<p>Anyone believe Penn State's ranking will drop this year because of the scandal? If it does, do you think that its fair? Also when do the U.S news rankings come out any way?</p>
<p>The US News rankings are determined using a disclosed method. It could affect alumni gifts which would have a small effect. The effect may be imperceptible.</p>
<p>The scandal has NOTHING to do with the SCHOOL itself. If it drops, it’s going to have to be because other schools went up, otherwise it’s a joke.</p>
<p>22.5% of the USNWR score comes from a survey of administrators at peer institutions and 5% comes from the level of alumni giving. Obviously, both of these can be affected by the scandal but who knows by how much? The peer administrators will have a good idea of how distracting this might be within the university. </p>
<p>There are several other categories that probably could not be affected, like selectivity, retention rate, faculty resources, etc. But 27.5% of the ranking is based to some degree on perception. The outcome of Sandusky’s trial could play a big role, but probably not in time for this year’s survey.</p>
<p>Let’s hope the ranking is not affected much, if at all. Not good for the people of Pennsylvania or students at Penn State. But if it does go down, that outcome would be fair by definition.</p>
<p>This becomes a very legitimate question for prospective students, with the release of Freeh’s report implicating school culture and administration to the highest levels. I, for one, am not gloating. This is bad news for current and prospective students of PSU. But it’s no longer about football or a few bad apples, because the top administration was involved and because Freeh identifies institutional defects.</p>
<p>Even if the ranking doesn’t move this year, one has to be concerned about the effect over the next few years and beyond. There could be NCAA sanctions, and additional fallout from two decades of ignoring the Clery Act.</p>
<p>SMU received the NCAA “death penalty” in 1987, and whether or not that happens to Penn State, the situations are similar in some respects. SMU’s football program never recovered from that, but I can’t seem to find any information about how the school’s general reputation might (or might not) have suffered. Right now they are ranked 62, but since they were never in the top 50, the USNWR archive sites don’t list SMU. If somebody has access to USNWR rankings from the mid to late 1980s, and SMU is included, that might shed some light on what might happen to Penn State’s ranking. It’s not a perfect analogy because while SMU administration was heavily involved, the violations were all about athletics. At Penn State, some people could go to jail.</p>
<p>The ranking is based on a mostly objective methodology. As a result, the ranking shouldn’t change dramatically after just one year. If the methodology cosidered the morals of University leaders, PSU would be the worst ranked school in the western world. What happened is reprehensible and it is offensive how members of the PSU cult continue to try to defend it.</p>
<p>I suppose I can be considered by you as someone who is in the “Penn State Cult”. Funny, considering that up until two years ago, I had never stepped foot on that campus, watched a Penn State football game or even knew what the heck a Nittany Lion was. My son, after years of hard work, made the decision to attend Penn State. As a mother, I did my due diligence and investigated what I could about the university, visited it and supported my son on his college decision. I was very impressed, and continue to be, with the education and support my son is offered. There are many good people there - many who are guiding my son, teaching my son and looking out for my son while he works hard to shape his future. My son, all the other sons and daughters attending Penn State and so many professors, and other staff haven’t done anything wrong. I am supporting all those people - if that makes me belong to the “Penn State Cult” than I guess I am.</p>
<p>I have never and will never “defend” what happened. I think what most of us are defending is an institution that is more than just the scandal. I would never defend any actions of those that may have caused harm to someone else. In fact, I have spent my career working to protect, assist and support children who have been abused. But, to ignore all the good that is there as well is unfair and wrong. Yes, there needs to be changes - not just at Penn State but at so many universities where this could have happened. Yes, there are those people that need to be punished. But - those that feel the need to condemn an entire university are just plain wrong.</p>
<p>Whether this will affect ranking in the future is yet to be seen. My guess is there may be some impact in the short-term. I do think though that the impact is due more to the outpouring of “hate” all over the Internet as opposed to real concerns over a decline in academics.</p>
<p>ljrfrm:
Well said. As an alum with a junior daughter, I agree.</p>
<p>Ljfrm: i agree, well said. Coming from an alumnus who is going to the Arts Fest tomorrow with a heavy heart.</p>
<p>ljrfrm, Although I respect your viewpoint, I can’t agree that all of the Penn State students are blameless. The 1000 students who rioted after Paterno’s firing brought further shame on their university. While this may be a relatively small percentage of students, the impact was huge.</p>
<p>While there may have been 1000 people downtown that night, there were NOT 1000 students rioting - many personal accounts show that there were very few rioting. In fact, some arrested were not even students. In addition - I don’t hear you commenting on the 10,000 or more students who participated in the candlelight vigil, or those organizing fundraising events for abused and traumatized students, etc. I hear you - there are some bad apples. But those bad apples are few! It does not, and should not, define a whole university of mostly bright, caring and moralistic individuals who had nothing to do with this whole situation. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not minimizing what happened - I’m so sad about it all. But those that are doing their best to bring down the entire University are hurting many innocent individuals - including my son!</p>
<p>ljrfrm, I have to say many Penn State alum , students and parents seem much more concerned with what they perceive as an attack on their university , than with the atrocities committed on campus and the cover up. I can see why Penn State is called a cult culture. How is your son being hurt ljrfrm? Your post is a bit dramatic. Imagine how the parent’s of the victims feel?</p>
<p>I heard that admissions apps were up 8% this year. Whether this is a decrease from what it would have been had there been no scandal, no one can say. The rankings depend on a lot of things, but the peer review tends to be focused on the academic quality of the school. Still, who knows how all this will affect the peer review numbers.</p>
<p>Also, who knows what the stats of this upcoming class and the one after it will be, which will also directly impact admissions. This has definitely given a lot of people a bad feeling about the school and to prospective college students, that can translate in going elsewhere , if the choices are similar without that cloud. It also may not make the list of a number of OOS kids.</p>
<p>For PA kids, it’s Temple, Penn State and Pitt for the big state schools, and for some families that is what is affordable if the kid wants to go away to school. Will a student pick a school like Shippenburg or Clarion over Penn State because of this horrible outrage that occurred? I don;t think so. Though I think Pitt will benefit in applications and may get a very full class this next cycle. But for those kids wanting a big campus atmosphere and the wonderful amenties that the Penn State main campus, along with solid academic opportunities, if you are in state, it’s Penn State. Though the cost is up there even for instate, making some of the southern flagships comparable in cost which could be a factor.</p>
<p>Personally, I think my son crossed it off his list. Maybe, he’ll change his mind in a few years when it’s time to apply, but the lustre is gone for him. </p>
<p>I also thing what happens with the football program will directly affect the admissions stats and the rankings. I don’t think that the university will have any trouble at all filling its seats. It’s who will be sitting in them that might change.</p>
<p>I’ll bet you applications for this coming year will be up again from last year.</p>
<p>ljrfrm, I have to say many Penn State alum , students and parents seem much more concerned with what they perceive as an attack on their university , than with the atrocities committed on campus and the cover up. I can see why Penn State is called a cult culture. How is your son being hurt ljrfrm? Your post is a bit dramatic. Imagine how the parent’s of the victims feel?</p>
<p>It’s interesting how you choose to ignore my point. I am clearly saying what happened is NOT ok, and shouldn’t be ignored. I am obviously upset and concerned about the “atrocities committed on campus and the cover up”. Talk about drama,…“imagine how the parent’s of the victims feel”. Well you know what, I know how they feel. I have worked investigating sexual abuse, and providing support and services to more victims, parents and family than you can imagine. I know the devastation it causes. I know the repercussions. I get it. And do you know anything about my personal life? I don’t think so. So I don’t need your “drama” to take me there. I’m not “more concerned with what I perceive as an attack on the university”. I’m just able to separate the two - and that’s what I try to tell others. There is the act that happened - there is the issue about HOW it happened which needs to rectified and then there is the thousands still there that are trying their best to continue on with their education.</p>
<p>Quote:But those that are doing their best to bring down the entire University are hurting many innocent individuals - including my son!</p>
<p>I reread your comment and it still sounds dramatic. You still did not answer how your son is suffering from the scandal.</p>
<p>This is coming now from a transfer student who will be starting Penn State this fall. When I applied to colleges, the whole scandal was at its peek. I decided to apply to Penn State because of its academic reputation and all the opportunities it could bring in the future. At the end of the process, I had a choice between Binghamton and Penn State. I visited Penn State multiple times and I never forgot how I felt on campus. Although large I felt a sense of community, a sense of knowledge, and a sense of growth. The scandal didn’t even affect my decision. Yes what happened is wrong and those in charge should be punished. I think I speak for most Penn State students when I say the real victims were the children and the monster who committed unspeakable acts against them is now waiting for his sentence. But at the end of the day when you bring everyone at fault to justice, you can’t turn around and blame an entire institution for a crime that only a hand full of people knew about. I know some people will disagree with me but this is what I believed in when I accepted Penn States offer of admissions. I’m speaking now to the prospective students. You can’t let a scandal like this one affect your decision. The school offers so much to you all both academically and socially. Don’t let the deed of one man and the fault of a couple other change your decision. I could now say we are Penn State and I’m proud to say that.</p>
<p><< I reread your comment and it still sounds dramatic. You still did not answer how your son is suffering from the scandal. >></p>
<p>I certainly don’t see how my comments are any more dramatic than any others all around the Internet. If you want to insist they’re dramatic - than fine. I guess I have a flair for drama that I didn’t know I had.</p>
<p>I’m not going to discuss my son’s personal situation here on the Internet - but you’d have to be naive to think that this hasn’t been a difficult year for many students. However, my comment was more geared towards those that are doing their best to try to make Penn State a lesser school, that don’t care about those students that are really having a diffcult time processing and understanding what happened and those people that seem to really just get their pleasure from putting other people down.</p>
<p>ljrfrm, I think you need to separate criticism against the university’s handling of the Sandusky scandal from personal attacks. You obviously feel persecuted. You state your son has been victimized by the scandal . Instead of being angry at people talking about the case perhaps you should try to help your son learn from this tragedy. Another parent on this thread expressed a healthy attitude when he stated:</p>
<p>My son is one of those freshmen, and I have a junior as well. As hard as it is for them, it has been very instructive. Lessons learned? You can lose everything you have based on poor judgement. Your reputation cannot be fixed once it’s damaged. Believe your eyes, not your leaders. Don’t be afraid to stand up for people. Challenge authority. Stick together and take care of those around you. It is a real gut check for people this young, but they are better people for it. I’ll take the current climate of sorrow and introspection and healing over most campus’ oblivious imagined perfection any day.
Well said GreenButton!</p>
<p>I usually don’t participate in Internet conversations - and this time decided to join in. The biggest reason I don’t is because I don’t enjoy having every word picked apart, people assuming they know what I’m thinking, etc. </p>
<p>I really don’t feel “persecuted”. I was simply trying to state that I wish people could separate the issue of what happened at Penn State and the subsequent cover up with Penn State as a whole. My personal opinion is that I hope there is a way to punish those who were involved without punsihing everyone. You have to admit, there are many out there - albeit some just Internet trolls - who are unable to separate the issues and simply don’t want to.</p>
<p>I raised the point that this is affecting many - including students and staff. I stated that these people shouldn’t be “hurt”. Somehow that moved into people saying my son was “suffering”, I am being “persecuted”, etc. There are a lot of students who are concerned now with losing scholarships, losing opportunities, etc. That is a fact. I am personally not worried about this. My son is in an amazing Internship this summer and has a great future ahead of him. But that doesn’t mean he hasn’t had a difficult time this year. As have many others. Don’t read more into what that means. As for lessons - yes - my son has learned many this year. He’s learned about the tragic effects of child abuse, he’s learned how those that commit crimes should ultimately pay, he’s learned so much about media, journalism and their impact of society. He’s also learned about how you can make a difference, raise millions of dollars, protect children by speaking up if you have a concern - and so many other things. I have spent a lot of time talking with my son about all these issues. I think of myself as a good parent - who does use life lessons to teach. I think many of us do this - please don’t assume you know how I parent.</p>
<p>The fact that I spoke up and simply said that the issues of what happend need to be separated from Penn State as a whole - doesn’t mean that I don’t have a healthy attitude, that I’m feeling persecuted or that I’m a parent that doesn’t use this as a learning experience for my cihldren. It is stated that I need to separate “criticism against the university’s handling of the Sandusky scandal from personal attacks”. That is exactly my point - the people who covered this whole this up shoulc be criticized, punished and whatever else can be done…but that is separate from the University as a whole. I’m not “angry” at people talking about the case - I’m simply stating my opinion that those that are attacking the university as a whole are missing the issue. </p>
<p>I’m sorry you don’t feel I have a “healthy” attitude and that I’m angry. Quite the opposite. Again, this is why I steer clear from these types of conversations. I have learned my lesson though. As for your final comment - I too will take this current climate over what was before. I never said otherwise. Good luck to your chldren at Penn State - I hope they have a great year.</p>