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<p>Nope, the son of a professor, and a thoroughly gruntled (?) one.</p>
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<p>First of all, one of these posts is technically from the parent of a student.</p>
<p>Then there’s this hearty Harvard endorsement:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12947105-post85.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12947105-post85.html</a></p>
<p>Not that this is representative of reality either.</p>
<p>Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence. And anonymous message board anecdotal evidence is just about as weak as it gets. Nobody is likely to change their mind based on it.</p>
<p>Post #76 is a reflection of one HS or maybe whole NYC. It is by far not the case at D’s HS, the best and the most expansive private prep in our area with kids traveling from other state on a daily basis. Kids go where they want to go and they do not care what others think. This is a cultural difference between the coasts and mid USA. Kids in NYC talk about schools and academics much more. Unspoken rule at D’s HS was never talk about it, no ranking, no val’s, sal’s. HS senior class profile is available, which is required by colleges anyway. Many MD’s kids (kids of MDs and lawyers were well represented at D’s HS) send their kids to local UG / local Med. School to save $$. They do not want them to end up with lots of debt (based on their own experience). Nobody keeps segret about it either. Very healthy environment. While top kids do go to very top schools, it is not always the case.</p>
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<p>However, it is also possible that a school with an academically stronger student body may cover more chapters of the same textbook compared to a school with an academically weaker student body.</p>
<p>Of course, that needs to be checked by inspection of course catalogs and syllabuses for the courses in question, rather than relying on prestige based rankings that are fairly close together.</p>
<p>I’m not from NYC, but from western NY, pretty upstate…
My school didn’t release ranks or name a valedictorian. Your assumptions are way off. We didn’t care where others went but it’s impossible to not notice that the top kids in classes were going to Brown/Cornell/Yale and the less stellar kids go to Geneseo/Binghamton.</p>
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<p>Okay, first of all, you have changed the sentence to which I was responding. The statement was NOT about those who “post bragging about how wonderful pricey, ‘elite’ schools are.” The statement was that "there are some people who doggedly insist that only an ‘elite’ school is “acceptable.” Subtle difference, but different nevertheless. The parents threads feature such posts about the “elite” schools far, far more prominently than negative posts from a few (yet admittedly vocal) naysayers.</p>
<p>That’s my perception, anyway. Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. </p>
<p>My own thoughts on the matter are not that elites are overrated, but that publics or less “prestigious” institutions are often underrated based on nothing more than selectivity.</p>
<p>Another major difference between a top Public and top private colleges are the students who attend. I am not talking about test scores. There is a different level of comfort, and overall college experience, when 80%+ of the students are in state and/or from a surrounding states, compared to the elite privates that are completely opposite. This national diversity, if the student feels comfortable, is a very beneficial. A Top Private (not elite) like George Washington, which compares very well to many top publics, has less than 1% of its students from DC. A top public can be a great bargain, but if money is not an issue, there are many debatable benefits.</p>
<p>^Well, as I neave mentioned, it is at your school, you cannot tell it at others. My own D. went to state after graduating #1. She continued with the same GPA at college. Many of her frineds are at Med. Schools or starting in few months. They are by far high caliber students who did not want to pay full tuition in UG and many are not going to pay for Med. School either.</p>
<h1>84 If I remember correctly it pointed that out, too. Now google books is blocking me when I try to read it. The author has a website.</h1>
<p>[Table</a> of Contents - The Thinking Student’s Guide to College](<a href=“http://sites.google.com/site/thinkingstudentsguide/table-of-contents]Table”>The Thinking Student's Guide to College - Table of Contents)</p>
<p>seem like a lot of good advice for making the most of college
less about how elites are never ever for any student worth the money
quite a bit about research universities vs liberal arts colleges</p>
<p>Here is a question that may be more relevant to more students, who are not going to elite schools (often with good financial aid) or good state flagships:</p>
<p>Is it worth paying $40,000 or $50,000 to attend a mid-level private or out of state public university instead of $20,000 to $30,000 to attend a mid-level in state public university?</p>
<p>“Mid-level” means the schools with most new freshmen coming in at with about a 3.0 GPA and a 1000 SAT CR+M, not the elite privates or top state flagships, and which do not have any particularly good program in the student’s intended major or other special desirable feature specific to that student.</p>
<p>Some entering freshmen still need a lot of nurturing to develop their full potential. For some parents it will be worthwhile to pay for that nurturing: small classes, lots of professorial attention, and administrative oversight.</p>
<p>“the top kids in classes were going to Brown/Cornell/Yale and the less stellar kids go to Geneseo/Binghamton.” </p>
<p>I would guess that those “less stellar” kids are “more stellar” than the kids who went to Some other SUNYs. I doubt they were the bottom of the barrel. </p>
<p>Listen, my undergraduate, tiny honors school in the 80s had some students that werent fantastic, but there were enough smart and interesting people there to create rousing intellectual discussions, both in class and out. In a very unscientific poll, my two pals at very recognizable top schools said they never had philosophical discussions. Mostly their rich friends were searching for cocaine. Yes, their schools are more impressive than mine, but they are no better educated than I am, that I am sure of.</p>
<p>^You forgot to mention Honors colleges. At D’s state UG, qualifications were top 2% of HS class, ACT=31+, not too bad at all, many were valedictorians, very many from private HS’s. BTW, many top kids would recieve huge Merit awards at both state UG’s and privates. Then, they can choose without considering price tag. It requires research beforehand, as both priavtes and states are different in what they award even in comparison to other in their category.
So, while school in average will have freshmen soming with 3.0. Honors at the same school might have freshmen coming with close to 4.0 and having their UG education for free.</p>
<p>I think it is case by case depending on the kid, the schools, the financial resources available, and what the kids wants to do after undergrad. There are amazing kids at all schools. I think the 50th percentile kid at MIT is going to have higher academic potential than the 50th percentile kid at a less selective school, but that does not mean a 99th percentile high school kid has to go to MIT to be challenged or reached his potential.<br>
If my kid had been into science and contemplating med school, she would have taken the full ride to the state flagship. The science tracks there are amazing with lots of research opportunities and the classes are relatively small. Not so in the social sciences. So, we are full pay at a more selective school because it is far stronger in her field, has a specific 5 year program she likes, has better a placement record where she expects to land, and has significantly smaller classes in her major. And, we were fortunate to have saved over the last 18 years.<br>
What is different from my day is that the average loan versus average starting salary (and ease of gaining employment) balance was different. I had a lot of debt from undergrad, but not nearly the same worry of not getting a decent job that these kids face/will face.</p>
<p>The schools I mentioned are honors colleges. I agree, Miami. I think the only thing the honors colleges lack is prestige. One can find good deals and a fantastic education with other smart kids if one is willing to forgo prestige.</p>
<p>I am not putting down the “elite” schools. I’m just not willing to sacrifice a secure retirement to pay for it.</p>
<p>Yes…and when it is phrased the way you describe, i would say i agree significantly more then i do with elites or top flagships whoch has been the debate all day</p>
<p>@Redpoint; Certainly. There were some bright kids going there, but my point is that they were noticeably a notch below the Ivy kids, and from these students I’m willing to extrapolate that my experience with other students is better where I am than it would be were I to have attended Geneseo instead. If you can attend an elite school instead of Geneseo, I’d certainly recommend that you do so.</p>
<p>Redpoint, what if it wasn’t impacting your retirement?</p>
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Sorry, didn’t intend for my post to sound like I was just bragging about my college. My point was, from my experience with local colleges it would have been impossible for me to receive the opportunities I am at a typical state college. This doesn’t mean that everyone should go to my college, but the intended generalization is that there are differences between more selective colleges and less selective ones, and that one can’t make the argument that I could be getting an equally good education at an average state college.</p>
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It is true that I used only anecdotal evidence (and I probably relied on it too much), but I do think that a certain amount of anecdotal evidence has value. While studies are generally much more reliable than stories, even research can often be flawed in subtle ways. There seems to be an abundance of anecdotal evidence that supports the claim that higher-tier colleges provide greater challenges and in certain cases greater opportunities.</p>
<p>The truth seems to be somewhere in the middle in this debate. Yes, it is possible to go to Harvard and not learn a whole lot. It is also possible to learn a tremendous amount at a much less prestigious college. However, the typical student will learn a fairly significant amount more at Harvard than he would at a typical state U. Will this make him more employable? Not necessarily. Will this make it easier to get into grad school? Again, not necessarily. Grades and research are more important than UG prestige. From what I can tell, going to Harvard will typically provide you with a more rigorous education, but it will not always land you a significantly better job. To relate this to the original topic, I think that it’s almost never worth paying full freight for Harvard over reduced tuition at a less prestigious college. However, when the financial difference is negligible (as it is for many low-income families), going to Harvard will often be the better choice.</p>
<p>If money were not an issue, I would be looking for the best program to suit my kid, which would probably be at a small LAC. As it is, we will be looking for the best program we can afford.</p>