<p>Actually, MIT does have strong departments and majors in several of the humanities and social studies areas. A typical state flagship likely has more different humanities and social studies departments and majors, but not necessarily stronger ones than those which MIT does have.</p>
<p>Note that MIT also has relatively rigorous breadth requirements in both the sciences (math through multivariable calculus, physics, chemistry, biology – no “for poets/jocks” courses offered) and humanities and social studies (eight courses including a coherent concentration as well as courses in each of humanities, arts, and social studies). The humanities and social studies requirements appear to be somewhat more rigorous than what engineering and science majors at most other schools have to take; the science requirements are much more rigorous than what humanities and social studies majors at most other schools have to take.</p>
<p>Just FYI…I never said each family’s decisions were good ones (in my opinion). I said that they were right for the families who made them. Far be it from me to impose MY opinions about college prices, selectivity of programs, etc…on others. To each his own.</p>
<p>Unless things have changed, MIT students can take courses at Harvard and vice versa. This wouldn’t work for an entire major, but it does provide more opportunities for breadth or depth in a particular subject than one might expect.</p>
<p>^MIT students can still take up to 50% of their courses at Harvard. I told my son he at least had to take one class there during his 4 years, just to say he took a class at Harvard! But he says it’s too much hassle to coordinate the schedules, go ALL the way over there (yes a whole 2 miles or 2 stops on the T), etc. I’ll keep working on him! ;)</p>
<p>DS wanted to go to MIT, ever since he started listening to the the Click and Clack brothers. We still have a smile when he rattles their phone #. </p>
<p>My S is a grad student at MIT and was an undergrad at Harvard. His GF was a year behind him at Harvard and he didn’t have any problem going “ALL the way over there”. ;)</p>
<p>@cobrat - An MIT degree provides much better career opportunities than a degree from UMass or even Purdue. However, it is possible to get the same undergraduate CS/engineering education at almost any ABET accredited school. I’m not being inconsistent. I’m an EE and would hire for an entry-level position a MIT/Caltech graduate over someone who went to a lesser school, not because the education is so much different, but because those schools only admit the best and brightest. Purdue, for all its strengths, just doesn’t have a selective admissions policy.</p>
<p>Another voice…while the admissions policies may not be so selective…the students in the engineering programs still have to pass the same courses required for ABET. I would look more at the quality of the GRADUATES since many students who enter as engineering majors are weeded out in the first round of courses.</p>
<p>I wish there was a like button for some of these posts. I have a daughter who is a junior nursing major at our state flagship and absolutely loves it. She doesn’t want to be anywhere else. Frankly she was a good student, but put little effort into studying and a lot of effort into her social life. I wouldn’t invest more than the $25,000/year it costs to send her to our state U.
I also have a son who will be attending an Ivy next year - full pay. Yes it is painful to think about all of the money. But he worked hard, is valedictorian, is taking 7 AP classes this year, is a 4 year varsity wrestler and has hundreds of volunteer hours. He has dreamed of going to this university or one like it for many years. For the first time ever, he will be challenged and surrounded by students that have the same work ethic as he does. We are thrilled to literal tears to be able to provide such a wonderful educational opportunity for him. And I do think he will stronger job opportunities when he graduates than if he attended a …dare I say it…Podunk U. I am an exec for one of the largest manufacturing companies in the world. I promise you it does matter where you graduate. Not to say that if you go to a lesser known University you won’t have opportunities, but coming from an elite school gives you a glide path to success.
There is no one size fits all for every student. But to say that Podunk U will be right for everyone is simply small-minded.</p>
<p>NJMom23, In addition to my ivy grad I have a son who is an engineering student at our state flagship. He is interested in a niche area of engineering and our flagship has one of the top programs in the country. Their experiences are very different, but each will have the best possible education available to them.</p>
<p>Exactly, 1moremom. One does not have to have gone to an “elite” as defined here to get the best possible education , the one that is right for them and their particular situation.</p>
<p>1moremom That is exactly my point. I have one that is VERY happy at our state school. It is a terrific fit for her. But my son would not be happy there. As I said there is no one size fits all.</p>
<p>As someone else pointed out, Purdue isn’t a state flagship. Indiana U is closer to being that the Purdue is. I may be woefully out of date—so check yourself—but my understanding is that the biological sciences departments are stronger at IU than they are at Purdue, in part because IU has a medical school and Purdue does not. So, again, I may be out of date, but back in the iron age, in state students who thought they wanted to be physicians went to IU, not Purdue. Math used to be one of the areas in which IU and Purdue was pretty much even. According to US News, for grad programs in physics, they are tied.</p>
<p>Most in state students prefer Bloomington to West Lafayette, so if all else is equal, they choose IU.</p>
<p>In certain niche areas like pedigree obsessed financial/management consulting/ibanking…I’d agree. In most engineering/CS fields…including at some of the biggest names in the computer/tech industry…the pedigree is often emphasized far less as the evaluation is much more on the technical/engineering skills, accomplishments, work ethic, and depending on the firm…an attitude where there is little/no feeling of entitlement for having attended schools like MIT. </p>
<p>Most engineers/CS grads I’ve known in supervisory…including those who attended MIT and Caltech have little use for obsessing over pedigrees or according extra status to those who graduated from the most elite schools…including towards fellow alums. </p>
<p>This is where the stereotypical practicality of engineers/CS folks comes in…they’re going to hire the one with the better technical/engineering skillsets, accomplishments, work ethic, and attitude…regardless of whether the candidate’s an MIT grad or whether he/she graduated from a directional state. </p>
<p>Incidentally…the cousin who is the Caltech EE graduate related some years back that he hired a Cal State engineering graduate over dozens of Stanford, Berkeley, MIT, and even his own alma mater’s graduates in that year’s applicant pool for a hardware programmer/design position because he was way above them in all the areas that matter…technical skills, accomplishments, work ethic, and good attitude. Saying a lot as every one of the owners and most of the staff are graduates of the abovenamed topflight schools. </p>
<p>In practice, they’re far less obsessed about a given prospective hire’s pedigree than many non-technical companies/fields. </p>
<p>This mentality even applies to the biggest names in the computer/engineering firms…a reason why several friends who were average engineering/CS grads at various lower-tiered private/state colleges were hired over dozens of MIT or peer school graduates for entry/intermediate-level engineering/software development positions.</p>
<p>I think intelligence is the real issue. I don’t know if it’s true for most people, but certainly MANY people prefer to marry those who are roughly as intelligent as they are. if there’s a substantial discrepancy, then the male is more likely to be the more intelligent partner. </p>
<p>So, if you’re an intelligent young woman, I think it makes sense to go to a college where you have a better chance of meeting young men who are at least as intelligent as you are. Sure, if a young woman majors in engineering at MIT, a lot of young men will be intimidated by that–but that’s unlikely to include her male MIT classmates. </p>
<p>If she goes to state U and majors in engineering, some young men will still be intimidated when they find out she majored in engineering. Even those who aren’t intimidated may still be turned off if she is in fact much smarter than they are. </p>
<p>Lets say we send the young woman genius to a second tier state U. How likely is it that there are going to be more than a handful of young men who are equally intelligent? </p>
<p>The goal is not to get a lot of dates. The goal is to meet someone you can love and with whom you can build a good relationship. It only takes one person to do that. I think an extremely bright young woman is more likely to do that if she goes to college with a lot of extremely bright young men. </p>
<p>She may not be ready for marriage at that point, but she’ll still have a social network after college that makes it easier to meet extremely bright young men than it will be for an equally intelligent young woman who went to a directional state U.</p>
<p>My son wants a career in academia, and was advised that pedigree in grd school matters. </p>
<p>So far, he has only taken one course at Harvard, A.I.</p>
<p>If the worm had been set on a job in CS, he could have gone to CMU, Caltech or MIT. If he had done well, he’d have a job like Mathmom’s son, where he earned as much each year as 2 years tuition. I have deep reservations that if he had gone to state school, he would have been considered for a company like the one Mathmom’s son entered.</p>
<p>I do think it matters that the worm entered college well before 2008. way before the tuition increased and we were hit with recession. At that time, Caltech offered merit awards for upperclassmen/women. The cost was $10,000 less than other colleges of same caliber, and the later award was so helpful. </p>
<p>Times are tough, and I am grateful to not be making tough choices now.</p>
<p>Even if the relationship is the more common one where the male is the more intelligent partner…if the difference in intelligence is too great…there will be serious relationship problems. </p>
<p>One college friend’s parents went through serious marital difficulties in the middle of their lives because of that very issue…father was a highly intelligent Professor who loved reading highly esoteric academic journals and literature and having highly intellectual bull sessions…mother was an elementary school teacher with a love of “chick lit”, watching TV shows H can’t stand because they were “too dumb”, and preferred talking about TV shows or the latest pseudo-scientific New Agey “discovery”. There was a period of little communication because they simply couldn’t relate to another and each of them had hobbies the other hated and/or were not fathomable to the other.</p>
<p>^^^So why did they get married? I don’t get it. I am even saying that people with different level of intelligence shouldn’t get married, but according to cobrat, it is an issue. H is very intellectual, I am a chick flick kind of person, but we get along just fine.</p>