<p>Looking for advice about choosing between the two. With financial aid, the cost will be about the same. I know that both are party schools, have a lot of school spirit, are somewhat traditional, etc. Trying to get a sense of the pros and cons when comparing the engineering programs. My son will probably major in civil, but is undecided. Thanks.</p>
<p>I would heartily recommend PSU over Lehigh for engineering. Lehigh is a good school, but it’s small size and limited resources mean that the engineering curriculums there tend to be long on theory and breadth and short on the practice and depth that both companies and grad schools like to see. The Lehigh engineering grads I know all wound up in areas like technical sales or (down the road) program management - none of them went into traditional engineering jobs.</p>
<p>That’s funny because all of the Lehigh graduates that I know are really solid technically and also have terrific people skills. I’m very impressed with this place. </p>
<p>At Penn State, they delay the engineering curriculum so that the people from the satellite schools who transfer in aren’t too far behind.</p>
<p>So, cosmicfish and ClassicRockerdad, I appreciate your input. But the conflicting input you both give is why we’re so confused about making this choice. Any other thoughts?</p>
<p>Also, ClassicRocker, is it a problem when the curriculum is delayed like at Penn State? </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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<p>Potentially. It may force too much compression in the last two years. Penn State even recommends taking 5 years at a more leisurely pace. I don’t think that’s a bad idea for someone who finds engineering difficult, but if you really want to finish in 4 years, your last two years at Penn State might be rather compressed (and really hard) and too much time may be wasted in the first 2 years. </p>
<p>I didn’t look carefully at Civil where the compression may not be as bad, I looked at Chemical and compared it to what other schools do. They didn’t start any engineering courses until the 4th semester. I think that’s kind of late. A quick look shows me that civil doesn’t look quite as bad, but you should check it out for yourself. Compare what you learn when for the two schools and see if it’s particularly compressed or different. </p>
<p>Back when I was in school, I found it really difficult to take 4 technical courses at the same time. Now it seems more common, but I wonder how hard that is. </p>
<p>Lehigh has an intro to engineering course for freshman which goes through all of the engineering disciplines and at least for ChemE starts engineering 3rd semester. Some of the schools we looked at like Rochester started 1st semester and had a special course for freshman, like Green Energy which introduced some basic concepts in the context of something that they would find appealing. Penn had biotechnology to introduce ChemE. At least if it turns out that you find the field not what you thought it was there is some hope of steering another direction in time to finish in 4 years. </p>
<p>Just some food for thought and research. </p>
<p>Good luck with the decision</p>
<p>OP, having visited Lehigh yesterday with my son, I can tell you that cosmicfish’s assessment is not correct. Lehigh has lots of “toys” and they pride themselves on getting engineers involved early and frequently. It isn’t as project intensive as say WPI or Cal Poly, but few are. The main difference I see is that yes, PSU will have more toys, but their use will be dominated by grad students, lectures will be huge and many of your classes will be taught by TAs. It’s a matter of what you want, but don’t shy away from Lehigh based on anything you’ve read here. Visit both if you can. Good luck.</p>
<p>M</p>
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Not disputing that all, just saying that the Lehigh grads I knew lacked the technical depth that all the engineering departments were looking for. They all had good fundamentals and were indeed good with people. They just were not as ready to hit the ground running in our design departments, so they found homes in other departments.</p>
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Yes and no - the official schedules do put off the core engineering courses until the end of the sophomore year, but I do not think Lehigh starts more than a semester earlier than that. And at EITHER school, your actual courseload is going to depend on the student, where they stand coming in, and how they perform in their first few semesters.</p>
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Very much an individual thing - I know people who did indeed struggle with that load, I actually preferred not having to interrupt my senior-level courses with History or Philosophy.</p>
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Grad students certainly spend MORE time in the labs, but that is not saying that undergrads are barred from them - they get whatever access they actually need and are prepared for. When I was an undergrad at PSU I got involved with atmospheric lidar, processing data from ice cores, and building my own conformal antennas - grad students did more of this, but I got my hands dirty in a lot of diverse areas. And my point was that PSU (like most large engineering schools) has a greater breadth and depth of classes and labs, which gives students more opportunities to select areas of specialization and more chances to really get some experience there.</p>
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It depends a lot on the courses you take, but I certainly cannot deny that there are some huge classes at PSU. I had some “general education” lectures (like basic chemistry) with hundreds of students, and the core EE courses typically had 60-100 students, dropping down to 5-20 students for the technical electives. And the labs and some recitation sections are indeed taught by TA’s, but that is not necessarily a bad thing - at the end of the day, I learned some things better from the grad students who just struggled with the same material than I did from the world-renowned professors who learned those basics years decades ago. Remember that the TA’s are teaching basics that are in many cases hundreds of years old, they are not taking students to the limits of modern science.</p>
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Absolutely agree - visit, see what you like, talk to some students. It has been most of a decade since I looked at either school, and a lot may have changed. Even if it hasn’t, your son should go whereever he feels he has the greatest chance to succeed, and that is very much an individual thing.</p>
<p>Either school will give you an excellent education. You need to consider the setting, which is very different between the two schools. If I were deciding, it would be a toss up, so I would have to look beyond the engineering department in order to make my decision. I don’t envy you because both schools have a lot going for them.</p>
<p>Anecdotes based on limit data can be misleading. I’m a Lehigh grad that has spent his entire career in R&D, and I am certainly not alone. I think the element that sets Lehigh apart from peer-institutions of similar size is the access to labs and research facilities. For example, the OP specifically mentions an interest in civil, and Lehigh is home to the National Engineering Research Center ATLSS which could offer opportunities beyond what Penn State could provide (and I am certainly not knocking Penn State).</p>
<p>[ATLSS</a> Engineering Center](<a href=“Welcome | Advanced Technology for Large Structural Systems”>http://www.atlss.lehigh.edu/)</p>
<p>Thank you so much. These are really helpful comments.</p>
<p>I am the wife of a Lehigh grad and the parent of an accepted student for the Class of 2017 at Lehigh. I can tell you from a parents point of view and from many years of going to Lehigh events from sports to dinners, etc. The school is amazing, do you want to attend a very large school? or a smaller school? Do you want to be able to attend football games or any other sporting event without having to enter a lottery? The Lehigh that I have seen has caring professors - they truly want their students to succeed. Not that Penn State does not, but it is a different atmosphere. Lehigh is truly an elite university in every sense of the word. I wish you luck with your decision…</p>
<p>Have you looked at what elective engineering courses are available at the two schools? Are there different areas of emphasis to be pursued at one vs. the other? People define elite schools in different ways. You would undoubtedly get an excellent education at either school. So perhaps it comes down to looking at the details of the courses, research areas, recruitment, etc. Think about what is important to you. </p>
<p>As far as class size, all you can get here are generalizations. At Penn State, I remember calc as large lectures with smaller recitation classes a few times a week. The recitations had maybe 30 students and were very helpful. Yes they were taught by grad students. Because of this, I looked forward to my recitation class. I usually liked the grad students and felt comfortable asking questions. Classes the last 2 years were much smaller, In some cases 20 something. I got to know my professors. I enjoyed being part of a tight knit group, had the opportunity to do undergrad research, and was, frankly, oblivious to the fact that I should feel like just a number. </p>
<p>You have 2 great choices. Congratulations.</p>
<p>Not sure why all the Lehigh basing but my D is a recent Lehigh grad. She’s not in technical sales nor are any of her friends that I know of. One thing I would look for is the availability of getting the classes he needs. It can sometimes be hard to schedule the classes you need at a bigger school, it was not something that was encountered at Lehigh. </p>
<p>One thing that was a plus for us was that all first year engineering students take the same classes and declare a major at the end of the first year. If he’s unsure of what discipline he wants its a great idea. </p>
<p>Very different schools he will get a good education both places.</p>
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<p>I don’t see any Lehigh bashing. I think this is a good discussion. OP’s S has a nice choice to make and should think deeply about it and do due diligence at each school. A couple visits and some contemplation of all of the issues presented should allow him to come to the right decision and learn something about himself in the process.</p>
<p>Sorry I had a response but I was being petty</p>
<p>Thanks again for all of your ideas.</p>