<p>With the good fortune to have choices, DD is hopelessly torn among the three after re-visits and a ton of research. She plans to be a liberal arts major, wants an urban environment with a campus setting, loves campus traditions, wants accessible profs, and perhaps most of all NICE welcoming non-materialistic friendly student body. She's friendly and outgoing, but not at all a big drinker/partier. What do you think she should pick and why??</p>
<p>Penn -- great English dept., Kelly Writers House and pretty campus, but she is completely turned off by stories of large crowds of heavy drinking spoiled kids and emphasis on partying 3-4 nights a week to fit it -- seems hard for freshman to find their place? How easy is it to find nice kids and how hard is it to avoid the obnoxious ones that seem to be all over U-tube/Facebook,etc.?
Barnard -- she loves NYC, there are great academics/internships for humanities, access to Columbia's resources, other girls seem friendly, nice campus but you have to "work" at getting any traditional campus experiences, meeting guys at Columbia, etc., plus she worries whether people at Columbia are too serious, aloof, etc.
Tufts -- friendly people, traditional nice campus, she likes Boston, but maybe not the same caliber of academics/internship options as the other two? Or is that not true?
Running out of time to decide?! Thoughts?!!</p>
<p>I would say its really more between Barnard and Penn. I would opt for Penn and here is why: it is big enough to find good groups of people at Penn that she will be comfortable with. I had a couple of friends go there and we not what you will find on the online videos etc. I think it will be challenging enough for her academically (obviously) and she can get that traditional feel she seeks. If its really about her being worried about finding the rights groups at Penn, I would tell her not to judge based on some videos or a short visit. She’ll find who and what she is looking for wherever she goes if she seeks it out, but it sounds like she wants the intellectual challenge and I think Penn would do that for her.</p>
<p>Although I think Tufts is great, I’d have to give the nod to Penn here. As for Barnard, it’s also great, but I think she’d give up a bit too much of the typical college experience she wants.</p>
<p>With the diversity of Penn’s 10,000 undergrads, she will have NO problem finding the types of friends and social life she seeks. There are literally THOUSANDS of Penn undergrads who abstain from the 3-4-night-a-week party scene (probably the majority), and still have quite fulfilling social and extracurricular lives.</p>
<p>Any Columbia/barnard/Penn/tufts folks out there who can shed some more light on DD’s dilemma?<br>
Concerns about Penn: mean, materialistic kids who party too hard, rumors of harsh grading on curve even outside Wharton, and question about class sizes/accessibility of professors
Concerns about Barnard/Columbia; getting traditional campus events where NYC dominates social scene, and ease of getting to meet guys at Columbia
concerns about Tufts:??? relative “prestige” maybe? financial impact of Madoff scandal? class size/quality of English and history depts relative to Penn and Barnard??
help!!!</p>
<p>That’s reassuring to hear – but why is it that what we saw when visiting and in photos on line seems to be the flashier, hard partying crowd? I was surprised to see pictures of huge crowds of kids drinking in the middle of the day at the school sponsored Spring Fling … maybe I’m a naive parent – I’m just wondering about the school’s attitude and what kind of message it sends to prospective students about what the main “vibe” is on campus?? I’m not trying to be puritanical or judgmental – just trying to get a sense of whether this is really the main vibe on campus – why does it seem like that??</p>
<p>Spring Fling is a once-a-year happening–in no way representative of the atmosphere or vibe on campus the rest of the year. Personally, I always thought that it was kind of silly for Penn to schedule Previews during Spring Fling–it really does not give prospective students a good idea of what the campus will be like the rest of the time.</p>
<p>Despite its reputation as the “Social Ivy,” Penn is actually a fairly tame campus compared to real “party” schools, big state universities, etc. The party “vibe” does NOT predominate. And I say this as both an old alum (from DECADES ago) and a frequent current visitor to campus.</p>
<p>I’m very familiar with Tufts, somewhat familiar with Barnard, and slightly acquainted with UPenn. Based upon my knowledge (or lack thereof) with all three schools as well as many other highly selective institutions in the Northeast, I can say with great confidence… a large percentage of students at these fine colleges drink heavily, smoke early and often, and party like its 1999. Your daughter will be exposed to this scene wherever she goes… and whether she chooses to participate, and to what extent, will probably depend upon circumstances largely beyond your control.</p>
<p>Given this predicate, my input is as follows:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If overall institutional prestige is your daughter’s chief concern (and/or your chief concern), most people (myself included) would probably recommend UPenn, for obvious reasons;</p></li>
<li><p>Reported average class size, from lower to higher, would be UPenn, Tufts, Barnard.</p></li>
<li><p>Academic quality of student body, as measured by middle 50% SAT scores, would be UPenn and Tufts close together, and then Barnard.</p></li>
<li><p>Quintessential liberal arts experience and environment (albeit all-female) with particular strength in humanities (including English and history) would be Barnard. Special props to UPenn’s widely respected English program.</p></li>
<li><p>Instruction by professors and not graduate students or teaching assistants would be Barnard (and, perhaps surprisingly, Tufts), and then UPenn.</p></li>
<li><p>The endowments of UPenn and Tufts were hammered by the economic nosedive although both are making a comeback. I don’t know about Barnard. Tufts lost some monies invested with Madoff but not much compared with the losses due to the recession. </p></li>
<li><p>All three are excellent, highly regarded schools. All three have significant diversity in their student bodies (as far as this concept is understood and practiced among highly selective institutions). All three have significant numbers of motivated, quirky, charismatic and intellectual students, and all three have significant numbers of rich, spoiled, arrogant and entitled/elitist students.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>To my way of thinking, two of the most important criteria in making any college selection are comparative financial costs and personal fit. I think that these considerations trump everything else. You may be in the best position to evaluate the first factor while your daughter has the call on the second factor.</p>
<p>Well I could just say “your concerns are unwarranted” and be correct but I’d like to be more helpful than that. Any other more specific info I can give you? :)</p>