Value of Penn State Degree Getting Tarnished by the Scandal

Parents Forum
1

<p>At least in the short term:</p>

<p>What's</a> value of Penn State diploma now? ? USATODAY.com</p>

<p>Excerpts:</p>

<p>As developments in the scandal continue to filter out, prospective PSU students and their families are pondering the practical side of a PSU degree.</p>

<p>"Our clients are shying away from applying to PSU," says Craig Meister, president of Tactical College Consulting, a college admissions consultancy firm. "Parents and students I work with are concerned about getting a job with a PSU diploma — with images of Joe Paterno and the rioting in mind. In a tough job market, Penn State is no longer a safe bet."</p>

<p>and:</p>

<p>"I've gotten 40-50 emails from fellow alumni on this," says Steve Raz, co-founder and managing partner of Cornerstone Search Group and a 1995 PSU grad, along with his wife. "We're all talking about it."</p>

<p>"It's the saddest thing that could have happened to these kids, but I think the university has done the right thing by letting Paterno go and replacing the university president," Raz goes on to say. "I have three young kids and I would want them to go to PSU, without a question. It was a great time for me and I got a great education."</p>

<p>But Penn State has a long way to go before students and parents will feel comfortable applying, let alone getting a degree, says Garret Kramer, a sports crisis management specialist to college and professional athletes.</p>

<p>"There's a lack of clarity to this whole thing," explains Kramer. "The scandal is awful, but the rush to make a decision was bad. They should have said 'we're shutting down the Nebraska football game and making a thorough investigation on what happened and who was responsible.' "</p>

<p>Until there's a clear path on how to clean this all up, argues Kramer, parents and students won't be able to really trust PSU.</p>

<p>"They can turn this around, but right now it's not only the scandal but the confusion around it."</p>

2

<p>Maybe applicants and alumni should read this…to hold tens of thousands of students responsible for this reprehensible act is insane…and to imagine it would affect the 2012 job hunt is just sad</p>

<p><a href=“The New York Times - Breaking News, US News, World News and Videos”>The New York Times - Breaking News, US News, World News and Videos;

3

<p>This is unfortunate but true. The longterm impact of the Sandusky scandal on Penn State will depend in large part on how the university leadership handles it now. They need to show the world that Penn State is a primarily a good research university, not a football program with a campus attached. There is a culture war going on there internally.</p>

4

<p>^^absolutely…right on target</p>

5

<p>My D came very close to going there and would be a sophomore now. We all loved it when we visited and could feel the energy on campus. </p>

<p>I have to say, at this point, I am very, very relieved that she chose another school. Along with being devastated and angry for the victims in this situation, I would be so sad that her undergrad years would forever be colored by this scandal.</p>

6

<p>My concern, as a parent, would be more for the long term financial implications in terms of liability.</p>

<p>Penn State is already really expensive for a public, and then, they are already spending a great deal of money on PR people and attorneys and internal investigations.</p>

<p>This “scandal” is already costing money which simply will not be allocated for the students education, and that would be my concern, just this type of focus the school will have on protecting itself, at the moment, to the exclusion of the kids who are enrolled.</p>

7

<p>it’s not fair to the students who are already there. </p>

<p>However, one can’t blame prospective students for not wanting to go there with all that baggage when there are so many comparable options all around all over the place. Even in state, U of Pitt is a very competitive choice. For OOS students, why pay near private education tuition for a school within top 50-100 range when there are so many good alternatives. Now that the football allure is gone, at least for a while, there is not even that added appeal. </p>

<p>After all, Penn State ain’t Harvard. Even Harvard will lose students - after all they can go to other upper Ivies…</p>

8

<p>I believe most intelligent people can differentiate the misdeeds of individuals vs. a community of people. If anything the attractiveness of the school for it’s sports team might deter some kids, but heck, UofM hasn’t had a shining season for awhile and kids from far and wide still want to go there. Most people can see the forest through the trees.</p>

9

<p><<most people="" can="" see="" the="" forest="" through="" trees.="">></most></p>

<p>Most. But not all.</p>

10

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<p>Sure, but to use athletic success to burnish the overall image of a school is equally insane. Yet Penn State has done precisely that for many decades. (And they are not alone in this - all the big athletic powerhouses do it.) Now Penn State is paying the price for its folly.</p>

<p>Having the school benefit by basking in the glow of success on the gridiron is a two-edged sword. When the football team was covered in glory the school and alumni were all too happy to accept that as proof of how great the place was. But now that the football program has fallen into shame they are less eager to own that. But the view of some portion of the applicants and the general public is that Penn State owns it both when it’s up and when it’s down - both the glory and the shame.</p>

11

<p>Most can see the forest through the trees but not all – case in point, I’m from Pa. and the issue of going home for Thanksgiving came up with a well educated professional last week; as soon as I said I was headed to Pa., it was a 20 min conversation about the happenings at PSU – which isn’t close to my home and isn’t where I went to school. People will associate this scandal with the PSU name for many years. Yeah, it’s a good research university, but that doesn’t mean that in the next few yrs, if you’re a PSU student going to a job interview, you’re not going to get an interviewer or two who will go on about the handling of the scandal. True that most students feel bad about what happened, didn’t riot etc. but when you’re the one sitting in 1 of the 2 interviews you managed to score, do you really want time wasted talking about something that you have nothing to do with? If I was applying to college now or in the next 1-2 yrs, I’d steer clear. If you’re an alum and want your young kids to go there 10 yrs from now, that’s totally different – like everything else, this will blow over.</p>

12

<p>It’s hilarious how suddenly people associated with Penn State want to disavow the football program. Live by the sword, die by the sword. If you were happy to brag about “our” football team, you have to acknowledge that “our” football team apparently coddled a child rapist for years.</p>

13

<p>The reputation of Penn State always seemed to be constructed on the dubious foundation of football. With the crumbling of that athletic reputation, what academic history is there to fill the void? Their #47 rank on USNWR will probably slide as applications decline.</p>

14

<p>For those of you who think PSU is only about football…ugh. </p>

<p>This Academic History: Current Rankings</p>

<p>U.S. News & World Report America’s Best Colleges 2012 (Undergraduate Programs)
Best National Universities
PENN STATE TIED FOR 45th NATIONALLY
(+2 from last year)
Top 50 Public National Universities
PENN STATE TIED FOR 13th NATIONALLY
(+2 from last year)
Best Undergraduate Business Programs
PENN STATE TIED FOR 20th NATIONALLY
(+3 from last year)
Undergraduate Business Specialties:
Supply Chain Management/Logistics: PENN STATE RANKS 3rd
Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs
PENN STATE TIED FOR 17th NATIONALLY
Undergraduate Engineering Specialities:
Aerospace/Aeronautical/Astronautical: PENN STATE RANKS 10th
Industrial/Manufacturing Engineering: PENN STATE RANKS 4th
(Best Colleges | Find the Best College for You | US News Education, 9/2011)
Aviation Week
Penn State ranks as the top engineering school for aerospace and defense recruitment, according to Aviation Week’s annual Workforce and Young Professionals/Student Study.
(prnewswire.com, 2011)
Diverse: Issues In Higher Education
Nationwide, Penn State rates among the top 100 higher education institutions in African-American, Hispanic and Asian-American undergraduate degree producers.
(Penn State Live, 2011)
Association of Research Libraries
Penn State University Libraries now rank 7th among research libraries in North America, according to the ARL’s library investment index.
(2011)
Gartner, Inc.
Penn State Smeal College of Business has the No. 1 undergraduate and graduate programs in supply chain management in the country, according to technology research firm Gartner, Inc.
(Penn State Live, 2011)
The UTD Top 100 Business School Research Rankings
Penn State Smeal College of Business ranks 15th among all U.S. and international business schools and 4th among publicly supported schools for scholarly research output, according to data from the University of Texas at Dallas.
(Penn State Live, 2011)
Smartmoney Magazine
“Colleges That Help Grads Get Top Salaries”
PENN STATE RANKS 12th NATIONALLY
([Online</a> Investing: Stocks, Personal Finance & Mutual Funds at SmartMoney.com - SmartMoney.com](<a href=“http://www.smartmoney.com%5DOnline”>http://www.smartmoney.com), 2011)
The Best Colleges
Penn State World Campus ranks as No. 1 online institution in Top 25 Online Colleges and Universities.
Penn State World Campus’ online information sciences and technology degrees – undergraduate, graduate and master’s – rank No. 1 nationally in the Top 10 Best Colleges for Online Information Technology Degrees
Penn State World Campus’ iMBA – the online MBA program – ranks No. 9 among the 25 Best Online MBA Degree Programs.
(Penn State Live, 2011)
National Science Foundation, Total S&E Research Expenditure Rankings 2008 (latest)
Penn State rankings in Top 20 by NSF fields and subfields
OVERALL: 11
INDUSTRY: 3
Total Engineering: 3
Aero/Astro-Engineering: 14
Chemical Engineering: 6
Civil Engineering: 17
Electrical Engineering: 3
Materials Engineering: 1
Mechanical Engineering: 4
Total Physical Sciences: 15
Chemistry: 1
Physics: 13
Astronomy: 13
Total Environmental Sciences: 11
Atmospheric: 8
Earth Sciences: 6
Computer Science: 8
Total Life Sciences: 51
Agricultural: 10
Psychology: 1
Total Social Sciences: 14
Political Science: 11
Sociology: 2
Kiplinger’s Personal Finance Magazine
“100 Best Values in Public Colleges”
Value for in-state schools
PENN STATE RANKS 45TH
Value for out-of-state schools
PENN STATE RANKS 46TH
“50 Smart Places to Live”
STATE COLLEGE, PA RANKS 19TH
The Princeton Review
“The Best Northeastern Colleges: 2011 Edition”
INCLUDES PENN STATE
Kaplan/Newsweek
“America’s 25 Hottest Colleges for Entrepreneurs 2005”
INCLUDES PENN STATE
Washington Monthly
Annual College Guide 2009
“Top 10 Best U.S. National Universities”
PENN STATE RANKS 7TH
“College Rankings 2007: What can colleges do for the country?”
PENN STATE RANKS 5TH NATIONALLY
The Economist
Intelligence Unit Survey of Executive Certificate Programs
PENN STATE IN TOP TIER INTERNATIONALLY
(For open and custom programming)
NASDAQ
“Best Center for Entrepreneurship in U.S. 2005”
PENN STATE
Entrepreneur Magazine
“Top U.S. Colleges and Universities for Entrepreneurs 2005”
PENN STATE INCLUDED
Business Week
“Executive Education Programs 2005”
PENN STATE RANKS 8TH NATIONALLY
Design Intelligence 2008 Annual Undergrad Schools Ranking
Landscape Architecture
PENN STATE TIES FOR 1ST NATIONALLY
Architecture
PENN STATE RANKS 9TH NATIONALLY
Journal of Forestry
U.S. and Canadian Accredited Forestry Schools
PENN STATE IN TOP 10
William Randolph Hearst Foundation Intercollegiate Journalism Award program
PENN STATE PLACES:
Overall: 2ND
Writing: 2ND
Broadcast: 4TH
Newsweek
“Top 50 Global Universities”
INCLUDES PENN STATE
National Opinion Research Center Universities Awarding Most Doctorates
PENN STATE RANKS 8TH
National Science Foundation Student Fellowships
PENN STATE RANKS 1ST IN BIG TEN
National Science Foundation University Research
Top Institutions in Total R&D Expenditures (Science and Engineering)
PENN STATE RANKS 9TH
Top Institutions in Federal R&D Expenditures (Science and Engineering)
PENN STATE RANKS 16TH
U.S. Defense Department Contracts and Grants
Top Institutions in Awards for Basic and Applied Research
PENN STATE RANKS 6TH
ISI Essential Science Indicators
Space Science: High Impact U.S. Universities
PENN STATE RANKS 5TH
(Number of citations/paper)
Institute for Scientific Information
Materials Science Faculty Productivity
PENN STATE RANKS FIRST INTERNATIONALLY
(Number of citations)
U.S. News & World Report America’s Best Graduate Schools 2011
Top Schools of Business</p>

<p>SMEAL COLLEGE OF BUSINESS 48TH NATIONALLY
Top Programs in Business</p>

<p>Supply Chain/Logistics
PENN STATE RANKS 7TH
Top Schools of Engineering</p>

<p>COLLEGE OF ENGINEERING TIED FOR 23RD NATIONALLY
Top Programs in Engineering</p>

<p>Biological/Agricultural Engineering
PENN STATE TIED FOR 9TH
Industrial/Manufacturing Engineering
PENN STATE TIED FOR 4TH
Materials
PENN STATE TIED FOR 8TH
Nuclear Engineering
PENN STATE TIED FOR 5TH
Top Schools of Education</p>

<p>COLLEGE OF EDUCATION RANKED 22ND NATIONALLY
Top Programs in Education</p>

<p>Higher Education Administration
PENN STATE RANKS 1ST
Administration/Supervision
PENN STATE RANKS 5TH
Vocational/Technical Education
PENN STATE RANKS 2ND
Counseling and Personnel Services
PENN STATE RANKS 7TH
Education Policy
PENN STATE RANKS 10TH
Top Schools of Law</p>

<p>DICKINSON SCHOOL OF LAW TIED FOR 72ND NATIONALLY
Top Programs in Specific Health Disciplines</p>

<p>Clinical Psychology
PENN STATE TIED FOR 9TH
Nursing
PENN STATE TIED FOR 54TH
Rehabilitation Counseling
PENN STATE RANKS 3RD
Speech-Language Pathology
PENN STATE TIED FOR 25TH
Top Programs in the Social Sciences and Humanities</p>

<p>Economics
PENN STATE RANKS 27TH
English
PENN STATE TIED FOR 29TH
Industrial/Organizational Psychology
PENN STATE RANKS 2ND
Political Science
PENN STATE TIED FOR 28TH
Psychology
PENN STATE TIED FOR 29TH
Industrial and Organizational Psychology
PENN STATE RANKS 2ND
Sociology
PENN STATE TIED FOR 20TH
Sociology of Population
PENN STATE TIED FOR 4TH
Criminology
PENN STATE TIED FOR 5TH
Top Programs in the Sciences</p>

<p>Computer Science
PENN STATE TIED FOR 28TH
Physics
PENN STATE TIED FOR 23RD
Physics Specialties: Cosmology/Relativity/Gravity
PENN STATE RANKS 10TH
Mathematics
PENN STATE TIED FOR 27TH
Statistics
PENN STATE RANKS 20TH
Chemistry
PENN STATE TIED FOR 21ST
Biological Sciences
PENN STATE TIED FOR 42ND
Earth Sciences
PENN STATE RANKS 6TH
Earth Sciences Specialties: Geology
PENN STATE TIED FOR 3RD
Earth Sciences Specialties: Environmental Sciences
PENN STATE TIED FOR 1ST
Earth Sciences Specialities: Paleontology
PENN STATE RANKS 8TH
Earth Sciences Specialties: Geochemistry
PENN STATE RANKS 3RD
Academic Analytics
2006-07 Faculty Scholarly Productivity Index
PENN STATE RANKS 3RD
Individual Disciplines Rankings</p>

<p>Marketing:
PENN STATE RANKS 1ST
Counselor Education:
PENN STATE RANKS 1ST
Higher Education/Higher Education Administration:
PENN STATE RANKS 1ST
Geological and Mining Engineering:
PENN STATE RANKS 1ST
Gender Studies:
PENN STATE RANKS 2ND
Anthropology:
PENN STATE RANKS 2ND
Applied Economics:
PENN STATE RANKS 2ND
Environmental engineering:
PENN STATE RANKS 3RD
Counseling Psychology:
PENN STATE RANKS 4TH
Botany/Plant Biology:
PENN STATE RANKS 5TH
Communication Disorders and Sciences:
PENN STATE RANKS 5TH
Mass Communications/Media Studies:
PENN STATE RANKS 6TH
Astronomy and Astrophysics:
PENN STATE RANKS 6TH
Engineering Mechanics:
PENN STATE RANKS 7TH
Health Promotion:
PENN STATE RANKS 7TH
Philosophy:
PENN STATE RANKS 7TH
Geology/Earth Science:
PENN STATE RANKS 7TH
Information Science/Studies:
PENN STATE RANKS 7TH
Operations Research:
PENN STATE RANKS 8TH
Linguistics:
PENN STATE RANKS 8TH
Criminal Justice and Criminology:
PENN STATE RANKS 8TH
Social Sciences:
PENN STATE RANKS 8TH
Management:
PENN STATE RANKS 9TH
Soil Science:
PENN STATE RANKS 10TH
Accounting:
PENN STATE RANKS 10TH
Engineeering:
PENN STATE RANKS 10TH
“State of the Hospital Industry, 2008 Edition”
Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center
ranked among nation’s Top 100 Hospitals
University Health System Consortium
Inpatient Satisfaction Among Academic Medical Centers
PENN STATE MILTON S. HERSHEY MEDICAL CENTER RANKS 3RD
National Research Corporation
2004-05 Consumer Choice Award
PENN STATE MILTON S. HERSHEY MEDICAL CENTER INCLUDED
“America’s Top Doctors”
Seven Doctors from Hershey Medical Center Included
NCAA Average Graduation Rates Student-Athletes
Division I Institutions: 64%
Penn State Graduation Rate: 83%
(1999-2002 entering class graduating within six years)
NCAA Division I Graduation Success Rate
Eight Penn State Teams Register 100%
Academic All-Big Ten Honorees 2007/08
PENN STATE RANKS 2ND IN CONFERENCE
Teach for America
PENN STATE RANKS 2ND IN STUDENT APPLICATIONS
Peace Corps
Alumni Volunteers
PENN STATE RANKS 16TH NATIONALLY
Penn State Alumni Association
Largest Dues-Paying Alumni Association
165,182 Members
Student-Run Philanthropy
2011 IFC/Panhellenic Dance Marathon (THON) raised $9,563,016.09 for children with cancer and their families.</p>

15

<p>Penn State has a lot more to offer than football, but it has chosen to focus on football as the core of its identity. For as long as I can remember it has been Penn State = Football, Paterno, Paterno, Football, and Paterno. Now with Paterno gone and the football program severely mired in scandal, people can be forgiven for thinking: “Hmm…what’s left there? Anything?”</p>

16

<p>I hardly think PSU attained its #47 USNWR rank based on football. Those familiar with only PSU’s athletic programs are apparently oblivious to PSU’s outstanding academic programs. I’m not saying every program is outstanding but many are. I’m not an alumnus; I’m a Pitt grad so don’t assume bias on my part. I have 2 nephew’s who are graduating from high school this year. Both have applied to PSU. One has 2 brothers and a father who are PSU alumni, he has attended games and, for him, Happy Valley was the only place he applied. Until this month. Now he has flipped and wants to attend Slippery Rock. The wisdom of that decision is what I question. My other nephew applied to PSU because his chosen STEM major is ranked in the top 20 nationally. The recent issue has no bearing on whether he will attend PSU because he selected the school for its academic merits. This is as it should be. What a sad commentary on priorities and attitudes in our country to assume that highly qualified PSU graduates will not be considered for jobs because an ex-football assistant coach is a pedophile. In reality, this will blow over much sooner than many people expect because a new scandal will occur somewhere else, the media will have a new show to put on, and the public’s outrage, indignation, fingerpointing, and self-congratulating ability to read minds, know intents, and condemn an entire community (university) will merely shift to a new target.</p>

17

<p>No, PSU has not chosen to focus on football. Football is one area where PSU has excelled. Those who have not chosen to look beyond PSU’s football program have the perception that football is all that comes out of PSU.</p>

18

<p>I don’t think PSU grads have anything to worry about long term. I understand the concern, but really, I don’t believe an intelligent, accomplished PSU grad is going to be evaluated on the basis of the football program, whether it is a national champion or a scandal-tainted disgrace.</p>

19

<p>Should it still be the nation’s most expensive state flagship?</p>

<p>I can’t see them maintaining prices at anywhere near this level. They’re going to need to work hard to attract good students. Why would a good student choose to pay extra for all that baggage, when there are many other fine choices out there in the same price range?</p>

<p>This is our family’s thinking, and it has nothing to do with football.</p>

20

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<p>No? So did they get good at football and stay good for so long by accident? </p>

<p>You can tell what an institution focuses on by what it honors. Do any Penn State academic professors have larger-than-life-size bronze statues of themselves on campus the way Paterno does?</p>