priorities, mental health, etc.
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