I’ve asked a similar question before, but would like some additional input from this gang. Perhaps there is something we are not considering or thinking about.
This is regarding S18: High scoring candidate (single sitting 36ACT, 1530 SAT, likely NMF) with mediocre grades (3.85 UW 4.1W) limited EC, and potentially uncompelling essays. So, please understand, the context of the question is viewed with the understanding that either option is a severe reach. Eyes wide open. This is not a “Chance” thread…. his chances are slim.
But ….he will likely use one of his precious “reach” applications to apply to one of the following: Princeton | Penn.
Considerations:
He will NOT have an opportunity to visit either one until/unless he is accepted. We live far away, so logistics will be similar at each. He would be thousands of miles, a train ride, and a couple plane connections away.
All things being equal … he would prefer a smaller environment, not necessarily a big city person.
When he thinks “college”, the image that pops in to his head is probably Princeton. I mean, quite literally the campus and romanticism of the residential colleges, etc.
He will study Math/Applied Math, with the current plan of Actuarial Sciences as a career. That’s subject to change of course as all things related to 17 year olds are….
Our typical NPC/EFC is far from reality at most schools. Given their high household income range bands, Princeton’s calculator helps and is close to something we could afford. Penn’s is likely less favourable. All of that is subject to unknowns but is what we have to go with.
Princeton’s comprehensive undergraduate focus is a plus. It is an approach S18 would be generally comfortable with. Somewhat helpful for the unknown factor.
Penn’s opportunities in Math are unique. As I understand, their Actuarial Sciences Minor seems to be a partnership with Statistics through Wharton and the Math Department in the A&S School. I think you declare as an A&S Math Major. This would be a hard to pass up opportunity IF he really knows that is what he wants to do.
Unlikely to matter, but I am not aware of any recent graduates of his high school going to Penn. There have been several recently to go to Princeton.
Because of financial concerns, any binding or semi binding early applications are probably out. SCEA (Princeton) and ED (Penn) probably can not be accommodated.
Son is fairly socially conservative. I don’t mean poltically per se, and he is more than open to all types of people and discussions, but he is relatively conservative from a social perspective.
My current lean is toward Princeton. Despite the more targeted math focus opportunity at Penn, I think he would be more comfortable at Princeton. It would almost certainly be more affordable, to the effect that he probably could not attend Penn, but might be able to swing Princeton.
And one last time … We don’t expect either to be an acceptance.
It precludes you from OTHER non rolling EA submissions, no? Specifically, “You may apply early to any college or university with a nonbinding rolling admission process.”
Unfortunately, there are a couple other EA schools that are not “rolling” that will be applied to. Perhaps I am interpreting this wrong.
Yes, Princeton SCEA will not allow you to apply to other binding privates, but if like we were you are looking for the flexibility of looking for financial aid via merit scholarships throughout the year you would not be applying binding EA to another private anyway, we never felt hindered by the Princeton SCEA restrictions. (I think it’s main intent is to prevent you applying to other Ivys early, so they know they are your first choice amnongst them).
@aneeshs17
It’s beyond the scope of the thread, but your UW GPA is likely not going to be the determining factor in whether you are accepted or not (to Wharton). In the context of Wharton admissions, it is not stellar. It is certainly not poor. I am sure you have other threads on your admission strategy, and hopefully you will find compelling ECs, Essays, Recommendations, etc will mitigate a “mediocre” (in the context of Wharton) UW GPA.
My intent in the OP was to paint the picture that, for my particular Son, whether to apply to Penn or Princeton was a very specific type of question, and not a “will I get in to my dream school or nothing” scenario.
I can’t speak to the math part, but FWIW, when beginning my daughter’s own college search, a friend of mine who is a distinguished professor at an elite university said that of the Ivies, the one that offered the best undergraduate experience was Princeton. He is not employed at Princeton.
Given that your son is not a big city person and that Princeton is both more affordable and non-binding SCEA (albeit precluding early applications at other private Unis), I would lean towards Princeton.
Additionally, the campus is beautiful in a traditional academic style.
Newark International + train is not a bad gateway to get to Princeton campus.
Maybe I’m missing something here, but given that Penn ED is not an option, why not apply SCEA to Princeton and work with your son on making this decision after being accepted to and visiting both schools? This obviously assumes Princeton and Penn are his top two options you are considering, but I think doing this is a good move because it can lessen anxiety on your end in terms of trying to plan this out and figure out which is best when, no offense, it likely won’t matter (most students would be lucky to get into just one of Penn or Princeton…getting into both is even harder) and also can lessen potential disappointment for your son if you establish a preference and then he doesn’t get into the preferred school but gets into the other one. I’d just treat them as co-#1’s for now and make this decision next Spring if your son is lucky enough to get into both schools.
There is only time and room for so many “reaches”. Penn & Princeton are fighting for the final spot.
As stated before, SCEA at Princeton precludes other EA reaches he is applying to… following letter of law.
It’s not so much that they are “co #1s”, they just fit a niche in his application strategy. Bear in mind, “reach” is not merely an academic term, but a financial one as well.
@aneeshs17 while anything in the 3.8 range is not bad at all, it is technically mediocre given that the average of the incoming class at Penn hovers around 3.93-3.95 each year.
@DavidPuddy as anyone familiar with the forum knows, I am a huge Penn fan. However from your description Princeton seems to be a better fit. If he will regret not applyin to Peiceton than Penn ED is not the way to go. Penn and Princeton are very different schools in terms of culture, vibe etc.
while in terms of actuarial science Penn might offer something extra, in terms of math, Princeton def has the edge.
You can’t go wrong with either but the most important thing here is fit into.
In that case, I’d lean towards Princeton. In my opinion, it is a better fit for your son. Don’t get too caught up in the fact that Penn has an actuarial science program. There are only 4 actuarial science courses total and they just teach to the test for 4 of the SOA/CAS exams. If your son wants to become an actuary, he can still do that by going to Princeton and self-studying (or using an online resource like The Infinite Actuary, etc.) for the exams. If your son has some free time this summer, he can study for and try taking Exam P and/or FM later this summer or this fall. I think having a passing score on an actuary exam would be impressive to an admissions committee, showing that your son is motivated and has a good idea of what he wants to be when he grows up.
Edit: Worth noting that you need to know calculus for Exam P but not FM, so if your son wants to try studying for an exam and hasn’t taken calculus yet, he’d want to try FM.
@ConcernedRabbit
The term I used was mediocre. In context, it is entirely accurate. I’ll stand by it.
@WhartonPenn2017
Agree with you re the actual AS program, but, it has cachet specific to the AS hiring world, especially for some of the … less pedestrian AS entry level job fields. Your idea about taking one of the initial exams would be a good one, were his dance card not already full. He does have an existing calc background.
Just wondering, has your son looked into ORFE at Princeton? Might be interesting to him if he’s interested in math/applying math to a business discipline (like insurance markets as an actuary)
I gotcha guys. Thanks for clarifying. I’ll definitely have to make up the other parts of my application.
also, @DavidPuddy best of luck to your son in his future endeavors. Those “potentially uncompelling” essays don’t have to be so! They’re not like ECs, which take years of dedication. If he’d be up for it, ask him to start brainstorming essay ideas right now - he’ll be glad he did so! There’s also a lot of great guides here and online for the Do’s and Dont’s of essay writing. It’s up to him how much voice he wants to bring for the admissions to see in why he wants to come to Penn/Princeton. If all his other stats are mediocre/sub-par, then a solid, well-written essay seems like one of his best bets of getting in.
Well anyways, that’s just my two cents on this. Best of luck to him, I’m sure he’ll do great wherever he goes!
