<p>bars on the windows around penn's campus???? What the ---- are you smoking?????</p>
<p>Collegeparent I agree that rankings-wise penn is overrated. Penn is a great school but I don't think that It should be at #4, personally I think that it should be at the lower end of the top 10.</p>
<p>oh and on a side note penn grads get way better jobs than WASP grads. Most WASP grads end up as starving academics...</p>
<p>I have a D in grad school at Penn. She is a real fraidy-cat as a rule, but I have never heard her express any concern for her safety on the campus. I DO hope she is careful, as I would be in any city, or any place, for that matter.</p>
<p>I have spent considerable time in the Penn area myself, and though I am sure the city has more dangerous areas, I shall share one incident with you . . .when in college at a nearby LAC, DD had a flare of her IBD (Crohns) and had to spend 3 weeks in the UPenn Hospital. I came up from TN to stay with her. Once, when taking a walk near the hospital on the Penn Campus, I stopped to eat at the wonderful garden in the midst of the campus. I was distracted with worry, and walked off leaving my purse. Now I am not going to be a pollyanna and tell you ALL was well, as about $100 was taken from it, but I do want you to know that some kind and upset soul found my purse and it was back to me at DD's hospital room before I even knew I had left it. Someone had taken it to the nearby Medical Center and the folks on the staff there took an hour tracking me down via the numbers in her cell phone, which I had with me. If I had NOT gotten my purse back, I would have had no money, no credit card, no ID and therefore no way to get back on the airplane to TN. I need not tell you how grateful I was, and how much I was blessed that day by The City of Brotherly Love.</p>
<p>DH and I met at Penn centuries ago! We've been back for several reunions and found the area a little bit better though the Grad Towers, where we met, seemed like a locked fortress but at least the security was good. What freaked me out were the panic buttons in many of the bldg bathrooms. On the other hand, we know many kids who graduated Penn and loved it plus had no safety issues; they were careful to walk with friends, use the escort service, etc. S3 might consider Penn.</p>
<p>"Just because it is one of the larger Ivies (2500+ students per class) and thus one of the Ivies with the highest acceptance rates does not mean that it is less selective as many believe (in reality if all the ivies had the same size incoming class (capped at 1000)- holding the acceptance rates, yields, and applicant pool sizes constant - penn would be the 3rd most selective ivy."</p>
<p>If I had some ham, I could have a ham sandwich, if I had some bread.</p>
<p>Lovely - panic buttons in the bathrooms and escorts on campus. I just don't understand why anyone would want to go to school in Philadelphia. It's not one of the major cities. It's cultural attractions are relatively limited compared to NYC, Chicago, LA or Chicago. The weather is mediocre. I will admit that you can get a good cheesesteak. But most of our children will end up in careers where they spend a large portion of their lives in cities. Why not go to school in a more rural environment where you can enjoy the outdoors; hiking, camping, rock climbing, etc.? Or at least in a larger city with less crime.</p>
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Why not go to school in a more rural environment where you can enjoy the outdoors; hiking, camping, rock climbing, etc.?
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<p>My daughter is a hiker, rock climber and an outdoorsy person in general but had no interest in going to school in a suburban or rural location. She wanted to continue to be her outdoorsy self with all of the cultural choices that a city offers. Different strokes for different folks. </p>
<p>Having lived in Philadelphia or it's suburbs for 25 years I have to say that it is a terrific smaller city. No, it is not NYC or Chicago but it has much to offer and would be a great place to go to school. Many of my daughter's friends ended up at Penn and one writes for the school paper so I check it out from time to time and have read the occasional article about crime on or near the campus. IMO, security at Penn is an issue because of the campus geography and having many students living in apartments off campus. The impression that I have gotten is that (like any urban school) often the victims of crime are in the neighborhood surrounding the campus or on the edges of campus late at night and not in a group.</p>
<p>I lived 10 blocks west of Penn (in the "ghetto") between 47th and 49th off Baltimore for 11 years, before any of it was gentrified. And I had my office there. Our 7-bedroom house cost $5,500. I was never mugged. I never had anything stolen. I never witnessed a murder (well, there was the day that the police shot up the MOVE complex.) My wife worked nights downtown, and came home at 2-3 a.m. Same for her. Crime was rumored to be worse around the university, though, but I think the rumors (not the truth but the rumors) were spread by a larger percentage of middle-class white folks living there.</p>
<p>Now Hyde Park, on the other hand, I found much more scary. The University attempted to wall itself off from the surrounding community, and tensions always ran high, and crime rates experienced by students seemed much, much higher. Don't know what it is like today.</p>
<p>Mini,
I lived in West Philadelphia during the late 70's. I wonder if we crossed paths. I managed the Urban Outfitters at 4040 Locust while my husband was in grad school. The Move people used to panhandle outside of the store. There was crime at the time but more shoplifting than anything violent. The character of crime did seem to change a bit with the influx of crack cocaine. I think the neighborhood took a little plunge and has now swung back upward.</p>
<p>Yup. Probably knew you (I lived there '76-'87). I knew Richard Haynes. Crime I think was higher down your way where the white folks were. My publishing house had its office at 49th and Baltimore, and warehouse at 47th and Springfield - I knew the neighborhood well, and actually had some friendly acquaintances with some of the MOVE folks.</p>
<p>Off topic (sorry!):
Mini - It was a wonderful first job. Dick was a great boss. He has taken some heat for being a major donor to Santorum and the local writings comment about his political evolution as if it is a big surprise....he was a very singular guy even then and I am not surprised at all. I have nothing politically in common with him but he has turned UO/Anthropologie into an major retail presence and I respect him for that. I wish him well as a person.</p>
<p>Yeah, I knew him in his left phase - he then went one direction and I the other. He ended up with more money. Those are the breaks! ;)</p>
<p>Folks from Penn were often afraid to come out and visit us - I made a point of inviting them to come eat at the little Ethiopian restaurant two doors down from me, or the Indian restaurant run by friends at 49th and Baltimore, or Caspars up on 51st. Racism pure and simple - it was safe to be a liberal while on the Penn Campus, just don't venture 8 blocks west. I used to bike into town on a little folding bicycle (had another job on 15th and Walnut).</p>
<p>hmmmmm..... I lived at 48th & Pine, 78 - 80. :) We had no crime problems in our fortified rowhouse. My Dodge van, parked on the street, was gently relieved of its CB radio (one theft in 2 yrs). My trusty Schwin Varsity disappeared early on while chained to a bike rack in front of Vance Hall. </p>
<p>This thread is ridiculous! Overhype stat-bragging counterbalanced by uninformed Penn-bashing, with a little Phily-bashing thrown in for good measure. good grief!</p>
<p>I must admit that I had a negative view of Penn as well colored by how it used to be the doormat of the Ivy League when I was in school and because of the perception of Philly as crime ridden.</p>
<p>My DD was accepted at Duke and Penn and chose Penn because Philly has a lot of classical musical activities such as the Curtis Institute and the Philadelphia Symphony. They also have a music in the College Houses program that brings in musicians for concerts in these dormitories and the Philadelphia Symphony will have three of their ensembles playing in the College Houses this year. Having visited the campus now two times I guess I am pleasantly surprised that it was not as bad as I thought it would be. Everyone at Penn has been wonderful to interact with. My DD has a chronic illness and the Director of Student Health Services called me on the phone to talk me through how to handle it on campus for about 15 minutes. DD has been named a University Scholar and will have a summer of research sponsored by Penn anywhere in the world. All in all I have been quite pleased and surprised by Penn so far and would just say don't dimsiss it out of hand without visiting it first or looking at it further.</p>
<p>well put saintofme...Penn's image still suffers from 15-20 years ago when it was the doormat ivy and when Philly was just a scary place. Now Philly is much much better and because of the last few administrations (specifically that of Judith Rodin) Penn has really grown and become a world class institution. It is no longer the doormat Ivy although some still perceive it as this because they have not studied the changes that the university has gone through. I just hope that some people take the time to research the university before discarding it because of preconcieved notions...it truly is a great place to go to school. </p>
<p>From what a friend of mine has told me Penn is likely moving up to 3rd on USNEWS and world report tied with Yale...I tend to believe him as his mother works for USNEWS. :)</p>
<p>being ranked third would do wonders for Penn's exponential rise.</p>
<p>Penn, Duke, WUSTL all have really risen the last 20 years.</p>
<p>"Now Philly is much better and because of the last few administrations Penn has really grown and become a world class institution."</p>
<p>Can you give some examples. I'm not arguing, just would like to know in which areas Penn has really grown. Faculty? Physical plant? Reputation?</p>
<p>It certainly has become much more selective, but how much is because Penn is a better school than it was 20 years ago? Philadelphia is a decent city but a lot of eastern big cities have cleaned up their act in the past couple decades. City schools in general are enjoying popularity these days, and any ivy seems to be the goal today of a good number of overachievers. To an extent (like WashU today) Judith Rodin learned to play the usnews numbers, what with accepting such a large ED class (I know, yield is no longer considered, but it was during Penn's assent).</p>
<p>btw I was a Penn grad student '74-'78. We lived at 4524 Pine...my car was one of those with a metal chain that held the front hood down...dad put it on after my second car battery was stolen (the days before hood latches). Phila was filled with this auto accessory at the time. It's a good thing college students are young. I was never afraid of my neighborhood at 25...now is a different story.</p>
<p>without ever spending time in philly (exception: weekend trip to franklin institute and sesame place, age nine), I'm concidering applying to Penn for law school. I've lived in DC and spent a good bit of time in New York; I hope to apply to some schools in each, as well as Boston and the Bay Area. In your opnions, is the area around UPenn significantly less safe than the areas around selective law schools in the other cities I've mentioned? Are there precautions I should probably take if living near UPenn versus at other schools (ie, driving to campus rather than using public transportation, not walking alone from parking areas to libraries)? I realize that as a law student I'm likely to keep late and erratic hours, and I'd like to feel reasonably safe doing so.</p>
<p>One major change at penn the last 5-6 years was the institution of a residential house system in which the faculty and other Penn staff reside in the dormitories and there are programmatic activities sponsored through the college houses. The dorms were also renovated recently.</p>
<p>The Rodin administration also sought to increase Penn's endowment. They increased it from one of the smallest in the Ivy to now one of the largest in the country. Also in addition to the residential system, the university has injected a lot of money into various programs so as to improve their academic quality. Now many of Penn SAS programs are top 10-15 programs, many being in the top 5. Some of the new deans that have been brought in have also tried to improve the faculty in many departments and have said that they want to make the majority of Penn's programs top 5. The new SAS dean said his next goal is to make the English & History program, which are top 10, top 5 programs with the goal of making them the best in the nation. A lot of money has also been injected into many of the schools like Wharton in order to build new facilities or remodel existing ones. Now Wharton has the most advanced business learning facility in the world, Huntsman Hall. Future plans include building a similar structure for SAS on the new land that the university acquired next to the river. Other major changes have been Penn's eagerness to improve the areas around the school. Now because Penn bought a lot of the land they have started to develop nice retail and dining locales around campus. There are still future plans to further develop the areas around houses including building luxury lofts and more upscale retail and dining. In addition, Penn has begun forming greater relationships with other schools in order to give it's students the best opportunities. For example, Penn has created a Masters program with JHU in business and international relations. Penn has also developed inner joint-degree programs such as M&T, Huntsman, etc. which are unique only to Penn. Penn is one of the few elite universities that allows its students to graduate with 2 degrees and the university has tried to accomodate those student that wish to pursue this option. Plus as someone mentioned above Rodin definitely knew how to play the USNWR game as one of her major goals was to improve the university's visibility and reputation.</p>
<p>So far the new president, Amy Gutmann, has really just begun and she has outlined some key goals for the university in her Penn Compact. We'll see if she can live up to Rodin's legacy.</p>