PCB Syndrome in High Schools

Parent Cafe
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<p>In another post, the "holy trinity" of sciences were discussed. Another name for this is PCB (Physics, Chemistry, Biology) Syndrome. Included in this post is an informative article from the journal PALAIOS, I am unsure if it is peer-reviewed or not, but it is a very good and representative read. </p>

<p>To open discussion about this article, how many of your children were discouraged from taking an Earth Science because it's the science of which the "lower level" students are tracked? Also, how many of your children can name five careers (other than professor) that an Earth Scientist can fill?</p>

<p>Enjoy!</p>

<p><a href="http://www.unc.edu/%7Esdilts/links.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.unc.edu/~sdilts/links.html&lt;/a> (it is the "Enlightening Article on high school education...")</p>

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<p>At my kids' high school, all ninth graders had to take Earth Science. The most advanced kids could take the Honors class of this course which also had a lab. What I have learned by reading about others from different high schools in other states, is that the accelerated kids can take Bio in ninth but NOT HERE. My kids, who took the hardest tracked classes available throughout school, had Earth Science Honors in ninth, Biology Honors in tenth, Chemistry Honors in eleventh and AP Physics in twelfth. So, no they were not discouraged from taking Earth Science....they HAD to! </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>At my sons' school, they are required to take Biology in 9th, Chemistry in 10th and Physics in 11th. S1 also took AP Bio in 11th and AP Chem and AP Physics in 12th. He's a science kid -- although the workload was a challenge, we felt it was important to take all 3 AP Science classes to prepare for college, not to test out of college level classes.</p>

<p>If Earth Science is really geology, I think it would be wonderful. DH spent some time as a Geophysics major, and it's still near and dear to his heart. But if it meant that my sons would not be able to do the 3 AP classes mentioned above, I'd have reservations. They can certainly take geology classes in college, but I think the foundation of chemistry and physics would be important for that also. Am I missing something in the question? Earth Science is not offered at their school, but I'm sure some of the topics must be addressed in other classes? Personally, I would think it was way cool to work for the US Geological Survey!</p>

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<p>soozievt:</p>

<p>That is encouraging, and yes, many schools do recommend students bypass Earth Science as a freshman to take biology.</p>

<p>sjmom2329:</p>

<p>Did you read the article I posted? It's less than two pagesAt the end it goes into the teacher's plight to get an AP Geology class approved by the College Board. I understand why you would like your students to still be able to take AP Bio/Chem/Physics, but a great capstone course would be a Geology class where you could integrate the issues learned in the aforementioned classes in a global context. </p>

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They can certainly take geology classes in college, but I think the foundation of chemistry and physics would be important for that also.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, this is true, but in the article it is mentioned that most students will not take that geology class. Your children will have more exposure to geology from your husband's interests, however, most don't get this either at home or at school.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Earth Science is not offered at their school, but I'm sure some of the topics must be addressed in other classes?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It wasn't offered at my high school either, and no it wasn't addressed in any of my other classes. The only time I was exposed to geology was for a unit in 8th grade Earth Science, in which I was never exposed to rock or mineral identification or any labs in general. This probably varies between schools and teachers, but most teachers probably don't mention it... </p>

<p>
[quote]
Personally, I would think it was way cool to work for the US Geological Survey!

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</p>

<p>Yeah, to an extent...but a lot of the maps they create aren't the best. They are good base maps though and they do get to spend a lot of time in the field! :) </p>

<p>All: Please read the article, it won't take but a few minutes to do so, it's only two pages :D</p>

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<p>as noted, the Calif standards require teaching of geology, but it's not typically done in a full year honors class. Interestingly, the data since 1990 show that Physics completion has increased....in 1990 there were more students taking geology than physics. It seems like the market has turned.</p>

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<p>My Daughter attended a 6-12 school. The entire 8th grade takes earth science and the corresponding NYS regents exam and received h.s. credit for the course. In high school they take BCP along With the NYS regents exams and a choice of AP Chem or AP Physics</p>

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<p>neither of my daughters high schools offer geology- the older daughter took physics-biology chemistry- environmental science ecology in high school- younger daughter is taking biology freshman year- marine science sophmore year and I imagine chem junior year.
However in the marine science class which is called science instead of biology for a reason- there is a great deal of geology included. In sept I accompanied the class on a field trip through eastern washington where we drove the highest road in Wa ( slate peak 7,000 ft) and they found fossils, as well as examined the diatomous earth beds along the gorge.
The marine science class is considered the most difficult track- other sophomore classes include environmental science and genetics</p>

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<p>At my S's charter school, they take 9th grade physics, 10th grade chemistry, 11th grade biology/zoology (college level) and 12th grade geology (college level).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
My Daughter attended a 6-12 school. The entire 8th grade takes earth science and the corresponding NYS regents exam and received h.s. credit for the course. In high school they take BCP along With the NYS regents exams and a choice of AP Chem or AP Physics

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I went to a 6-8 middle school and I took Earth Science in 8th grade w/ the Regents as well. It was fun stuff. Much better than biology :P</p>

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<p>At my school, the honors sciene track takes Earth Science (with labs) in 8th grade (then the NYS regents test), Biology 9th, Chemistry 10th and then AP Chem, Bio or Physics R/H/AP 11th and 12th (only 3 sciences, including ES required). The regular track just starts a year later with Earth Science in 9th grade which is required. Most people take physics in senior year. I'm personally glad I took Earth Science, it was an interesting course and I love rocks and minerals so that was fun for me.</p>

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<p>My school system followed the same track as Anoel's. I took Earth Science in 8th grade, but it was very poorly taught. We didn't do a single lab, which I find terrible in a science class. </p>

<p>To be honest, I haven't been that impressed with my intro Earth science courses here either. We actually had to cover what protons/neutrons/electrons are, radioactive decay, and what continental drift is. Most of the people in there are non-science majors trying to get an easy science credit. I hate being stuck in a "rocks for jocks" class. :mad:</p>

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<p>At son's high school earth space science is a non-lab science. The less successful academic student is encouraged to take this class in ninth grade, and most of the special education students that are in the mainstream take it. The school claims that there is easier science vocabulary for a atudent who struggles with reading. Yet, many of the ESL kids take bio, so that rationale flies out the window. This is the way the hs can group all special needs students into one science class and have it team taught with special education teacher. These students will kind of travel together through their sciences for the rest of high school. My son did not take the course, but heard that it was a waste of time.</p>

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<p>Earth science is required at my school, and it is taught by the best teacher in the department. We had some quite difficult problems in the honors course, as well. Labs were only occassional.</p>

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<p>It is probably a good think that there is so little emphasis on earth sciences and geology in HS. It appears the teachers don't have any background or competency in teaching this subject. HS level science education often suffers from a shortage of qualified teachers for PCB. The situation is even worse for the more esoteric subjects.</p>

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<p>I have got to say that I think all of the science teachers I have have observed in Ds school have been very good. They should be- we are in an area where we should be among the tops in the country for science.
But the math program is crap- and most science classes require at least some high school math-
Marine science didn't have a math prereq, but the math they are using is way above what she has been taught- so she has had to a get a lot of extra help for the navigation project</p>

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<p>Great discussion thus far! It's quite encouraging to see that a lot of students are exposed to the Earth Sciences in an engaging manner.</p>

<p>Those who have had children or current high schoolers take a course with geology in it, did it impress you enough to want to take one as an elective in college or possibly major in it? And for those with little to no or poor exposure, did it discourage from taking a college level class in it?</p>

<p>Also, nobody has responded as to whether their children know what somebody can do as a career in geology or related fields after their Earth Science courses. </p>

<p>warblersrule86:</p>

<p>Sorry to hear about your rocks for jocks class, you're at Duke, correct? Here at UNC intro geology has to be taught at a lower level (most students don't understand basic algebra...quite sad...) and there is another class, for science majors that goes more in depth in the subject matter. Is there an offering like that at Duke, or are they all lumped together?</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, they're lumped. EOS 11 (Intro geology) and EOS 12 (Intro oceanography) are required for the major, but anyone can take them. As far as I know, there's only about 4 of us freshmen considering majoring in EOS, so we're outnumbered. :p Actually, the oceanography class isn't as bad because it's mostly biology majors (it's cross-listed in Bio). It'll be a lot better once I get into the 100-level courses, though. :)</p>

<p>The article you posted mentioned geology majors being "hooked" accidentally. Oddly enough, that applies to me. I read The Oceans by Ellen Prager, and I was fascinated.</p>

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<p>At my daughter's high school, one of the biggest secrets is that students can take biology in ninth grade. The GCs steer kids to astronomy/geology, and only if parents raise the topic can students take biology. Most of the top kids double up in ninth grade and take bio, astronomy and geology; Chemistry in 10th, AP Bio in 11th (the only science AP offered) and Physics in 12th. Parents and students who aren't in the know are furious when they find out that the A/G combo can be either avoided or doubled up on. </p>

<p>In our school, AP bio, chemistry and physics take up two periods a day. It's almost impossible to double up on sciences after ninth grade because of this. I'm curious how other schools handle that.</p>

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<p>Our district requires physical science in 9th, biology in 10th, and that's it. Kids on the college track take chemistry in 11th and physics in 12, although because of scheduling quirks sometimes they do it the other way around. Physical science is elementary physics and chemistry with a little tiny bit of weather and geology thrown in at the end. the honors class is quite good--DD is doing well in AP physics due to the foundation she got in honors physicial science as a freshman.</p>

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<p>Someone said Geology would be a good capstone course after Biology, Chemistry and Physics and that might be correct, at least as an alternative to AP courses. </p>

<p>One problem, though, is that Chemistry requires a certain level of competence in algebra and Physics, properly taught, requires at least trig and preferably Calculus, so our failure to move enough of our seventh and eigth graders along in math at international pace is a problem for science, too.</p>

<p>For those in favor of a less serious Earth Science course, do you also favor a less serious Biology course for those who won't take science in college? Smell the flowers anyone?</p>