Penn State Scandal

<p>Me too, Purplekiwis, me too!</p>

<p>You can sue, it has been done before. And even if you could not, who would want to work for that company anyways? @Ubujim-nice point!</p>

<p>I wish PSU the best of luck, because this is going to get worse before getting any better. But, this is pathetic, PSU could only raise $22,000 to help support the victims. Really? Only $22,000 from 107,000 fans. It feels as if PSU isn’t really sorry for what happened. Also, PSU students still stand behind Joe Pa, why? He concealed info that could have had Jerry locked up A LONG time ago, and could have saved many victims. PSU is not sorry for the victims. This is seriously pathetic. </p>

<p>PSU’s entire football program is in shambles; my friend and I were athletically recruited to play football for PSU. And, there is no way in hell would I even step foot on that campus. I’d rather die a thousand slow painful deaths, than ever be associated with PSU.</p>

<p>[The</a> School Philly - Letter From an OSU Fan to Penn State Fans](<a href=“http://theschoolphilly.com/2011/11/09/letter-from-an-osu-fan-to-penn-state-fans/]The”>http://theschoolphilly.com/2011/11/09/letter-from-an-osu-fan-to-penn-state-fans/)</p>

<p>Stanford, I don’t think you have all the facts about the fund raising that Penn State Alumni are doing for the cause (helping victims)…read this:</p>

<p>[Proud</a> to be a Penn Stater raises more than $98K in 27 hours - The Daily Collegian Online](<a href=“http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2011/11/11/proud_to_be_a_penn_stater_raises_more_than_98k_in_27_hours.aspx]Proud”>http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2011/11/11/proud_to_be_a_penn_stater_raises_more_than_98k_in_27_hours.aspx)</p>

<p>Also, as for you’re opinion of all of us, this is basic bigotry…you take the opinions of a few, and assume the entire group has the same opinions…its the same as being a racist…</p>

<p>This is an awesome post from one of the other threads, I suggest everyone read it. Props to Neonzeus:</p>

<p>"Some of you are assuming that Penn State students and alumni see things the same way that you do or that there is a consensus about why they were in the streets of Happy Valley.</p>

<p>It doesn’t mean that students support child abuse just because they don’t think firing Joe Paterno (by telephone after 40+ years) was the right level of discipline. He was not the molester. All he had to go on was hearsay that it’s acknowledged he immediately passed along for investigation and referral to authorities by the school, including the chief of the Penn State police. He may have believed there was a confidential investigation by the police as a result of this information. If you’ve ever worked on confidential investigations, you’d know that the results are more often not shared. </p>

<p>If students don’t do what you suggest, it doesn’t mean that the students believe that the entire football program or school has a culture that lets an evil man engage in this behavior. How many people did he work with, besides Joe Patero – students, his charities, and his co-workers? How many other people “should have known” that aren’t being taken to Hanging Hill this week?</p>

<p>This is the same type of guilt by association that torments parents of children who commit crimes, roommates of the Virginia Tech shooter, jurors in an unpopular case, etc. You’re fortunate if you get through life without ever being in the wrong place at the wrong time or knowing the wrong person, and if you’ve missed being branded with guilt by association. </p>

<p>Joe Paterno and the football program at PSU are institutions not because football takes precedence over academics, but because they have earned love and respect. Look at Joe Paterno’s record as a man, including his leadership of thousands of young men, graduation rate, integration in the 60s, lack of recruiting violations, millions of dollars he has donated to the school, the library and other programs, etc. and tell me that he’s the kind of man who would have protected his football program over children. </p>

<p>He doesn’t live in a big house…he lives in the original home he and his wife purchased when football coaches were not stars. He walked the campus and talked to kids for decades. He has disciplined his players for 40+ years for violations of the law or team rules, and is not a man who sweeps things under the rug. He’s not one of those coaches known for little or big violations of recruiting rules. He’s always been a standup guy. It’s completely improbable to anyone who knows anything about him, that this outstanding man would ever have knowingly protected a child molester within the football program. </p>

<p>We haven’t heard from the defense yet, so Hanging Hill is certainly premature. Last time I checked we’re in America.</p>

<p>Again, just because the students aren’t marching against child abuse, doesn’t mean they support it. Just because students go to a football game, doesn’t mean that students support child abuse. Geez."</p>

<p>Joe Paterno is being singled out because he was the one with the most power, yet did nothing beyond the bare minimum legally required. Remember the Paterno quote “You have to perform at a consistently higher level than others. That’s the mark of a true professional." Well no one is seeing anything like that in any actions here taken by Paterno. And I would not hold my breath on waiting for a defense. JoePa has lawyered up and we will probably not be hearing from him anytime soon.</p>

<p>Well said Duke - you obviously are very intelligent, unfortunately most of America listens to what ESPN has to tell them instead of looking at the real picture. I don’t see anyone screaming that Sandusky is out on bail and of the horrendous acts he allegedly committed. They just want to sell newspapers and big names are what sells. Also, what happened to actual reporting these days? ESPN coverage included such commentary as calling students morons when at that time all they were doing was chanting. They were upset with the way the Board of Trustees had conducted itself and were not defending child abuse.</p>

<p>Oops sorry Duke - you were quoting someone else - you still are intelligent for bringing it to our attention!</p>

<p>

Hearsay? The grad assistant told Paterno that he saw Sandusky sodomizing a 10 year old. Paterno’s excuse is he just heard 2nd hand and therefore couldn’t do anything other than mention it to the AD? Paterno should be ashamed along with anyone that thinks this kind of moral leadership is acceptable.</p>

<p>Authorities? I thought he passed it on to one person…the Athletic Director. Lets not forget who is the dog and who is the tail in PSU football. Paterno was in charge of that program. For all practical purposes the AD worked for Paterno and even the president of PSU did not have the nerve/authority to fire or remove Paterno. For Paterno to tell the AD was like a parent telling his child something without ALSO telling him what he wanted done with that info.</p>

<p>I’d be very careful of trying to put PSU lipstick on this pig until after all the facts have been investigated by some authority other than PSU. Their credibility in regards to the football program and Paterno is currently non-existent.</p>

<p>aglages,</p>

<p>Regarding your point on hearsay, if you do a quick google search on “incorrect eyewitness accounts” you will find, surprisingly, that incorrect eyewitness accounts have been identified as the leading cause of wrongful convictions. It’s very interesting reading.</p>

<p>As for the issue of Paterno reporting the information to only one person, what were Penn State’s procedures at that time? Do you know them? I know many organizations, including the school district where my wife teaches, have very specific guidelines. You are to report your suspicions to your immediate supervisor and then let it go. No further talking about it, no rogue investigation, no approaching the accused. You run the risk of fouling up the investigation by tipping off the suspect. That policy is made very clear and mentioned a few times in the handbook. Violating it is cause for dismissal.</p>

<p>I have read opinions from Penn State insiders that it is a myth that Paterno controlled absolutely everything in the department. Can you say with certainty how it was? If Paterno reported it to Curley and encouraged him to bury it, don’t you think that it will come out in the investigation? You think the now-charged Curley will go to jail to protect Paterno?</p>

<p>Could you be correct on all of your claims? Sure. But at this time there’s no chance you can be 100% certain you are correct and have all of the pertinent information. </p>

<p>Why don’t we use our energies to make sure the investigation is comprehensive and allow our law enforcement agencies and legal system to do their jobs. This rush to judgment does no good and has the capacity to ruin lives of those who are not guilty.</p>

<p>It’s funny that you warn people not to “put PSU lipstick on the pig until after all of the facts have been investigated” but you seem to have made your judgment already. That hardly seems fair.</p>

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<p>Right!!! Tipping off the suspect!! Sure, if it involves stealing paper from the copier. But child molestation? </p>

<p>Anyway, I am sure that every institution in the nation will rewrite their rules to ensure that vile things like this never happen, and, in fact, to punish anyone that does not immediately report it to an outside agency.</p>

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Exactly correct.
I am curious whether ubujim knows what a mandatory reporter is? Let’s give hin/her a clue: Suppose a child shows up in the emergency room of a hospital with injuries that might be consistent with child abuse. Should the doctor assume that because s/he did not see the abuse actually occur that his opinion/testimony may be hearsay and “that incorrect eyewitness accounts have been identified as the leading cause of wrongful convictions”? Should they not say anything because “You run the risk of fouling up the investigation by tipping off the suspect”? The answer to BOTH of these questions is that the police are notified immediately…they conduct the investigation…and a serious attempt is made to prevent any further harm to the child/victim. How some local yokel school system protects it’s employees has almost nothing to do with what is morally right and what Paterno SHOULD have done to prevent any more children from being molested.</p>

<p>@Duke26</p>

<p>Yes, we’re in America. But, the “innocent until proven guilty” doesn’t really hold true, for example everyone believed Casey Anthony killed her daughter, but a jury didn’t. Yet, she is antagonized and viewed as the devil, even though she was found innocent. </p>

<p>Joe Paterno knew about Sandusky’s actions, yet he still didn’t call authorities? He could have saved many victims from the hands of Sandusky. Joe Pa knew exactly what he was doing, and I am glad he was shown the door. </p>

<p>If PSU really cared about the victims, then they should have given all the money from the game against Nebraska to the kids. They should have donated the money they made from ticket sales, merchandise, and T.V. contact to help those kids. But, guess what? They didn’t, because they don’t give a rat’s ass for those kids, all they care about is their reputation. </p>

<p>I hope Joe Paterno rots in hell with his buddy Jerry Sandusky. He sacrificed his entire career for a child molester, which is disgusting. And, Joe Pa will be remembered for this scandal and not his coaching success. </p>

<p>But PSU and its students are so far up Joe Paterno’s ass, and it’s disgusting. They buy “save Joe Pa posters”, they go to his house and place flowers at his doorstep, they riot because he got fired, and make we love Joe Pa signs. Clearly, that shows how much they care about the victims. Joe Pa is a coward. </p>

<p>During the game, I saw numerous drunk PSU frat boys. Really? After all of this, you’re really going to show up to the game drunk?</p>

<p>What PSU and its students really are doing is showing it’s okay to support a man who covers up for a molester.</p>

<p>

Perhaps you could share some links to those published opinions?

Maybe it will come out in an investigation. Doubtful though. More than likely Curley will plea to a reduced sentence (no jail time) for a perjury charge without a trial and without having to kick Paterno under the bus. Keep in mind we are discussing whether what Paterno did was right…not whether it was illegal. It would seem the state legislature is so outraged by why it was not illegal that they are considering changing the law. Not illegal doesn’t make it right.

^^^
Did you post the above in response to the neonzeus post/opinion…or is this just something that suddenly seemed relevant when someone takes issue with how little JoPa did to help a 10 year that was raped?</p>

<p>aglages,</p>

<p>On one point you’re absolutely right.</p>

<p>I am guilty. </p>

<p>I’m guilty of getting caught up in the minutia of this case without looking into what America companies use child labor in foreign countries.</p>

<p>I’m guilty of paying too much attention to this case compared to all of the other cases that don’t involve high profile people and institutions. </p>

<p>I’m guilty of not looking into what budget cuts are doing to programs that help children and if I find cuts that I feel should not be made, I’m guilty of not contacting my representative to respectfully suggest that perhaps the tax cuts that benefited the wealthiest Americans could be used in a way to help at-risk kids.</p>

<p>So I am guilty and I have already started to try to correct my mistakes. </p>

<p>I am not defending Joe Paterno. If he is found to be in any way responsible, he should be punished. I’m just saying that you, or anyone else that is posting on here, who claim to know exactly what happened is just wrong.</p>

<p>aglages,
Thanks for “giving me a clue” about what a mandatory reporter is. </p>

<p>But, in 2002, when the alleged incident occurred, the statute required an abused child to come directly into contact with a person “in their professional or official capacity” in order for them to be a mandated reporter.</p>

<p>That has since been changed.</p>

<p>@Stanford CS:</p>

<p>Whether you like it or not, you negated your second sentence with your first. I’m not saying I think Sandusky is innocent (I think the testimonies of nine (for now) different boys kind of outweighs anything he has to say), but I do think people should let the facts come out regarding Paterno before saying he should “rot in hell.” It’s statements like these that usually grab the headlines and make news, which is one of America’s true flaws.</p>

<p>As far as “Joe Paterno knew about Sandusky’s actions, yet he still didn’t call authorities?” goes, this is where it’s always nice to be informed. Everyone knows Tim Curley got indicted for perjury, but do you know the other guy? His name is Gary Schultz, FORMER HEAD OF THE CAMPUS POLICE DEPARTMENT. As far as 1998 goes, people should be blaming the District Attorney at the time (can’t remember his name). Unfortunately, he is currently missing (presumed dead, IMO), with his laptop found in a river with searches of how to erase a hard drive, or something of that nature. Why didn’t he choose to prosecute him? If you want to talk about someone who could have prevented more victims, that’s your guy. Like it or not, JoePa was told by a GA and therefore didn’t see it himself. He reported it to his immediate superior, as well as the head of the entire campus police department.</p>

<p>Now to the part that angered me the most: “But PSU and its students are so far up Joe Paterno’s ass, and it’s disgusting. They buy “save Joe Pa posters”, they go to his house and place flowers at his doorstep, they riot because he got fired, and make we love Joe Pa signs. Clearly, that shows how much they care about the victims…What PSU and its students really are doing is showing it’s okay to support a man who covers up for a molester.”</p>

<p>I won’t repeat myself and my opinions regarding the largely positive actions of my fellow students. Please go back and read what I and other current students (as well as some parents of students) have written about this. This quote here just shows your ignorance more than anything.</p>

<p>As far as donating all of the profits from the game to charity, I don’t necessarily think it’s a terrible idea, just not a great one. For one, tons of people (even on this site) have said things along the lines of “money can’t change anything” or “donating to charity does nothing.” Basically, nothing Penn State does will ever be enough for the public. They’ve already done one thing due to media pressure, I don’t think they need to do another. Also, whether people know this or not, the football program here helps fund the countless other varsity programs here (which is why I hate when people think the whole program should get the death sentence), and this was one of the biggest games of the year. Imagine telling the Big Ten Champion field hockey team, the four-time consecutive NC winning women’s volleyball team, and the #1 men’s ice-hockey team that they have to fundraise or pay their ways to their next games. They should not be punished.</p>

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<p>No one has suggested that McQueary should have done his own investigation or that he should have approached Sandusky. What he should have done is make darn sure that the authorities got involved – even if that meant contacting them himself.</p>

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<p>Casey Anthony was found “not guilty”, which is different from “innocent”.</p>